[MOVED] Are we in End Times and the Rapture?

ViaCrucis · Oct 24, 2020

Boo24555 said:
are there anymore signs that need to be fulfilled

The answer is:

1) We have been living in the last days for the last two thousand years, since Christ's earthly ministry. The question of "the end times" is a fundamentally loaded term. Do we mean by this the idea that we are living in a dying age that will pass away, and that this is effectively synonymous in meaning with the biblical language of "the last days"? Or do we mean a specific set of time just before the Eschaton? And if we mean that, how do we define it exactly?

2) As far as "the rapture" goes. There's no such thing. Or, more accurately, the modern Dispensationalist idea of "the rapture" that is widely known in the popular consciousness is false. It's false doctrine and unbiblical. There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that Christians will be beamed away into heaven at some point, or that Christians will suddenly vanish, there is no "great disappearing" of Christians that is going to happen a la "The Left Behind" fiction. And such an idea is entirely foreign to the Christian religion, instead it is a purely modern idea that has only ever been believed by a relative minority of Christians. If you had a time machine and went back 250 years and asked Christians about "the rapture" they would all look at you funny, as they wouldn't know what you were talking about. Instead, what Christianity has always taught is that when the Lord Jesus returns in glory the dead will be raised, bodily. That is how Christians have always understood the passage in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, that at Christ's glorious coming, the dead will be raised, and the living will join them in being transformed, and we will dwell with the Lord who has returned here. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 isn't about us going up into heaven, but Jesus coming down to earth. We meet the Lord as He returns, and then we are with the Lord forever not "up there", but down here. World without end.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Oct 24, 2020

Jaxxi said:
We are very close. The bible says " And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Joel 2:28

This was fulfilled two thousand years ago on Pentecost. Acts of the Apostles 2:14-21

-CryptoLutheran

Timtofly · Oct 24, 2020

2 last days and the 3rd is about to start any day now.

The 4th seal has not happened yet.

Blade · Oct 25, 2020

Boo24555 said:
are there anymore signs that need to be fulfilled

As I read and understand about "caught up".. no never was. Bless everyone for sharing. "Caught up" is in the word. Paul said "we which remain". ....they taught about it in 300-400Ad.. what I saw read some of those scrolls. And even earlier. All this proves is.. it was talked about "Caught up before the great tribulation".

So not here to debate it.. just to answer no.

Dave L · Oct 25, 2020

According to Revelation 20, Satan is loosed to deceive the nations once again. We see this everywhere in the false doctrines plaguing the church. So I think the end is at the doors. Armageddon describes this spiritual battle, not literally since the weapons of our warfare are not carnal.

timothyu · Oct 25, 2020

Dave L said:
Satan is loosed to deceive the nations once again.

Self interest of man vs the will of God which is to serve others.

Dave L · Oct 25, 2020

timothyu said:
Self interest of man vs the will of God which is to serve others.

I can see why they call our times the post-Christian era. I think Satan is now loosed deceiving the nations with lies and diluting the Church with false prophets and doctrines.

timothyu · Oct 25, 2020

Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

'Thy will be done in Earth'

dqhall · Oct 25, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
Exactly and his elect will be called out of the whole world. The Christian faith spread to every nation on Earth a couple hundred years ago.

Christianity is so badly suppressed in some Muslim and totalitarian nations, the Gospel is not preached there.

PaulCyp1 · Oct 25, 2020

Individuals have been claiming we are in the end times ever since the creation of Protestantism. What Jesus told us is that no-one would know the time, that it would come "like a thief in the night", which means (1) that we should always be prepared, and (2) that there is no point in making predictions.

Lost4words · Oct 25, 2020

Boo24555 said:
are there anymore signs that need to be fulfilled

Yes, next doors Rottweiler putting lipstick on. That would be 'the' sign of end times as far as i would be concerned!

Redwingfan9 · Oct 25, 2020

dqhall said:
Christianity is so badly suppressed in some Muslim and totalitarian nations, the Gospel is not preached there.

In nearly all of these places there has been a historic group of Christians. Particularly in Palestine, Iraq and Syria. While there may not be Christians in some of these places today, there have been Christians in these areas at times over the last few centuries, including missionaries from Europe.

timothyu · Oct 25, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
Particularly in Palestine, Iraq and Syria.

Don't forget Constantinople

spacetrain31 · Oct 25, 2020

If we aren't already in end times, events and prophecies are being prepared that are quickly leading us down that path. The "Great Reset" or New World Order is right around the corner, and the UN wants to implement it by 2030.

The Prepping of Society for the Antichrist — Jonathan Brentner

Jamdoc · Oct 25, 2020

Boo24555 said:
are there anymore signs that need to be fulfilled

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 events have to happen before Jesus can return and the rapture (which Paul connects here, as happening at the same time, not to be mistaken for the Revelation 19 event where Jesus comes WITH the saints after the wedding supper of the lamb. The return we look for is when He is in the clouds, having come FOR His elect, before the wedding supper of the lamb and before the wrath of God. Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 14:14-20 give 2 views of it)
1. A great falling away/apostasy, that might be happening right now, especially with people being locked down and churches closing and being unable to gather and worship.
2. The abomination of desolation, which is also the supersign that Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. That is what Paul means by the man of sin being revealed, declaring himself to be God.

After that.. it's imminent and can happen at any time.

Jamdoc · Oct 25, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
We've been in the last days since Jesus rose from the dead. Odds of Christ returning in our lifetime are essentially zero. He will return victorious when the Great Commission is fulfilled and all of his elect are saved.

Revelation 14:6
WE will not accomplish the great commission 100%.
In the end it will be God that does it all. Not man. Not the Church. Not that we shouldn't do our best effort as it is commanded of us, but despite our best efforts, we will fall short.

Jamdoc · Oct 25, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
The answer is:

1) We have been living in the last days for the last two thousand years, since Christ's earthly ministry. The question of "the end times" is a fundamentally loaded term. Do we mean by this the idea that we are living in a dying age that will pass away, and that this is effectively synonymous in meaning with the biblical language of "the last days"? Or do we mean a specific set of time just before the Eschaton? And if we mean that, how do we define it exactly?

2) As far as "the rapture" goes. There's no such thing. Or, more accurately, the modern Dispensationalist idea of "the rapture" that is widely known in the popular consciousness is false. It's false doctrine and unbiblical. There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that Christians will be beamed away into heaven at some point, or that Christians will suddenly vanish, there is no "great disappearing" of Christians that is going to happen a la "The Left Behind" fiction. And such an idea is entirely foreign to the Christian religion, instead it is a purely modern idea that has only ever been believed by a relative minority of Christians. If you had a time machine and went back 250 years and asked Christians about "the rapture" they would all look at you funny, as they wouldn't know what you were talking about. Instead, what Christianity has always taught is that when the Lord Jesus returns in glory the dead will be raised, bodily. That is how Christians have always understood the passage in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, that at Christ's glorious coming, the dead will be raised, and the living will join them in being transformed, and we will dwell with the Lord who has returned here. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 isn't about us going up into heaven, but Jesus coming down to earth. We meet the Lord as He returns, and then we are with the Lord forever not "up there", but down here. World without end.

-CryptoLutheran

Isaiah 26:19-21

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

So yes, it is a bodily resurrection, and it is at the coming of Christ, but it is also being taken to a place of safety from God's wrath.
When does God's wrath begin?
2 parallels of it
Revelation 6:17
Revelation 14:19-20
both views are right after Jesus comes in the clouds.

Redwingfan9 · Oct 25, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Revelation 14:6
WE will not accomplish the great commission 100%.
In the end it will be God that does it all. Not man. Not the Church. Not that we shouldn't do our best effort as it is commanded of us, but despite our best efforts, we will fall short.

The Great Commission is fulfilled by God. He calls his sheep to salvation, he changes hearts, he saves his elect. We go to where the Holy Spirit leads us to share the gospel but make no mistake it is God who saves not us.

Jamdoc · Oct 25, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
The Great Commission is fulfilled by God. He calls his sheep to salvation, he changes hearts, he saves his elect. We go to where the Holy Spirit leads us to share the gospel but make no mistake it is God who saves not us.

I'm just saying that it's not a thing of the tribulations won't begin until the church has evangelized the whole world and all people. Those events can start while there's still some uncontacted tribes in the Amazon and whatnot that we don't reach, an Angel will finish the job despite our best efforts so yeah, global evangelism isn't a requirement before end times events occur.

Redwingfan9 · Oct 25, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I'm just saying that it's not a thing of the tribulations won't begin until the church has evangelized the whole world and all people. Those events can start while there's still some uncontacted tribes in the Amazon and whatnot that we don't reach, an Angel will finish the job despite our best efforts so yeah, global evangelism isn't a requirement before end times events occur.

The Great Commission will be fulfilled. Every single person whom Jesus died for will be saved before he returns and ends this world.

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