Is Sabbath a shadow?

pasifika said:

There is a difference between mans love and Gods love..we are to love one another as Jesus ( God) loves us...(Godly love)

Click to expand...

And how do we do that exactly? Do you love God by taking his name in vain or your neighbor by stealing from them? What do you think these scriptures mean *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; John 14:15; John 15:10? Kind of been here before haven't we. Questions but never any answers.

LoveGodsWord said:

As posted earlier no one loves God or their fellow man by knowingly breaking any one of Gods' 10 commandments. What do you think these scriptures mean *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8- 12; Romans 3:31; John 14:15; John 15:10?

Click to expand...

Under the old covenant (law) No flesh is justified...Romans 3:20..so you are pushing a law that brings death instead of life..

Yes Matthew 22, Romans 13, Is about Love..you don’t understand what loves means, is that what you’re asking?

Saint Steven said:

Right.
There is a difference between, "the law" and God's law.

Romans 7:22
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 8:7
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Click to expand...

Romans 8:1-4
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

John 8:31-36
[31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

1 John 3:6-10
[6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Too many scriptures... need more scripture?

LoveGodsWord said:

And how do we do that exactly? Do you love God by taking his name in vain or your neighbor by stealing from them? What do you think these scriptures mean *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; John 14:15; John 15:10? Kind of been here before haven't we. Questions but never any answers.

Click to expand...

We love God by loving His children..you don’t have to go to the 10 commandments to show people love because love comes from a pure heart (inside you) 1Timothy 1:5..The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart, a good conscience and a sincere faith...

Seek those and you will find love and demonstrate it to others...

HARK! said:

You can find a better understanding of this subject here:

Paul Teaches from the TaNaK: Romans 4

Click to expand...

Thanks but I have the bible..and the Holy Spirit to teach me everything...

pasifika said:

We love God by loving His children..you don’t have to go to the 10 commandments to show people love because love comes from a pure heart (inside you) 1Timothy 1:5..The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart, a good conscience and a sincere faith... Seek those and you will find love and demonstrate it to others...

Click to expand...

I prefer what the bible says...

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

How do we love God and our fellow man dear friend? Do you love God by taking his name in vain or do we love our neighbor by stealing from them?

What do you think these scriptures mean *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; John 14:15; John 15:10?

Something to pray about.

pasifika said:

Thanks but I have the bible..and the Holy Spirit to teach me everything...

Click to expand...

Does the Holy Spirit teach us to break God's commandments?

W2L said:

Is OT Sabbath a shadow? If so, how is it a shadow and how is Christ the real thing?


Colossians 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Click to expand...

Absolutely not.

pasifika said:

Love your neighbour uphold the law of God...Not under the old covenant commandments (10)

Click to expand...

John the Apostle wrote this:
“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” 1 John 5:2, 3,

What are the commandments of God? Found in Exodus 20

Telling God you love Him but not obeying is not showing God your love.

Jesus said He did not come to destroy Gods law but instead...

Matthew 5:17–19 17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

There is no Bible scripture doing away with the commandments of God. Jesus wants us to obey because we love Him and obeying is how you show your love.

God Bless

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ As posted earlier no one loves God or their fellow man by knowingly breaking any one of Gods' 10 commandments. What do you think these scriptures mean *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8- 12; Romans 3:31; John 14:15; John 15:10?

Click to expand...

Your response here...

pasifika said:

Under the old covenant (law) No flesh is justified...Romans 3:20..so you are pushing a law that brings death instead of life..

Click to expand...

No one said that they were justified by the law did they? If no one has said we are justified by the law then what is your argument here?

pasifika said:

Yes Matthew 22, Romans 13, Is about Love..you don’t understand what loves means, is that what you’re asking?

Click to expand...

Absolutely all those scriptures posted to you are about love to God and our neighbor but my question was not what are these scriptures about but what do they mean. That is how is love expressed?

Here it may help if we post the scriptures and answer my own questions through the scriptures...

LOVE is EXPRESSED through God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) as JESUS says;

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

and again;

JAMES 2:8-12 [8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) is the fruit of faith and it is through faith dear that works by a new heart to LOVE that RIGHTEOUSNESS and LOVE is expressed to God and our fellow man.

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

and is why JESUS says;

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

and why JOHN says;

2 JOHN 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

and again here;

1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS [3], FOR THE IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

and is why it is written;

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:6 WHOSOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:18 [18] We know that WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], FOR NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST BEFORE GOD BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

and why JESUS says;

JOHN 14:15 [15] IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

.............

Now if LOVE is the very expression of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) are the very definition of what RIGHTEOUSNESS is *PSALMS 119:172, and to break any one of God's 10 commandments is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. How can you LOVE GOD and your NEIGHBOR as yourself, if we have no LOVE and break God's Commandments which ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG *MATTHEW 22:36-40?

Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE from the INSIDE OUT we are only like dead mans bones and all we can do without JESUS is SIN *1 JOHN 3:4.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbor...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

Because JESUS says...ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS *Matthew 22:35-40.

Can you see dear friend that Love is expressed by faith through obedience to God's law (10 commandments) it is not separate from Gods' law but is how love is expressed in a new heart that has been freed from sin through God's forgiveness to love and follow him who has called us in love to love another. We do not keep God's law to be saved but because we are saved and love JESUS *John 14:15; John 15:10.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Saint Steven said:

Sin was before the law. Your quote, "where there is no law there is no sin", is followed with the word, "nevertheless". You are ignoring, "... sin was in the world before the law was given..."

Romans 5:13-14
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

Click to expand...

I am not ignoring anything. You are ignoring the very obvious fact that the bible says where there is no law there is no sin!! You are ignoring the obvious conclusion from that!!! God does not punish for our ignorance. Therefore--THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY LAW BEFORE THERE WAS SIN OR CAIN AND ABLE AND NO ONE BEFORE ZION WAS GUILTY OIF SIN!! God destroyed the world in a flood because of sin so to say there was no law before Zion is totally ridiculous!!!

mmksparbud said:

I am not ignoring anything. You are ignoring the very obvious fact that the bible says where there is no law there is no sin!! You are ignoring the obvious conclusion from that!!! God does not punish for our ignorance. Therefore--THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY LAW BEFORE THERE WAS SIN OR CAIN AND ABLE AND NO ONE BEFORE ZION WAS GUILTY OIF SIN!! God destroyed the world in a flood because of sin so to say there was no law before Zion is totally ridiculous!!!

Click to expand...

Yes a lot of people do not realize that before the written Word of God there was the spoken Word of God and that Gods' people had Gods laws and knew about them well before Mt Sinai. Exodus 16 is evidence that Gods people knew about the Sabbath before God gave it and also even God tells us that Abraham kept God's laws in Genesis 26:5. Also, if you do a word search on "sin" it becomes obvious that God's people knew what sin was well before Exodus 20. Many do not want to see these scriptures though or simply do not know they exist because they do not seek to know God's Word for themselves.

God bless sis *Revelation 14:12.

Saint Steven said:

That's a great point. The Sabbath is only required of Israel. Yet these posters are claiming it was required of all humankind. Not true.

Click to expand...

Again and again and again---It was instituted at Creation and anyone who joined the Israelites was to keep the Sabbath---Which is what the Israelites were supposed to be doing----Giving the word of God to the whole world. You've been told this and shown this with countless verses all which you refuse to acknowledge and try to alter to your way of thinking to avoid the obvious=-=----murder, stealing, adultery, covetousness, taking His name in vain---break one you break them all and if you can not enter into heaven by unrepentant sins---why do you signal out one of those 10 to decide it does not apply to you because it is inconvenient? We are not making any claims---we are quoting scripture and doing as Jesus Himself did and all the disciples even long after the resurrection. Give one verse that states we are to keep any other day than the 7th day as a holy, sanctified by God day to worship Him. Not one single person in this world has done so---even the Catholics says so!!

“Prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the Catholic Church alone. The Catholic Church says, by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church” (Thomas Enright, CSSR, President, Redemptorist College [Roman Catholic], Kansas City, MO, Feb. 18, 1884).

LoveGodsWord said:

Yes a lot of people do not realize that before the written Word of God there was the spoken Word of God and that Gods' people had Gods laws and knew about them well before Mt Sinai. Exodus 16 is evidence that Gods people knew about the Sabbath before God gave it and also even God tells us that Abraham kept God's laws in Genesis 26:5. Also, if you do a word search on "sin" it becomes obvious that God's people knew what sin was well before Exodus 20. Many do not want to see these scriptures though or simply do not know they exist because they do not seek to know God's Word for themselves.

God bless sis *Revelation 14:12.

Click to expand...

Happy Sabbath friend! I hope this helps. Being made in His image and likeness says a lot.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

And then....
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

I think we know the rest....

pasifika said:

I think is no longer the 10 commandments in the NT But the two greatest commandments ( Love God and others)...
From these two commandments hangs the law and Prophets..

Revelation 14..is about the same commandments of Love..
Love fulfilled the law...this is linked to Romans11

Click to expand...

pasifika said:

Hello, sorry but when did God ask us (church) to observe Saturday as sabbath, can you quote a NT verse...because you use old covenant sabbath commandment given to the children of Israel in Sinai only..

Click to expand...

Why do you just stop there? Did you not know that most of the NT is quotes from the OT? Do you not know that most of what Jesus is saying is quoting and enlarging mostly from the OT.
Do you not understand that the law is divided into 2 sections and always has been and every Jew knows this from childhood----the 1st 4 commandments are our duty to God, and last 6 is our duty to man. This is what love God and love our fellow man is all about!

HIM said:

Happy Sabbath friend! I hope this helps. Being made in His image and likeness says a lot.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

And then....
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

I think we know the rest....

Click to expand...

Hi brother HIM yes sad as it may seem. We know the rest. All we can do is to plant the seeds and prayerfully leave it with God. Happy Sabbath and God bless