I didn't see the answer to my question on what he fell away from in you post, but if you cannot answer that, I at least thank you for helping me make my point.
Upvote
0
want to talk about OSAS?
- Thread starter returntosender
- Start date
I didn't see the answer to my question on what he fell away from in you post, but if you cannot answer that, I at least thank you for helping me make my point.
Swag365
Well-Known Member
Judas was among one of those that the Father gave to our Lord, and he subsequently perished. You can see that right here in John 17 (ESV):
6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.
Upvote
0
I will answer you with Jesus teaching on the topic which declares the same truth in the parable.
John 6:60-71
On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
precept upon precept, scripture interprets scripture.
Are you familiar with the wheat and the tares ? your logic makes them the same.
Every heard of the parable of the 10 virgins? your logic has them the same.
Every heard of the parable of the 2 foundations ? your logic has them the same with rock and sand.
hope this helps !!!
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Nowhere in scripture does it say that Judas was saved or possessed eternal life. In fact it declares just the opposite. The bible teaches that Judas was the son of perdition from the beginning. He was created for the very purpose and role as the traitor who would betray Jesus. Jesus said of Judas it would of been better off for him to not even been born than to betray the Son of Man.
John 6:63-65
The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. 65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
John 6:70-71
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray Him.)
John 12:4-6
But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray Him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
John 13:10-11
10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." 11 For He knew who was going to betray Him, and that was why He said not every one was clean.
John 17:12
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Matt 26:23-25
23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."
Acts 1:16-19
16 and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17 he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."
18 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Acts 1:24-26
Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
Ps 109:4-8
In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint an evil man to oppose him;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
Upvote
0
You seem to ask all the question and I answer every single one of them
Yet you REFUSE to answer one of my simple questions about the parable.
I just love the irony although scripture calls it something else so I'm being nice.
You have no point from scripture just your own ideas and refuse to engage the text but instead hide behind all your questions but have no answers.
What you are doing is just playing games thinking how clever you are with all the questions you ask but all the while never answering mine. and avoiding them like the plague. That speaks volumes about your inability to defend what you believe, given an apologetic to those who ask.
1 Peter 3:15
but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
hope this helps!!
Last edited:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Did you actually say you answered every single one of them???
Stop it, my sides are splitting.
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
of course you are done since you are incapable of giving a reasoned response to a question. just the opposite of what the bible commands a believer to do when asked,
1 Peter 3:15
but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
oops so much for your beliefs and defending them eh ?
hope this helps!!
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Proverbs 22:21
to show you true and reliable words, so that you can give sound answers to those who sent you?
1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that you have. But respond with gentleness and respect,
Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
2 Timothy 2:25
He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.
hope this helps !!!
Upvote
0
Swag365
Well-Known Member
One of the big problems with OSAS (and Reformed theology generally) is that it turns the Christian believer into a robot. A puppet.
Under that theology, once a person is saved, he is incapable of making a free-will choice to permanently reject our Lord, or to continue following him day after day.
He is basically an automaton controlled by God, yet mysteriously he still sins somehow, even though he is a puppet controlled by God.
The theology makes no sense at all if you just apply a bit of common sense.
Under that theology, once a person is saved, he is incapable of making a free-will choice to permanently reject our Lord, or to continue following him day after day.
He is basically an automaton controlled by God, yet mysteriously he still sins somehow, even though he is a puppet controlled by God.
The theology makes no sense at all if you just apply a bit of common sense.
Upvote
0
I see the simple yes or no question about the SOILS you brought up in the conversation, not me has you stumped. Just admit you cannot give a sound answer and move on there would be no harm in admitting that kenny.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
1an
Newbie
Even those in the best soil can turn away from God.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
Upvote
0
Similar threads
- Poll
