What do you think about speaking in tongues?

JAL

Veteran
Supporter
Oct 16, 2004
10,777
928
Visit site
✟343,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think it's not a real language, not a known human one or an angelic one (which would be impossible).
Given that angels converse, your theory of "non-lingual angels" is entirely bewildering and oxymoronic. It's valuable to us all as a lesson, however - a warning about the incoherent conclusions insidious among those infected with a Platonic metaphysics.

Secondly my theory, mentioned very early in this thread, is that only the initial experience of tongues need be Spirit-inspired, in order to grant the Christian confidence in continually re-using the learned syllables as a private prayer language. By relieving him of the burden of sustaining eloquent prayer, he is more likely to pray over a sick person, for example, for hours and hours at a time. An excellent example of non-eloquent prayer: "As long as Moses held up his hands, the Israelites were winning.".

Your assumption, apparently, is that such syllables-based private edification can't possibly be part of God's strict definition of the gift. But since that assumption cannot be definitively established, it is largely a statement of bias.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

JAL

Veteran
Supporter
Oct 16, 2004
10,777
928
Visit site
✟343,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If you are a fan of Charmed, those who believe in "unknown tongues" probably imagine angels talking like the white lighters here

And? You do realize that some languages in Africa sound like that, right? What's your point?
 
Upvote 0

JAL

Veteran
Supporter
Oct 16, 2004
10,777
928
Visit site
✟343,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Peter spoke in words that were understood.
That wasn't the gift of tongues. That was the gift of prophecy. When the Spirit is inspiring the words of a prophet to convey a message, it makes sense for those words to be proclaimed in the listener's native tongue. How else is he supposed to understand?

In fact the NT defines evangelism as prophetic utterance (see post 179 on another thread, and post 180). The whole point of Pentecost was to establish that definition and precedent for all future generations of Christians but, like most of the important stuff in Scripture, all the Bible scholars (the 'Sola Scriptura' practitioners) completely overlooked it.
 
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
Of course, it's not. It's gibberish. But it cannot be angelic language, and yet that is what charismatics with whom I've spoken seem always to fall back on after all the other theories about what is claimed by them as true tongues have fallen flat.
1). Have you, or do you speak in tongues at all?

2). Where do you suppose modern day tongues comes from in a person?
 
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
Well... when you put it that way... I have to agree. - lol
I'll include the praise language idea as well. @tturt

Seven Different Kinds of Tongues
1)
Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Warfare language - Tongues directly aimed at demonic strongholds
4) Prophetic language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
5) Praise language - Magnifying the Lord in worship tongues
6) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
7) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
Excellent. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
That wasn't the gift of tongues. That was the gift of prophecy. When the Spirit is inspiring the words of a prophet to convey a message, it makes sense for those words to be proclaimed in the listener's native tongue. How else is he supposed to understand?
I disagree it was the gift of prophecy.
Given they didn't understand their own words, from Peter and the apostles' perspectives, their utterances were most certainly in tongues.

Acts2v11Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

The apostles were not addressing the assembled crowd in tongues, they were joyfully praising God and declaring his wonderful works.
When he did stop and reply to the crowd, Peter then addressed them in Greek.
Just like the diaspora during the last few hundred years, the Jews would speak Yiddish among their own community, but German or Polish etc among their host nations. ie. They were bilingual, as were the visitors to Jerusalem.
 
Upvote 0

JAL

Veteran
Supporter
Oct 16, 2004
10,777
928
Visit site
✟343,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I disagree it was the gift of prophecy.
Given they didn't understand their own words, from Peter and the apostles' perspectives, their utterances were most certainly in tongues.

Acts2v11Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

The apostles were not addressing the assembled crowd in tongues, they were joyfully praising God and declaring his wonderful works.
When he did stop and reply to the crowd, Peter then addressed them in Greek.
Just like the diaspora during the last few hundred years, the Jews would speak Yiddish among their own community, but German or Polish etc among their host nations. ie. They were bilingual, as were the visitors to Jerusalem.
(1) Did you read my links in that post?
(2) Paul says that NO ONE understands the gift of tongues (1Cor 14:2). In Acts, EVERYONE understood the languages, obviating the need for an interpreter. NOWHERE in Acts do we find the need for interpreter.
(3) Peter explicitly classified it as a fulfillment of Joel's (inexhaustible) promise of last-days outpourings. Peter took the time to QUOTE JOEL'S PROMISE WORD BY WORD. (Did you catch that?). So this IS WHAT PETER SAID (not just Joel).

"I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters SHALL prophesy"

Did you catch that? The promise does NOT say:

"I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters MIGHT prophesy".

Therefore anyone who hasn't prophesied - I sure haven't - has not partaken of Joel's (inexhaustible) promise. So we all need to continue praying for outpourings.

(4) Paul insisted that the "gift of tongues" is of no service to the immediate public without the gift of interpretation. Clearly he is referring to a logistic distinct from what we find in Acts.
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What do you believe the Apostle is referring to in 1 Corinthians 13:1 ?
Maybe besides known language it could mean the Awe, Reverence, Superiority, Wonder, Authority, etc...... that occurred when men where in the presence of an angel and they were communication Gods message to them. The reaction in most cases was to fall prostrate in fear, wonder, awe ,reverence etc.....

hope this helps !!!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Given that angels converse, your theory of "non-lingual angels" is entirely bewildering and oxymoronic.
It's not an oxymoron in any case, JAL. But the angels are spirits. That shouldn't be in doubt, yet I recall that you wrote, a few posts, ago that angels have physical bodies.

That whopper should end the discussion right now, but the answer to your claim about them talking in a human way is that they can communicate, but obviously not as we do--by pushing air and engaging our tongues and voice boxes, etc. They don't have them.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
That wasn't the gift of tongues. That was the gift of prophecy.
Thousands of listeners to Peter on that occasion heard him, each in his own language! And these were Jews who had come to Jerusalem from all across the Roman Empire.

That isn't just prophesy.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
2). Where do you suppose modern day tongues comes from in a person?
It is a physical and emotional phenomenon.

If Pentecostal pastors can teach people to speak in tongues--which some of them specialize in doing--then you can be sure that at least something that passes for tongues-speaking can be done without a special gifting by the Holy Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
It is a physical and emotional phenomenon.
I spontaneously started speaking in tongues with no help or teaching. I was at home watching a random TV programme which also had no connection to anything.

Countless Christians start speaking in tongues without help from others.
 
Upvote 0

JAL

Veteran
Supporter
Oct 16, 2004
10,777
928
Visit site
✟343,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It's not an oxymoron in any case, JAL. But the angels are spirits. That shouldn't be in doubt, yet I recall that you wrote, a few posts, ago that angels have physical bodies.

That whopper should end the discussion right now, but the answer to your claim about them talking in a human way is that they can communicate, but obviously not as we do--by pushing air and engaging our tongues and voice boxes, etc. They don't have them.
Angels don't HAVE physical bodies like we do. They ARE a physical body (meaning tangibile, not protoplasm/flesh/blood/bones). As acknowledged by several church fathers - so much for your "whopper" theory.

Unless you feel the church fathers said nothing worse discussing.

Really, your comments are generally irrelevant on this topic. You've only been exposed to one indoctrination erected 2,000 years ago and are therefore speaking in complete ignorance of the opposing arguments. I linked you to my thread on the topic but I'm pretty sure you're not going to read it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JAL

Veteran
Supporter
Oct 16, 2004
10,777
928
Visit site
✟343,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thousands of listeners to Peter on that occasion heard him, each in his own language! And these were Jews who had come to Jerusalem from all across the Roman Empire.

That isn't just prophesy.
Your words only reemphasize/prove that it was JUST prophecy.
God wanted to convince us all that evangelism is supposed to be Spirit-inspired speech (prophecy) . The very best way to establish that is supernatural speech - EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE WORDS was Spirit-inspired.

Thanks for proving that it was prophecy alone.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I spontaneously started speaking in tongues with no help or teaching. I was at home watching a random TV programme which also had no connection to anything.

Countless Christians start speaking in tongues without help from others.
Very well, but that doesn't make the experience be something other than an emotional and physical reaction--as I said in my previous post.

Common sense should alert you to the fact when you know that the same thing CAN be taught and then considered genuine by other Pentecostal Christians, charismatics, etc.

Also that most of the people who join the typical Pentecostal congregation wind up speaking in tongues. They don't raise the dead, and very few of them claim to be able to heal cancer, but they all speak in tongues.

Meanwhile almost none of the members of other churches do any of this. If we were talking about a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't be that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Angels don't HAVE physical bodies like we do. They ARE a physical body (meaning tangibile, not protoplasm/flesh/blood/bones). As acknowledged by several church fathers - so much for your "whopper" theory.

LOL, you were the one who stated, unprompted, that spirits have physical bodies, not me.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Absurd. That's like saying, "I participate in a lot of conversations, but I don't know any languages!"
Another fallacious argument.

Its like saying I participate in many conversations but I do not know any language except for English. No oxymoron at all as you made that up.
 
Upvote 0