Is Sabbath a shadow?

clefty · Oct 23, 2020

Bob S said:
You have to mean for the Israelites because the gentiles were never given those laws.

are you NOT grafted in? Joined? adopted into His people Israel?

Bobviously not...as per your fruits

not going in yourself you keep others from doing so...

having heard the holy commandment you have returned to what?...like a what? said Peter...

teaching jots and tittles have been changed...

as if the false witness of the slandering Jews were true...that He "changed the customs Moses delivered" Luke was clear it was not a true witness...

Titus 1:14 is a good warning...

mmksparbud · Oct 23, 2020

clefty said:
even our traffic laws agreed upon by "we the people" to maintain order and peace and efficiency become something else when broken...lol

our constitution the same...obey it and a workable nation continues...we are FREE right?...break that constitution and well...it becomes a ministration of penalty...EVEN DEATH

what do your supposed Christ's commandments which apparently are NOT ON STONE bring IF NOT FOLLOWED? eternal life? hardly...

is WHY He gave these descriptions of Himself His life the Way it was in Heaven to His people at sinai...LIVING ORACLES...for MAN...the MANUFACTURER's default settings...

these descriptions...these words...these sayings...these living oracles...these commandments are NOT an instruction book on HOW TO GET SALVATION

but Israel was saved FIRST and then given an OWNER's MANUAL on how to maintain and maximize what they inherited...

we too receive this His owner's manual to what the LAW enshrines the Promise of adoption and inheritance LIFE not only in this world NOW but forever after...

His death is our guarantee to these inalienable RIGHTS our Creator has GIVEN to us...

Paul was clear we are to establish His Law...as our faith does NOT make it void

to bring other's to Him...just like in the OT Israel was to do...is why "go into ALL...teaching to observe ALL I commanded" because His house is a house of prayer for ALL...like the Sabbath given to ALL...like creation...for ALL...

Whosoever believes that is...hears AND DOES the Will of His Father...

Totally over your head. Just give me the verse that states you can unrepentantly break any commandment and still be saved.

Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Luk_1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Luk_18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Act_1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
1Co_7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Co_14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using

after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col_4:10 Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him

1Th_4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
Tit_1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Go right ahead and break them---any of them. It will not change my mind. Your opinion means didley squat for it is God that sets the rules not you. And you will be on the outside looking in. We are saved by grace----that does in no way do away with the commandments. He doesn't have to save us at all---period. His mercy allows us salvation, His power frees us to be able to keep His laws. It is through Him that we are able---just as Jesus was able through His Father. Your whole life is out of context. That is your choice.

HARK! · Oct 23, 2020

Bob S said:
You have to mean for the Israelites because the gentiles were never given those laws.

YHWH writes his laws on the hearts of his people.

clefty · Oct 23, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Totally over your head. Just give me the verse that states you can unrepentantly break any commandment and still be saved.

Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Luk_1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Luk_18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Act_1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
1Co_7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Co_14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col_4:10 Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him
1Th_4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
Tit_1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Go right ahead and break them---any of them. It will not change my mind. Your opinion means didley squat for it is God that sets the rules not you. And you will be on the outside looking in. We are saved by grace----that does in no way do away with the commandments. He doesn't have to save us at all---period. His mercy allows us salvation, His power frees us to be able to keep His laws. It is through Him that we are able---just as Jesus was able through His Father. Your whole life is out of context. That is your choice.

Ummm...are you meaning this to me?

I am advocating keeping as He kept...

mmksparbud · Oct 23, 2020

clefty said:
Ummm...are you meaning this to me?

I am advocating keeping as He kept...

Sooo sorry!!! That was meant Bob S. Not sure I can fix that.
Tried to fix, can't.

BobRyan · Oct 23, 2020

Bob S said:
You have to mean for the Israelites because the gentiles were never given those laws.

Gentiles singled out for Sabbath keeping Isaiah 56:6-8.

I prefer the Bible.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Assuming the Ten Commandments were "engraved in letters on stone", here's what the Apostle Paul had to say about them. They were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death that has no glory now. The letter kills. Other than that, they were awesome.

No need to assume anything Steve. God's Word tells us that not only were God's ten commandments directly spoken by God to man in Exodus 20:1-17 but that God wrote the ten commandments on two tables of stone *Exodus 32:16

Saint Steven said:
2 Corinthians 3:6-11 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The purpose of Gods 10 commandments in the new covenant has the same role that it had in the old covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS; *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. Sin is defined as he transgression of God's law *1 John 3:4 and not believing God's Word *Romans 14:23 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments (including God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments) once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

2 Corinthians 3:7 called it the ministration of death because all have sinned *Romans 3:23 and the wages of sin is death but the gift of God in the new covenant is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord *Romans 6:23. This is the ministration of the Spirit in the new covenant not written with ink but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart * 2 Corinthians 3:3; Hebrews 8:10-12; Ezekiel 36:25-27. The law therefore is our schoolmaster (teacher) to lead us to Christ that we my be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:23-25. The ministration of the Spirit over death in JESUS Christ in the new covenant is glorious indeed 2 Corinthians 3:7-8 as it is written "There is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." - Romans 8:1-4. The ministration of death and sin is done away under the ministration of the Spirit dear friend. This is good news indeed for those who believe and follow Gods' Word that the "righteousness of God's law might be fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16.

It is the ministration of sin and death that is done away in the Spirit not God's law which leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 8:1-4. Some have Paul contradicting himself when he says "Do we abolish the law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law" - Romans 3:23.

Hope this is helpful.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Ephesians 2:14-16
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace

What are the laws of commandments contained in ordinances?

Ephesians 2:15 την έχθραν εν τη σαρκί αυτού τον νόμον των εντολών εν δόγμασι καταργήσας ίναG τους δύοG κτίση εν εαυτώG εις ένα καινόν άνθρωπον ποιών ειρήνηνG

Ephesians 2:15 the Greek used here for the law (G3551 νόμον nomos) or commandments (G1785 entole εντολών) is in reference to being "contained in ordinances" (G1378 δόγμασιν; dogma)

Note: that the laws and commandments here are "contained in the ordinances or regulations not Gods' 10 commandments"

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1378
δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; a law, civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical: - decree, ordinance.

So Ephesians 2:15 is not a reference to God's 10 commandments being abolished but to the laws in ordinances for forgiveness of sins *Animal sacrifice, Levitical Priesthood and the ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws in the Sanctuary service for remission of sins.

Note the context of Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ, by grace you are saved. Then moving on it is no longer the blood of bulls and goats and sheep that save us... Ephesians 2:13-14 [13], But now in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made near BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. [14], For he is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances (G1378 δόγμασιν; dogma. That is a law that is civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical) for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace.

Your misreading the scriptures application to the ceremonial laws for remission of sins to God's 10 commandments which is not what the scriptures are talking about here.

Saint Steven said:
Hebrews 8:7, 13 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ... 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Indeed. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. No more sin offerings, ceremonial laws in ordinances and Sanctuary laws for remission of sins. We are all made neigh by the blood of Christ *Hebrews 7:1-28; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrew 9:1-28 and Hebrews 10:1-17. It is the book of the old covenant's laws for remission of sins *Exodus 24:7 that are obsolete in the new covenant not Gods' 10 commandments that have the same role in the new covenant they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

Saint Steven said:
John 1:16-17 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Indeed and Jesus continues with his Grace and truth when he says...

Matthew 5:17-20 [17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this helps

clefty · Oct 23, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Sooo sorry!!! That was meant Bob S. Not sure I can fix that.
Tried to fix, can't.

All good...gives me a chance to remind that NAMES do matter...

HalleluYah

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

clefty said:
There is evidence Adam breathed...but none for Eve...are we wrong to assume she did?

They heard Him walking...might we not assume they did too?...despite LACK OF EVIDENCE

Cuz well...ya know...MADE IN HIS IMAGE...to do as He did...

Until they didn’t...and isn’t that where it all went wrong...they rejected Him His ways...claimed it NOT for them...

Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Please dispute these facts with concrete biblical evidence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Based on the premise that no human observed the Sabbath until Exodus chapter 16,
which the Bible fully supports:

- The Ten Commandments were given to the Israelites alone through Moses.
- The Sabbath was observed by the Israelites only. (and those who were with them)
- Moses wrote the Pentateuch before the Israelites went into the promised land and he died.
Note: It was to Moses and the Israelites that God revealed the practice and meaning of the Sabbath.
- The Israelites carried this practice of Sabbath-keeping into the promised land.
- When Christ came, the Jews were observing the Sabbath. (it was part of Judaism)
- When Christ and the Jewish disciples observed the Sabbath it was because they were Jewish.
- In the book of Acts, the gospel began going to the gentiles. Some of the Jews thought
keeping the law of Moses was part of Christianity and the gentiles should comply.
- This led to the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, where this issue was debated
and it was decided that the gentiles were not under law but rather under grace.
- There continued to be on-going problems with Judaizers, which the Apostles were opposed to.
- There is evidence that the believers were meeting on the first day of the week.
- There is no evidence of gentiles observing the Sabbath.
- There is no teaching in the New Testament for gentiles to observe the Sabbath.
- There is no criticism of anyone (Jew or gentile) for not observing the Sabbath in the new testament.
- Failure to observe the Sabbath is not listed as a sin in the new testament.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Sabbatarian Challenge: Show Evidence of Sabbath-keeping Prior to Ex.16

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Who's are they? It was He who wrote them on the mount. Which ones are OK to break and still get into His presence?

Did Cain murder his brother before, or after, the Ten Commandments were given? (before)
Was he breaking the Ten Commandments? (No) It is sin to murder. (yes) You don't have to be under the law that God gave to the Israelites alone to be a murderer. And those murderers who are not under the law are not breaking the Ten Commandments when they murder.

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Do you observe the New Moon festival?

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

mmksparbud said:
The Israelites knew about the Sabbath before it was given at Zion.
Exo 5:5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

There were commandments and statues long before Zion. That is why God said to remember the 7th day---they had spend 400 years Egypt and had to be reminded of it and all the other commandments.

Do you actually believe what you wrote? More holes than Swiss cheese.

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

clefty said:
Paul was clear we are to establish His Law...as our faith does NOT make it void

Was that all he had to say about the law? And do you even understand what he was saying?

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

clefty · Oct 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Please dispute these facts with concrete biblical evidence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Based on the premise that no human observed the Sabbath until Exodus chapter 16,
which the Bible fully supports:

- The Ten Commandments were given to the Israelites alone through Moses.
- The Sabbath was observed by the Israelites only. (and those who were with them)
- Moses wrote the Pentateuch before the Israelites went into the promised land and he died.
Note: It was to Moses and the Israelites that God revealed the practice and meaning of the Sabbath.
- The Israelites carried this practice of Sabbath-keeping into the promised land.
- When Christ came, the Jews were observing the Sabbath. (it was part of Judaism)
- When Christ and the Jewish disciples observed the Sabbath it was because they were Jewish.
- In the book of Acts, the gospel began going to the gentiles. Some of the Jews thought
keeping the law of Moses was part of Christianity and the gentiles should comply.
- This led to the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, where this issue was debated
and it was decided that the gentiles were not under law but rather under grace.
- There continued to be on-going problems with Judaizers, which the Apostles were opposed to.
- There is evidence that the believers were meeting on the first day of the week.
- There is no evidence of gentiles observing the Sabbath.
- There is no teaching in the New Testament for gentiles to observe the Sabbath.
- There is no criticism of anyone (Jew or gentile) for not observing the Sabbath in the new testament.
- Failure to observe the Sabbath is not listed as a sin in the new testament.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Sabbatarian Challenge: Show Evidence of Sabbath-keeping Prior to Ex.16

The Creator saying it was made for man...with NO explanatory commentary added > your silly challenge

I guess it’s about love and faith...

His Love as He loved us...

And faith that we were made IN HIS IMAGE to do as He did...live the faith OF Him Who made us...

Here are they that...ALL and not 9/10ths...

clefty · Oct 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Was that all he had to say about the law? And do you even understand what he was saying?

you think Paul a hypocrite saying one thing but living another?

or saying “establish law” in one letter and then “forget about it” in another?

I also understand people twist him to their destruction...As Peter warned...

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

of course righteousness can NOT be gained...but once it is by Him Who gives us we then wish to you know...live as He did...

Just as Israel was saved first and then given the law...

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

ok...and so now that you graduated do you live CONTRARY to what you were taught? Suddenly all which you were learned is abolished or altered?

Is it not in your uncircumcised heart and Christlike “inner Jew” mind like He said He would place it? Hmmmm...Maybe not...

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

indeed...but again...the law is NOT to become justified...but having been saved by Him it becomes an owner’s manual to what you inherited NOW THAT YOU ARE ADOPTED INTO a family...a citizen of Israel...so to live accordingly...to maintain and maximize that gift of grace it’s salvation...and for others to witness your regeneration and death to former self and now alive in Him AND HIS WAYS

And to lead them to Him...by your teaching them to observe ALL He commanded of you...

Even according to biological law a grafted branch must be of the same family...

can’t graft olive branch into a fig tree or figs into grape vines...ask James

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

clefty said:
The Creator saying it was made for man...with NO explanatory commentary added > your silly challenge

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, NOT man for the Sabbath. But what do you say?

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

clefty said:
you think Paul a hypocrite saying one thing but living another?

or saying “establish law” in one letter and then “forget about it” in another?

I also understand people twist him to their destruction...As Peter warned...

You presented one verse that you clearly do not understand. How many did I present? I can give you a dozen more if that would help.

mmksparbud · Oct 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Here are the facts:

Nowhere before Exodus chapter 16
do we find any biblical evidence of any human:
- observing the sabbath.
- preparing for the sabbath.
- adjusting their plans to account for the sabbath.
- teaching anyone else to observe the sabbath.
- extolling the virtues of the sabbath.
- being criticized for not observing the sabbath.

Please dispute these facts with concrete biblical evidence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Based on the premise that no human observed the Sabbath until Exodus chapter 16,
which the Bible fully supports:

- The Ten Commandments were given to the Israelites alone through Moses.
- The Sabbath was observed by the Israelites only. (and those who were with them)
- Moses wrote the Pentateuch before the Israelites went into the promised land and he died.
Note: It was to Moses and the Israelites that God revealed the practice and meaning of the Sabbath.
- The Israelites carried this practice of Sabbath-keeping into the promised land.
- When Christ came, the Jews were observing the Sabbath. (it was part of Judaism)
- When Christ and the Jewish disciples observed the Sabbath it was because they were Jewish.
- In the book of Acts, the gospel began going to the gentiles. Some of the Jews thought
keeping the law of Moses was part of Christianity and the gentiles should comply.
- This led to the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, where this issue was debated
and it was decided that the gentiles were not under law but rather under grace.
- There continued to be on-going problems with Judaizers, which the Apostles were opposed to.
- There is evidence that the believers were meeting on the first day of the week.
- There is no evidence of gentiles observing the Sabbath.
- There is no teaching in the New Testament for gentiles to observe the Sabbath.
- There is no criticism of anyone (Jew or gentile) for not observing the Sabbath in the new testament.
- Failure to observe the Sabbath is not listed as a sin in the new testament.

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The Sabbatarian Challenge: Show Evidence of Sabbath-keeping Prior to Ex.16

Again: The Sabbath was made Holy and sanctified on the 7th day of creation by God Himself. It obviously was not for God to rest I the word in the original is ceased, He ceased His creating on the 6th day , nor for angels or for Jews and there were none. Jesus said the sabbath was made for man. You think Gold is so stupid as to make a day holy, sanctified and as a memorial to His being the creator of all for man, but not give it to anyo ne until 1,000;s of years later? There is no mention of "Do not kill." Yet it says that Cain sinned---where there is no law there is no sin---so yo0u apparently you believe God is also so unjust as to call something sin but He neglected to tell anyone killing was a sin? There is no mention of thou shalt not commit adultery---however, Joseph says

Gen_39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

So you think Joseph did not understand that adulatory is a sin against God? Again---where there is no law there is no sin. Seriously? You think these people were too stupid to understand what sin is? Where does it say thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet before Zion. Perhaps you need to look up the words-----common sense. I am not interested in your man made traditio0ns. God is not stupid, negligent nor does He inflict punishment for what is not sin and nobody has been told about it. I suppose ypou have to be told when to blow your nose or that you need to pull your pants down when you go to the bathroom----go ahead---report me. I am used to it on these Sabbath threads. There is an appalling lack of thought and common sense given to the simplest of things. WHERE THERE IS NO ,LAW, THERE IS NO SIN--- So then God killed a whole planet for their appalling lack of knowing the law when He had not given it?

mmksparbud · Oct 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Do you actually believe what you wrote? More holes than Swiss cheese.

It's called scriptures---I did not write them. Perhaps you need to acquaint yourself with them a little more thoroughly. The holes are yours.

Is Sabbath a shadow?

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