WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

Ok continuing on a little further showing that God's people all through time from Genesis to Revelation and from the days of JESUS and the Apostles to after the death and resurrection of JESUS and the death of the Apostles all through time to this very present day, have always kept the true "Lord's day" which according to the scriptures is God's 4th commandment Sabbath of God's 10 commandments..

Already started and covered in this thread here...

*First and second century AD Sabbath keepers (linked)
*Third century AD Sabbath keepers (linked)
*Fourth century AD Sabbath keepers (linked)
*Fifth century AD Sabbath keepers (linked)
*Sixth century AD Sabbath keepers (linked)

Lets continue into the seventh century AD...

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Seventh Century A.D.

SCOTLAND AND IRELAND
Professor James C. Moffatt, D.D., Professor of Church History at Princeton, says: It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labour. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of week." "The Church in Scotland," p.140.

SCOTLAND AND IRELAND
"The Celts used a Latin Bible unlike the Vulgate (R.C.) and kept Saturday as a day of rest, with special religious services on Sunday." Flick, "The Rise of Mediaeval Church," p. 237

ROME
Gregory I (A.D. 590-640) wrote against "Roman citizens (who) forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day." "Nicene and Post- Nicene Fathers," Second Series, Vol, XIII, p.13, epist. 1

ROME (POPE GREGORY I,A.D.590 TO 604)
"Gregory, bishop by the grace of God to his well-beloved sons, the Roman citizens: It has come to me that certain men of perverse spirit have disseminated among you things depraved and opposed to the holy faith, so that they forbid anything to be done on the day of the Sabbath. What shall I call them except preachers of anti-Christ?" Epistles, b.13:1

ROME (POPE GREGORY I)
Declared that when anti-Christ should come he would keep Saturday as the Sabbath. "Epistles of Gregory I, "b 13, epist.1. found in "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers."

"Moreover, this same Pope Gregory had issued an official pronouncement against a section of the city of Rome itself because the Christian believers there rested and worshipped on the Sabbath." "Epistles of Gregory I, "b 13, epist.1. found in "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers."

more to come...

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

klutedavid said:
What the scripture tells us or your interpretation of the scripture?

Indeed I am sure the religious teachers of the day said the same thing to JESUS and the Apostles when they also called Jesus of the devil *John 10:20 and his followers a sect *Acts of the Apostles 28:22 and made their plans to silence them. Yet this of course is nothing new as their fathers did the same thing to the prophets *Matthew 23:31 God sent to warn his people according to the old testament scriptures. Jesus and Paul often quoted the scriptures from Isaiah *Isaiah 6:9-10 in that these hearing did not hear and seeing did not see because they closed their eyes and ears to hearing the truth so God could not heal them. Something we should all pray about I guess. Only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.

klutedavid · Oct 23, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed I am sure the religious teachers of the day said the same thing to JESUS and the Apostles when they also called him of the devil and his followers a sect.

According to the scripture, the Pharisees pursued Jesus for breaking the Sabbath. And for claiming equality with God, according to the apostle John. Not so much about any interpretation of the scripture.

The Pharisees pursued the apostles for preaching the Christ. Once again, the interpretation of the scripture was not the issue really.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

klutedavid said:
According to the scripture, the Pharisees pursued Jesus for breaking the Sabbath. And for claiming equality with God, according to the apostle John. Not so much about any interpretation of the scripture. The Pharisees pursued the apostles for preaching the Christ. Once again, the interpretation of the scripture was not the issue really.

Indeed JESUS was the Lord and creator of the Sabbath but they would not hear His words when he taught them how to keep the Sabbath holy as he intended when he made the Sabbath for all mankind at creation *Mark 2:27-28; Genesis 2:1-3 and commanded his people to keep it as a holy day of rest. Those who did not believe and follow his Word did not enter into his rest because of their unbelief and sins *Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-9. This is Gods same warning for us today. God's Sheep hear his voice and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow according to the scriptures *John 10:26-27. Who is the Lord of the Sabbath? *Mark 2:28. People seem to always cry interpretation of the scriptures when the scriptures that are being interpreted point out something that they are doing wrong it seems. Yet Jesus makes things plain when he says "this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." - John 3:19-21

Root of Jesse · Oct 23, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
JESUS did not make Peter "the" leader of the Church. He was one of many.

The leader of the leaders. Just because there's a Prime Minister, does that mean there aren't other ministers?

According to the scripture James was the leader.

Of the Church in Jerusalem, yes. He was the proto-bishop of that see.

The problem how I see it is that I do accept what the bible says.

The problem is that I see it exactly as it reads, not as what I suppose it says. Like the petros/petra argument...

In evidence you will see it shared with you in nearly all my posts but it seems you do not believe these scriptures that are shared with you. These scriptures are God's Words and not my words but Gods'.

I believe God's Words, just not your interpretation of what they say.

In response you deny God's Word with your words that are not God's Word but your words.

No, I affirm God's Word with the authority that tells me what it meant to those who actually heard it. That's the value of having an ancient Church.

So who should be believed. According to the scriptures he who God's sends speaks the Words of God *John 3:34 and you do not provide any.

I provide the authority of Christ's Church headed by Peter, the first Pope.

I know who I believe and follow. For me dear friend, only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.

Of course, you believe your own interpretation of those words. Which is your personal tradition of man. And you haven't shown any Catholic Tradition which breaks the commandments of God...

Many it seems do not understand what the "Church" is according to the scriptures and how God's Word defines God's Church. God's Church according to the scriptures are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

Of course, you have left out a large portion of what God's Word is!

If we are no longer believing and following God's Word we are no longer a part of God's Church. It is God's Word not mine that says "BABYLON" has fallen. God is calling his people out and back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-5; John 4:23-24.

Of course, it does not say Rome has fallen...Which it should, if it was talking about God's Church.

God's Sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. Those that do not hear and do not follow are not His sheep *John 10:25-27

I would say that you are deaf to at least 2/3 of God's Word. The Bible is only part of it.

Root of Jesse · Oct 23, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed until we start talking scripture then all the darkness disappears.

Talk about Scripture, then. Not what you believe it means. That's your personal tradition of men.

Root of Jesse · Oct 23, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed JESUS was the Lord and creator of the Sabbath but they would not hear His words when he taught them how to keep the Sabbath holy as he intended when he made the Sabbath for all mankind at creation *Mark 2:27-28; Genesis 2:1-3 and commanded his people to keep it as a holy day of rest. Those who did not believe and follow his Word did not enter into his rest because of their unbelief *Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-9. This is Gods same warning for us today. God's Sheep hear his voice and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow according to the scriptures *John 10:26-27. Who is the Lord of the Sabbath? *Mark 2:28. People seem to always cry interpretation of the scriptures when the scriptures that are being interpreted point out something that they are doing wrong it seems. Yet Jesus makes things plain when he says "this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God." - John 3:19-21

Jesus broke the Sabbath by gleaning and in numerous other ways. He said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath. So let me ask you...if you see a starving man on the Sabbath, do you get food for him? Give him shelter or water? Isn't that "work" according to the Pharisaic interpretation of the commandment?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

Root of Jesse said:
The leader of the leaders. Just because there's a Prime Minister, does that mean there aren't other ministers?

No one said any differently. You were the one arguing Peter as Prime Minister not me.

Root of Jesse said:
Of the Church in Jerusalem, yes. He was the proto-bishop of that see.

Actually no. James was an Apostles like all the other twelve and the leader in Jerusalem. You have no scripture to say that Peter was a leader in any other jurisdiction so your claims here are simply speculation not based on the scriptures. Although I believe James, Peter, John and Paul were all leaders of the Apostles. The only mention of Leader here is James according to the scriptures not Peter as head of the church. This is evidences in the discussion in regard to circumcision being a requirement for salvation in Acts 15 with James making the final decision.

Root of Jesse said:
The problem is that I see it exactly as it reads, not as what I suppose it says.

And this is where I disagree with you and believe your reading into scripture what the scriptures do not say or teach. A perfect example is this threads OP. You claim Sunday is "the Lords day" but you have to read Sunday into Revelation 1:10 when Sunday is not there and there is no scripture anywhere that links Sunday to being "the Lords day" in the bible.

Root of Jesse said:
Like the petros/petra argument...I believe God's Words, just not your interpretation of what they say.

As I posted earlier my view being that JESUS is the ROCK is because of 1. scripture context and 2. two different Greek words used as well as many other scriptures proving that only JESUS is referred to as being the ROCK and 3. Jesus said the powers of Hell will not prevail against this Rock while, the powers of Hell prevailed over Peter. All these scriptures disagree with you. That said I would also be happy with either interpretation and think the argument is a distraction if you do not understand what the "Church" is according to the scriptures. God's church according to the scriptures are all those who believe and follow God's Word. If someone departs the faith (the truth of the Word of God) they are no longer a part of Gods true church according to the scriptures.

Root of Jesse said:
No, I affirm God's Word with the authority that tells me what it meant to those who actually heard it. That's the value of having an ancient Church.

And yet even this statement is not biblical if it denies the scriptures upon which the church is built. It is not the church we turn to for truth but the Word of God that God's church is built upon through the Spirit of God.

Root of Jesse said:
I provide the authority of Christ's Church headed by Peter, the first Pope.

Yet no where in the bible does it say anywhere that Peter is the first Pope.

Root of Jesse said:
Of course, you believe your own interpretation of those words. Which is your personal tradition of man. And you haven't shown any Catholic Tradition which breaks the commandments of God...

Not really dear friend. Your not telling the truth here or you do not know your church's own teachings. You have been quoted your church's own teachings from the Catholic Catechism that disagrees with your statements and claims about God's 4th commandment Sabbath of the 10 commandments. I quoted you your own Church's teachings and God's Word which are not mine but Gods but it seems you do not believe them. For me dear friend, only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.

LoveGodsWord wrote: If we are no longer believing and following God's Word we are no longer a part of God's Church. It is God's Word not mine that says "BABYLON" has fallen. God is calling his people out and back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-5; John 4:23-24.

Your response here..

Root of Jesse said:
Of course, you have left out a large portion of what God's Word is! Of course, it does not say Rome has fallen...Which it should, if it was talking about God's Church.

Indeed Rome has fallen and departed from God's Word according to the scriptures. Not only that it is Gods' Word that says Babylon the fallen is the mother of harlots (other unfaithful Church's) in Revelation 17:5

LoveGodsWord said: God's Sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. Those that do not hear and do not follow are not His sheep *John 10:25-27

Your response here...

Root of Jesse said:
I would say that you are deaf to at least 2/3 of God's Word.

Really and what would that be? All I am hearing again here dear friend are your words that are yours and not Gods'. Let's talk scripture. Only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow them *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. Thank you for sharing your view though.

May God bless you as you receive his Word[/QUOTE]

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

Root of Jesse said:
Talk about Scripture, then. Not what you believe it means. That's your personal tradition of men.

I have only talked about the scriptures and provided scripture. These are Gods' Words not mine but it seems you do not believe what is being shared with you. In response you post your own words to deny Gods' Word. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandment of God. Yes I am talking about God's 4th commandment that your traditions seek to replace which is not biblical, making of none effect the Word of God. JESUS warns us about this in Matthew 15:3-9. They are the Words of JESUS do you believe them?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 23, 2020

Root of Jesse said:
Jesus broke the Sabbath by gleaning and in numerous other ways. He said that the Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath. So let me ask you...if you see a starving man on the Sabbath, do you get food for him? Give him shelter or water? Isn't that "work" according to the Pharisaic interpretation of the commandment?

If JESUS broke God's anyone of God's 10 commandments including the 4th commandment he could not be sinless and be our prefect sacrifice for sin and all mankind would be lost. Your interpretation of the scriptures here disagrees with Hebrews 4:15; Hebrews 9:28; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 1:18-19. Jesus did not break the Sabbath he was the creator of the Sabbath and taught what was lawful to do on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. He broke the Scribes and Pharisees interpretation of the Sabbath which was not according to God's Word in doing good on the Sabbath. Are you really trying to make JESUS the creator of heaven and earth a sinner now?

Root of Jesse · Oct 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
No one said any differently. You were the one arguing Peter as Prime Minister not me.

And Jesus referenced him as such. Not me.

Actually no. James was an Apostles like all the other twelve and the leader in Jerusalem. You have no scripture to say that Peter was a leader in any other jurisdiction so your claims here are simply speculation not based on the scriptures. Although I believe James, Peter, John and Paul were all leaders of the Apostles. The only mention of Leader here is James according to the scriptures not Peter as head of the church. This is evidences in the discussion in regard to circumcision being a requirement for salvation in Acts 15 with James making the final decision.

Well, as I've told you before, I don't believe in Scripture only. So I don't need to go just by Scripture, but I believe Scripturally that Peter was named head of the group of apostles by Jesus, and Sacred Tradition shows that his successors were the leaders of the Church, too. Since the Bible does not go further than the first generation of Christians, you're severely limiting the context. Scripture shows that Paul had very little contact with the other apostles, so he was not a leader, as such, though he was a prime evangelizer. The Church was not only the Church in Jerusalem. Different apostles went different places and established the Church in different places. They were the local leader, as Peter was in Antioch, and then Rome, and thusly, equal. But Peter was given primacy.

And this is where I disagree with you and believe your reading into scripture what the scriptures do not say or teach. A perfect example is this threads OP. You claim Sunday is "the Lords day" but you have to read Sunday into Revelation 1:10 when Sunday is not there and there is no scripture anywhere that links Sunday to being "the Lords day" in the bible.

As I've been saying, nobody reads Scripture in a vacuum. Everyone reads it in the context of their experiences through life. So you are, technically, not a 'Bible only' believer.

As I posted earlier my view being that JESUS is the ROCK is because of 1. scripture context and 2. two different Greek words used as well as many other scriptures proving that only JESUS is referred to as being the ROCK and 3. Jesus said the powers of Hell will not prevail against this Rock while, the powers of Hell prevailed over Peter. All these scriptures disagree with you. That said I would also be happy with either interpretation and think the argument is a distraction if you do not understand what the "Church" is according to the scriptures. God's church according to the scriptures are all those who believe and follow God's Word. If someone departs the faith (the truth of the Word of God) they are no longer a part of Gods true church according to the scriptures.

As you say yourself...'my view'. So it's not Scriptural, but your interpretation. But the facts show otherwise. Why? Because Sacred Tradition holds that Matthew wrote in Hebrew. We do not have these texts, but his use of Hebrew words show that Peter was 'Kephas', not Petra or Petros. That's a greek translation.
What you do get right is that the powers of hell will not prevail against His Church. That's precisely what it says. But then it says 'what you (Peter/Kephas) open, no one shall shut, what you shut, no one shall open.' And later Jesus gives him the power to bind and loose. I also agree that the Church is those who believe and follow His Word. I disagree with you, though on what, exactly, is God's Word.

And yet even this statement is not biblical if it denies the scriptures upon which the church is built. It is not the church we turn to for truth but the Word of God that God's church is built upon through the Spirit of God.

It is Scriptural when you understand, in context, what the power to bind and loose is. That's the authority of the apostles and those they appointed.

Yet no where in the bible does it say anywhere that Peter is the first Pope.

Yeah, the word pope was never used. Neither were 'bible' or 'Trinity', and yet both of these are things we believe in.

Not really dear friend. Your not telling the truth here or you do not know your church's own teachings. You have been quoted your church's own teachings from the Catholic Catechism that disagrees with your statements and claims about God's 4th commandment Sabbath of the 10 commandments. I quoted you your own Church's teachings and God's Word which are not mine but Gods but it seems you do not believe them. For me dear friend, only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.

Your response here..

You have yet to show how we are breaking the fourth commandment...that's the one about honoring your father and mother? Your numbering, which is not biblical, is different.

Indeed Rome has fallen and departed from God's Word according to the scriptures. Not only that it is Gods' Word that says Babylon the fallen is the mother of harlots (other unfaithful Church's) in Revelation 17:5

Your response here...

Nowhere in Scripture does it say Rome has fallen...Your interpretation is that Babylon=Rome.

Really and what would that be? All I am hearing again here dear friend are your words that are yours and not Gods'. Let's talk scripture. Only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow them *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. Thank you for sharing your view though.

May God bless you as you receive his Word

[/QUOTE]
The authority to bind and loose, which is given to the Pope and bishops and Sacred Tradition, which gave you the Bible.

Root of Jesse · Oct 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
If JESUS broke God's anyone of God's 10 commandments including the 4th commandment he could not be sinless and be our prefect sacrifice for sin and all mankind would be lost. Your interpretation of the scriptures here disagrees with Hebrews 4:15; Hebrews 9:28; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 1:18-19. Jesus did not break the Sabbath he was the creator of the Sabbath and taught what was lawful to do on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. He broke the Scribes and Pharisees interpretation of the Sabbath which was not according to God's Word in doing good on the Sabbath. Are you really trying to make JESUS the creator of heaven and earth a sinner now?

Of course he could. Are you trying to tell me Jesus and the apostles weren't gleaning from the wheat in the field? Or was it just that he allowed his apostles to do so because they were hungry, and the Pharisees criticized them? Either way, it seems Jesus gave us permission to work on the Sabbath if need be.

Root of Jesse · Oct 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
I have only talked about the scriptures and provided scripture. These are Gods' Words not mine but it seems you do not believe what is being shared with you. In response you post your own words to deny Gods' Word. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandment of God. Yes I am talking about God's 4th commandment that your traditions seek to replace which is not biblical, making of none effect the Word of God. JESUS warns us about this in Matthew 15:3-9. They are the Words of JESUS do you believe them?

I do not believe you have the authority to interpret Scripture. Only the Church can do that.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 25, 2020

Root of Jesse said:
And Jesus referenced him as such. Not me.

No he didn't. Please provide the scripture stating JESUS is saying Peter is the leader of the Apostles. JESUS said no such thing.

Root of Jesse said:
Well, as I've told you before, I don't believe in Scripture only. So I don't need to go just by Scripture, but I believe Scripturally that Peter was named head of the group of apostles by Jesus, and Sacred Tradition shows that his successors were the leaders of the Church, too. Since the Bible does not go further than the first generation of Christians, you're severely limiting the context. Scripture shows that Paul had very little contact with the other apostles, so he was not a leader, as such, though he was a prime evangelizer. The Church was not only the Church in Jerusalem. Different apostles went different places and established the Church in different places. They were the local leader, as Peter was in Antioch, and then Rome, and thusly, equal. But Peter was given primacy.

This is the difference between us. You believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. I believe that God's people believe and follow Gods' Word and not the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS warns us about doing this in Matthew 15:3-9. Nothing that you have posted here is biblical so we will have to agree to disagree because for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts if the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9.

LGW wrote: And this is where I disagree with you and believe your reading into scripture what the scriptures do not say or teach. A perfect example is this threads OP. You claim Sunday is "the Lords day" but you have to read Sunday into Revelation 1:10 when Sunday is not there and there is no scripture anywhere that links Sunday to being "the Lords day" in the bible.

Your response here...

Root of Jesse said:
As I've been saying, nobody reads Scripture in a vacuum. Everyone reads it in the context of their experiences through life. So you are, technically, not a 'Bible only' believer.

Then don't read the scriptures in vacuum and read them in context and address the OP and prove from the scriptures that "the Lords day" is Sunday. There is no scripture but it is Gods' Word not mine that says that JESUS is Lord of the Sabbath day *Matthew 12:8.

Root of Jesse said:
As you say yourself...'my view'. So it's not Scriptural, but your interpretation.

My view is based on the scriptures which have already been provided. They are God's Word not mine and they disagree with you. That said as posted earlier I would also be happy with either interpretation and think your argument is a distraction if you do not understand what the "Church" is according to the scriptures. God's church according to the scriptures are all those who believe and follow God's Word. If someone departs the faith (the truth of the Word of God) they are no longer a part of Gods true church according to the scriptures.

Root of Jesse said:
But the facts show otherwise. Why? Because Sacred Tradition holds that Matthew wrote in Hebrew. We do not have these texts, but his use of Hebrew words show that Peter was 'Kephas', not Petra or Petros. That's a greek translation.

The facts show your in error here...

"Gospel According to Matthew, first of the four New Testament Gospels (narratives recounting the life and death of Jesus Christ) and, with The Gospels According to Mark and Luke, one of the three so-called Synoptic Gospels (i.e., those presenting a common view). It has traditionally been attributed to St. Matthew the Evangelist, one of the 12 Apostles, described in the text as a tax collector (10:3). The Gospel According to Matthew was composed in Greek, probably sometime after 70 CE, with evident dependence on the earlier Gospel According to Mark." (Encyclopedia Britannica)

Root of Jesse said:
I also agree that the Church is those who believe and follow His Word. I disagree with you, though on what, exactly, is God's Word. It is Scriptural when you understand, in context, what the power to bind and loose is.

Indeed I prefer to believe and follow what the bible says. It does not teach what your promoting here.

Root of Jesse said:
Yeah, the word pope was never used.

Thank you for being honest.

Root of Jesse said:
Neither were 'bible' or 'Trinity', and yet both of these are things we believe in.

The trinity can be shown through the scriptures as the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit. They are Gods' Word that prove the trinity. The bible is only a descriptive name for the Word of God. There is no pope anywhere in the bible of the Word of God.

Root of Jesse said:
You have yet to show how we are breaking the fourth commandment...that's the one about honoring your father and mother? Your numbering, which is not biblical, is different.

Nonsense. James 2:10-11 says if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking them all.

Root of Jesse said:
The authority to bind and loose, which is given to the Pope and bishops and Sacred Tradition, which gave you the Bible

No such authority is given to any Pope to break the commandments of God. The Word of God says those who teach these things are not worshiping God neither do they know God and are lying if they say they do in 1 John 2:3-4. Time to leave the teachings and traditions of men. God is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see back to the pure Word of God. BABYLON is fallen

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word. The Words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48

LoveGodsWord · Oct 25, 2020

Root of Jesse said:
Of course he could. Are you trying to tell me Jesus and the apostles weren't gleaning from the wheat in the field? Or was it just that he allowed his apostles to do so because they were hungry, and the Pharisees criticized them? Either way, it seems Jesus gave us permission to work on the Sabbath if need be.

You provide your words that are not Gods' Word and make JESUS out to be a sinner. If JESUS broke God's anyone of God's 10 commandments including the 4th commandment he could not be sinless and be our prefect sacrifice for sin and all mankind would be lost. Your interpretation of the scriptures here disagrees with Hebrews 4:15; Hebrews 9:28; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 1:18-19. Jesus did not break the Sabbath he was the creator of the Sabbath and taught what was lawful to do on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. He broke the Scribes and Pharisees interpretation of the Sabbath which was not according to God's Word in doing good on the Sabbath. Are you really trying to make JESUS the creator of heaven and earth a sinner now?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 25, 2020

Root of Jesse said:
I do not believe you have the authority to interpret Scripture. Only the Church can do that.

Sure I have authority to interpret the scriptures. My authority comes from God not you or the Roman Catholic Church *John 14:26; John 16:13; John 8:31-36; 1 John 2:27; Hebrews 8:11.

Root of Jesse · Oct 25, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
No he didn't. Please provide the scripture stating JESUS is saying Peter is the leader of the Apostles. JESUS said no such thing.

Already done. Go find it.

This is the difference between us. You believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. I believe that God's people believe and follow Gods' Word and not the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS warns us about doing this in Matthew 15:3-9. Nothing that you have posted here is biblical so we will have to agree to disagree because for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts if the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9.

Actually, I do not believe any traditions of men. Regarding teachings, I believe Jesus when he told us that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide us in ALL TRUTH. He was speaking specifically to the apostles, and they appointed others as the Church grew who carried the same authority, guided in all truth by the Holy Spirit. So I don't know which of us follows the actual words of Jesus more...

Your response here...

Then don't read the scriptures in vacuum and read them in context and address the OP and prove from the scriptures that "the Lords day" is Sunday. There is no scripture but it is Gods' Word not mine that says that JESUS is Lord of the Sabbath day *Matthew 12:8.

It is God's Word that the Lord's Day is Sunday. You must begin to differentiate between the Bible and the rest of God's Word.

My view is based on the scriptures which have already been provided. They are God's Word not mine and they disagree with you. That said as posted earlier I would also be happy with either interpretation and think your argument is a distraction if you do not understand what the "Church" is according to the scriptures. God's church according to the scriptures are all those who believe and follow God's Word. If someone departs the faith (the truth of the Word of God) they are no longer a part of Gods true church according to the scriptures.

Your view is based on your interpretation of the Bible. I do not hold that same interpretation, and if you look how many splits there have been since the institution of the Church, you'll see what I mean. 30,000 or more denominations all believing their views are based on the Word of God, and yet disagreeing with each other.

The facts show your in error here...

"Gospel According to Matthew, first of the four New Testament Gospels (narratives recounting the life and death of Jesus Christ) and, with The Gospels According to Mark and Luke, one of the three so-called Synoptic Gospels (i.e., those presenting a common view). It has traditionally been attributed to St. Matthew the Evangelist, one of the 12 Apostles, described in the text as a tax collector (10:3). The Gospel According to Matthew was composed in Greek, probably sometime after 70 CE, with evident dependence on the earlier Gospel According to Mark." (Encyclopedia Britannica)

Indeed I prefer to believe and follow what the bible says. It does not teach what your promoting here.

I thought you said you believe the Bible only. Encyclopedia Britannica is not the Bible. Neither are footnotes and commentaries necessarily. So you are going on the authority of EB to show that Matthew was written in Greek and cribbed from Mark. I believe the ancient Tradition, that Matthew wrote first, then Mark, then Luke, then John, each to a different audience. And yes, I know there are professors in Catholic Universities who will say that Mark wrote first, and Matthew and Luke borrowed from Mark, but that's not what the ancients say, and they were nearer to the actual event. And Matthew wrote in Hebrew.
The Gospel of Matthew Was First Written in Hebrew.

Thank you for being honest.

That doesn't make it wrong. As you say below, it's a title, nothing more, as is "Bible" and "Trinity".

The trinity can be shown through the scriptures as the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit. They are Gods' Word that prove the trinity. The bible is only a descriptive name for the Word of God. There is no pope anywhere in the bible of the Word of God.

Nonsense. James 2:10-11 says if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking them all.
[/quote]Where did I state otherwise? I believe I am a sinner, and repent for it every day. As are you and everyone else. But you've been saying all along that by worshiping Jesus on Sunday we break the Sabbath commandment. And you can't show me where anything says that by worshiping on Sunday we're breaking the Sabbath commandment.
I can agree that we often break the first three commandments, but not by worshiping on Sunday. By not worshiping Him always, as Jesus told the Pharisees when asked what the greatest commandment was...

No such authority is given to any Pope to break the commandments of God. The Word of God says those who teach these things are not worshiping God neither do they know God and are lying if they say they do in 1 John 2:3-4. Time to leave the teachings and traditions of men. God is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see back to the pure Word of God. BABYLON is fallen

You're right, the Pope doesn't have the authority to force His flock to break any commandment. But you have not shown where any pope has attempted to do such a thing. You cannot show where any teaching of the Church goes against the Commandments.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word. The Words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48

Right. Try contemplating John 6.

Root of Jesse · Oct 25, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Sure I have authority to interpret the scriptures. My authority comes from God not you or the Roman Catholic Church *John 14:26; John 16:13; John 8:31-36; 1 John 2:27; Hebrews 8:11.

Show me that Scripturally. Jesus gave the authority to His apostles, who gave it to their ordained bretheren. See how Paul passed it to Timothy and Titus. You don't speak with such authority.

Root of Jesse · Oct 25, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
You provide your words that are not Gods' Word and make JESUS out to be a sinner. If JESUS broke God's anyone of God's 10 commandments including the 4th commandment he could not be sinless and be our prefect sacrifice for sin and all mankind would be lost. Your interpretation of the scriptures here disagrees with Hebrews 4:15; Hebrews 9:28; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 1:18-19. Jesus did not break the Sabbath he was the creator of the Sabbath and taught what was lawful to do on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. He broke the Scribes and Pharisees interpretation of the Sabbath which was not according to God's Word in doing good on the Sabbath. Are you really trying to make JESUS the creator of heaven and earth a sinner now?

Well, no, I'm saying that Jesus was not a sinner, even while allowing his apostles to glean wheat from the field. You're right, though, he broke their interpretation, as I'm breaking yours.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 25, 2020

Root of Jesse said:
Already done. Go find it.

No, because he provided no such thing. That is why I asked you and your response only agrees with my request.

LGW wrote: This is the difference between us. You believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. I believe that God's people believe and follow Gods' Word and not the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS warns us about doing this in Matthew 15:3-9. Nothing that you have posted here is biblical so we will have to agree to disagree because for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts if the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9.

Your response here...

Root of Jesse said:
Actually, I do not believe any traditions of men. Regarding teachings, I believe Jesus when he told us that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide us in ALL TRUTH. He was speaking specifically to the apostles, and they appointed others as the Church grew who carried the same authority, guided in all truth by the Holy Spirit. So I don't know which of us follows the actual words of Jesus more...

Well that is not true. We have already provided the OP of "the Lords day" not to mention Sunday in place of God's 4th commandment which are but a few of many that the RCC teaches that are not biblical. Only God's Word is true according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. These are the very words of JESUS not mine. Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the truth of God's Word *John 16:13; John 6:63; John 17:17 and works though the Word of God not in contradiction to God's Word.

Root of Jesse said:
It is God's Word that the Lord's Day is Sunday. You must begin to differentiate between the Bible and the rest of God's Word.

Amazing, yet here we still are after 38+ pages and 760 posts and not a single scripture from all of Gods' Word that says Sunday is "the Lords day"? Something to pray about don't you think. This of course as we both know already is only a teaching and tradition of men that is not biblical or supported in the scriptures and God's Word.

Root of Jesse said:
Your view is based on your interpretation of the Bible. I do not hold that same interpretation, and if you look how many splits there have been since the institution of the Church, you'll see what I mean. 30,000 or more denominations all believing their views are based on the Word of God, and yet disagreeing with each other.

Actually no it is not my interpretation it is God's Word and Gods Word is not mine but God's. Your have been provided scripture proof and evidence from your own teachings which are not biblical. An interpretation does not mean something is not true as there is interpretation in truth. It is the scripture that decides interpretation through the Spirit of God *John 16:13. It is like claiming that "the Lords day" is Sunday that is your interpretation yet this interpretation is unsupported by scripture or that God's 4th commandment is fulfilled or abolished by Sunday worship which is not supported by scripture. It is through the scriptures that we determine if interpretation is true or false. All you have provided are teachings and traditions of men that are not biblical that cannot be proven or supported through the scriptures. Yet it is the very scriptures that determine if something is true or not true. The 30,000 plus different denominations or church's are in fulfillment of the scriptures of JESUS and a sign of the last days and your argument here not relevant to our conversation if you do not know what God's Church is according to the scriptures. Gods Church are all those who believe and follow God's Word. Not a church building or denomination.

Root of Jesse said:
I thought you said you believe the Bible only. Encyclopedia Britannica is not the Bible.

Absolutely as I have always posted only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. JESUS warns us about this in Matthew 15:3-9. The Encyclopedia Britannica was provided as a reference disproving that Matthew was not written in the Greek. Please forgive me dear friend but I do not follow the bias writings of Catholic universities.

Root of Jesse said:
But you've been saying all along that by worshiping Jesus on Sunday we break the Sabbath commandment. And you can't show me where anything says that by worshiping on Sunday we're breaking the Sabbath commandment

Your not being honest now as I have said no such thing and your making straw-man arguments no one is arguing about. Breaking God's 4th commandment by working on the seventh day is breaking God's law *1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Exodus 20:8-11 and your Church's teachings as provided you already through the Catholic Catechism teaches that Sunday fulfills God's 4th commandment Sabbath law of the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 which is a man-made teaching and traditions that is not biblical. James says that if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Paul tells us those who knowingly practice sin do not enter into God's kingdom in Hebrews 10:26-31.

Root of Jesse said:
I can agree that we often break the first three commandments,

Thank you for being honest. This is the first step in the right direction. You only need to also consider Gods' 4th commandment as well and leave these traditions and return back to the pure Word of God.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

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