want to talk about OSAS?

Swag365 said:

Do you consider yourself to fall into the class of people who were "once saved" and thus will "always be saved"?

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I consider God to be the one who saves. It is not in my power to prove one way or the other. When I turn to sin, it does most certainly give me pause concerning the question of whether I do belong to Christ or not, but I find him still the most excellent and sure anchor for salvation.

It is not on the question, then, of whether I ever was "once saved" that my assurance rests, but on the excellence of Christ, and the beauty of who he is, and the knowledge that whatever he has decided to do with me is for his own purposes and FOR THAT HE IS TO BE PRAISED.

1watchman said:

Those who hold "all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:27) as shown in Scripture, know the value of what God shows us. We who are "born again" (John 3) and not just general believers about God, take God at His Word without various reasoning and mis-applying verses elsewhere. See what God says also at 2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 4:30; etc. I do not think God will break His 'seal' A true "born again" believer will bow to God's Word and know they HAVE eternal life. All others may believe what they wish.

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Indeed we have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word, even when we read verses like 2 Corinthians 1:22, and Ephesians 4:30 (Which are usually read in a vacuum).

What is the condition of having the seal of God?

Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.


The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

In fact, what is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.


Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.


This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.


As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.



God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.


In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).


Source used:
Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30

Mark Quayle said:

I consider God to be the one who saves. It is not in my power to prove one way or the other. When I turn to sin, it does most certainly give me pause concerning the question of whether I do belong to Christ or not, but I find him still the most excellent and sure anchor for salvation.

It is not on the question, then, of whether I ever was "once saved" that my assurance rests, but on the excellence of Christ, and the beauty of who he is, and the knowledge that whatever he has decided to do with me is for his own purposes and FOR THAT HE IS TO BE PRAISED.

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If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). There is no forgiveness of sins while we are not confessing. The condition of salvation rests on confessing and forsaking sin. 1 John 1:7 says IF we have to walk in the light... the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the use of indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. Read it. This means that loving our brother is a part of salvation. It's not just a walk in the park by just believing in the finished work of Christ alone. Salvation does not work like that. Paul tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Why would Paul say that if God is the one who forces salvation upon people? It makes no sense. Proverbs 28:13 essentially says that he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Mercy is talking about salvation.

Anthony2019 said:

Yes you are right in saying that repentance always precludes forgiveness and generally speaking those who commit grave sins without repentance will face judgement. However, addiction is a very complex illness and for many people recovery can take time and they may suffer relapses in the process. I personally believe that God would give grace to someone who is genuinely trying to turn their life around even if they falter and stumble in the process. It is those who sin wilfully and defiantly who have the problem.

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Yes, God is gracious, and when a TRUE "born again" believer in Christ (John 3; John 14; Romans 8; Galatians 2:20, repents sincerely to God, he or she can be restored to God's grace; which is saying that the SAVED soul as John 3 who acted in the flesh, can be renewed from his/her "carnal" condition ---which condition continuing in the world will bring much trouble and forfeiture of rewards later in Heaven. At least that one will BE in Heaven.

Kenny'sID said:

Jesus's parable said they believed....period, so of course we are talking real faith. Please don't try to change the clear meaning of scripture just to win an argument.

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Genuine faith /belief is one that endures until the end and the Holy Spirit does not allow them to be tempted beyond what they are able to bear but provides a way of escape so that they can ENDURE.

FYI- I don't need to win anything since Scripture supports what I'm saying and opposes your views.

You need to learn your bible.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Luke 8
1 “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

So much for your false teaching on belief in the passage being a saving faith which its not as both Jesus in the parable and Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:13 makes clear.

hope this helps !!!

duplicate

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Thanks brother.[/QUOTE]

Pleasure.

Kenny'sID said:

Pleasure.

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I see you cannot respond with your own thoughts and scripture. No problem.

1

Bible Highlighter said:

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). There is no forgiveness of sins while we are not confessing. The condition of salvation rests on confessing and forsaking sin. 1 John 1:7 says IF we have to walk in the light... the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the use of indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. Read it. This means that loving our brother is a part of salvation. It's not just a walk in the park by just believing in the finished work of Christ alone. Salvation does not work like that. Paul tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Why would Paul say that if God is the one who forces salvation upon people? It makes no sense. Proverbs 28:13 essentially says that he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Mercy is talking about salvation.

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The verse does not teach that eternal security hinges on our confession, but yes, if one is not confessing, the sin is not forgiven.

Let's consider, if one commits a sin (which frankly, we all do without even realizing it) and then dies suddenly without having had that prayer of contrition, is he forever lost? No. The verse is a statement concerning the fact that if we do not confess there is no forgiveness. IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HOW THAT FORGIVENESS IS ACCOMPLISHED.

Jesus is YHWH said:

I see you cannot respond with your own thoughts and scripture. No problem.

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Your posts are coming off as mostly incoherent replies now so dont expect much in the way of replies from me anymore.

And especially because of the way you have attempted to butcher scriprure. But I do understand your reasoning for doing so...its the only way to make OSAS work.

Kenny'sID said:

Your posts are coming off as mostly incoherent replies now so dont expect much in the way of replies from me anymore.

And especially because of the way you have attempted to butcher scriprure. But I do understand your reasoning for doing so...its the only way to make OSAS work.

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Maybe you should actually read this post with understanding.

Genuine faith /belief is one that endures until the end. The Holy Spirit does not allow one to be tempted beyond what they are able to bear but provides a way of escape so that they can ENDURE. See 1 Corinthians 10:13 below:

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Luke 8
1 “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

Genuine faith endures until the end and doesn't fall away as in the good soil which produces fruit and perseveres.

hope this helps !!!

Rachel20 said:

There are multiple meanings of faith (pistis) in scripture, and I believe John is talking here about the doctrinal kind - the truth abiding in them, since he's already warned of "seducers". It isn't the same kind as the saving faith found in Acts 1:31, or the fidelity kind of 1 Thess 5:24. Continuing in the Son and Father would then be a picture of continuing in their truth. I think if John had meant continuing in salvation, he would have flipped that to say "the Son and the Father also shall continue in you" since he pictures salvation this way in 1 John 5:12 - He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I think to see it any other way is to say the Lord can't/didn't accomplish the will of the Father -

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day (John 6:39-40)

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Excuses.

RickReads said:

How so?

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You proved people backslide when you quoted Jeremiah 3:22. The Israilites are a prime example.

1an said:

You proved people backslide when you quoted Jeremiah 3:22. The Israilites are a prime example.

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Well, the Bible proved. You need to tell us more about what you`re thinking. I don`t know what the verse means to you.

Aussie Pete said:

You can learn all the road rules, study the car manual, read up on driving techniques, watch "how-to" videos and still not be able to drive a car. I know some people who have been going to church most of their lives. They are not born again. They know the theory but they've never truly accepted Christ. Hebrews 4: 1 & 2 describes such people. They know about Christ, but they do not know Him.

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You are talking about head knowledge, not heart knowledge. The excuse made by OSAS people is that if someone backslides they were never saved. This is like saying if you loose your house keys you never had them.
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Rachel20 said:

Why would I want them to be of different faith? It would do nothing for my argument. I'm not claiming they don't start out with correct doctrine, but that they "fall away" from it. Paul gives the reason in 2 Timothy 4:3 -

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

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Even Satan fell away.

Rachel20 said:

I don't see how that matters, maybe you can explain it. My point is they're not falling away from salvation, but from correct doctrine. It goes to sanctification, not justification.

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The people who fall away from sound doctrine are the OSAS people. Adam and Eve did and they knew God personally. Please do not be an Eve.
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1an said:

You are talking about head knowledge, not heart knowledge. The excuse made by OSAS people is that if someone backslides they were never saved. This is like saying if you loose your house keys you never had them.
.

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People can backslide. I've done so myself. There was a time when no one would have thought me a Christian except God and myself. The question has to be, can an individual who is born again, who has eternal life, kill that eternal life? If eternal life can die, it is not eternal.

For sure Christians can lose the experience of salvation. I know about 20 who are in that position. They could be restored and get back on track. I know some who have done that also. Those who are backslidden are in the worst possible situation. They have no help from God because they have turned away. Satan does his best to keep them in the mire. It's like being in no man's land, being shot at from both sides.

Those who are born again will be restored, one way or another. That is God's promise. Some will miss out on Kingdom rewards. Some will be saved but lose everything (1 Corinthians 3:15)

1an said:

The people who fall away from sound doctrine are the OSAS people.

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Back up your remarks if you can, predestined-called-justified-glorified, saved just once, waiting to be glorified and yet already glorified from God`s point of view.
:
v

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.