Is Sabbath a shadow?

BobRyan · Oct 22, 2020

imge said:
Really? I am pretty sure Jesus said if you love me keep My commandments. John 14:15

Great point from scripture.

But not everyone is going to go for that scripture - so be prepared.

BobRyan · Oct 22, 2020

imge said:
The Sabbath is the 4th commandant of Gods law. Its the only scripture (10 commandments) in the entire Bible that was written by God. How amazing is that? Yes, He asked us to keep the seventh day Holy as it is a day He Blessed and Sanctified and asked us to Remember (opposite of forget)

Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Amen to that!

BobRyan · Oct 22, 2020

FredVB said:
How many of the commandments are having honoring parents required? How many are requiring one to not kill others? These questions that are having the answer only one does not determine that a commandment is not valid. It only takes one commandment from Yahweh to hold, no less inclusive of observing one day out of others.

With your position, aren't you speaking against people tithing now? It would mean that, if others are told to not even think of doing what the commandments show, as this argument is that Jesus did away with everything God called for in the old testament of the Bible, tithing not even being in the commandments. They were only said for first fruits and choicest from flocks to the priests in Israel, who would make some burnt offering from it. It was never money, and never anything said for the church or congregation anyway.

Source? Can you give any passages from the Bible for that statement, without showing private interpretations?

There was a time in the late first century of the Christian era when that synagogues excluded Jewish believers in Jesus in evidently many places. It did not keep holding, and I, who make no claim to be Jewish, and I think possibly you, could go and be visiting a synagogue. But even with not being accepted in a synagogue believers who were in Jesus, Jewish or otherwise, congregated anyway, among themselves, and Sabbath was still used for that by many.

I know this, why wouldn't I? I certainly read the Bible enough to see that many times. I haven't said anything that argues contrary to that. It still remains from this that the Sabbath is for man. And as believers we know Jesus is Lord. And so Jesus is included in this. There is true rest in this that nonbelievers could never have.

Very good points!

HARK! · Oct 22, 2020

Saint Steven said:
The Ten Commandments are not the commands of Jesus.

That's right. They are our Father's words

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

mmksparbud · Oct 22, 2020

W2L said:
Is OT Sabbath a shadow? If so, how is it a shadow and how is Christ the real thing?

Colossians 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

It is in now way a shadow. It does not point forward to Christ. It points bakwards to Cration week and Christ as the creator of all.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The original word for rested is "ceased."
1 and~they(m)~will~be~FINISH(V) (וַיְכֻלּוּ / wa'ye'khu'lu) the~SKY ~s2 (הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim) and~the~LAND (וְהָאָרֶץ / wê'ha'a'rets) and~ALL (וְכָל / wê'khol) ARMY ~them(m) (צְבָאָם / tsê'va''am)

RMT: and the skies and the land and all of their armies were finished,

2 and~he~will~much~FINISH(V) (וַיְכַל / wai'khal) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) in~the~DAY (בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom) the~SEVENTH (הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i) BUSINESS ~him (מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~he~will~CEASE(V) (וַיִּשְׁבֹּת / wai'yish'bot) in~the~DAY (בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom) the~SEVENTH (הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i) from~ALL (מִכָּל / mi'kol) BUSINESS ~him (מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah)

RMT: and Elohiym finished in the seventh day his business which he did, and he ceased in the seventh day from all his business which he did,

HARK! · Oct 22, 2020

mmksparbud said:
It is in now way a shadow. It does not point forward to Christ.

(CLV) Hb 4:3
Then we who believe are entering into the stopping, according as He has declared, "As I swear in My indignation, `If they shall be entering into My stopping!'" although the works occur from the disruption of the world.

(CLV) Hb 4:4
For He has declared somewhere concerning the seventh thus: And God stops "on the seventh day from all His works."

(CLV) Hb 4:6
Since, then, it is left for some to be entering into it, and those to whom the evangel was formerly brought did not enter because of stubbornness,

SabbathBlessings · Oct 22, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Sorry. I just noticed that you are SDA.
No point in discussing this.

I guess I should take that as a compliment?

clefty · Oct 22, 2020

Saint Steven said:
The Ten Commandments are not the commands of Jesus.

not what Stephen taught Acts 7:38

He being the One giving us the living oracles at Sinai...

Paul too...1 Corinthians 10:4 that He was the spiritual rock from which we drank...

Even the new covenant is still with Israel...”My Laws” put into uncircumcised hearto and Christlike “inner Jew” minds...NOTHING about “My NEW Laws” or “upgrade version 2.0 laws”

don’t tell me you wish to divide His kingdom with two sets of Laws?

clefty · Oct 22, 2020

Saint Steven said:
The Sabbath points to creation, not the other way around.
Are you claiming to keep the Sabbath?

oh?

You mean He didn’t choose to make the world in six days to rest the seventh? I mean He could have done ALL of creation in a one big boom or something...or 3 days...Or million billion years...

instead He worked six days and then rest...Grace given to us unearned...and BEFORE sin when we really needed it...

mmksparbud · Oct 22, 2020

clefty said:
not what Stephen taught Acts 7:38

He being the One giving us the living oracles at Sinai...

Paul too...1 Corinthians 10:4 that He was the spiritual rock from which we drank...

Even the new covenant is still with Israel...”My Laws” put into uncircumcised hearto and Christlike “inner Jew” minds...NOTHING about “My NEW Laws” or “upgrade version 2.0 laws”

don’t tell me you wish to divide His kingdom with two sets of Laws?

There is only one set now---the 10---the Levitical ones, obviously are done away with at the cross as they point to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Might as well get to it now, for we will be keeping it on the new earth.

HARK! · Oct 22, 2020

mmksparbud said:
There is only one set now---the 10---the Levitical ones, obviously are done away with at the cross as they point to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Might as well get to it now, for we will be keeping it on the new earth.

Actually, the new moons are given more detail in Numbers.

Are you suggesting that we are to no longer keep the foremost precept, and the second which is like it?

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-34
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept." 31 And the second is like it: 'You shall be loving your associate as yourself.' Now greater than these is no other precept." 32 And the scribe said to Him, "In truth, Teacher, Thou sayest ideally that He is One, and there is no other more than He." 33 And to be loving Him out of your whole heart, and out of the whole understanding, and out of the whole soul, and out of the whole strength, and to be loving the associate as yourself, is excessively more than all the ascent approaches and the sacrifices." 34 And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God.And no one dared to inquire of Him any longer."

Yahshua was quoting the Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

(CLV) LV 19:18
18 You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself:I am Yahweh.

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

mmksparbud · Oct 22, 2020

HARK! said:
Actually, the new moons are given more detail in Numbers.

Are you suggesting that we are to no longer keep the foremost precept, and the second which is like it?

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-34
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept." 31 And the second is like it: 'You shall be loving your associate as yourself.' Now greater than these is no other precept." 32 And the scribe said to Him, "In truth, Teacher, Thou sayest ideally that He is One, and there is no other more than He." 33 And to be loving Him out of your whole heart, and out of the whole understanding, and out of the whole soul, and out of the whole strength, and to be loving the associate as yourself, is excessively more than all the ascent approaches and the sacrifices." 34 And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God.And no one dared to inquire of Him any longer."

Yahshua was quoting the Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

(CLV) LV 19:18
18 You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself:I am Yahweh.

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

Never said that. I believe we are to keep all the commandments---that's 10 of them. Jeus expounded on them, not eliminated them.

HARK! · Oct 22, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Never said that. I believe we are to keep all the commandments---that's 10 of them. Jeus expounded on them, not eliminated them.

I phrase it as he magnified the law.

(CLV) Isa 42:21
Yahweh, He has delight for the sake of His righteousness, And He may magnify the law and ennoble it.

mmksparbud · Oct 22, 2020

HARK! said:
I phrase it as he magnified the law.

(CLV) Isa 42:21
Yahweh, He has delight for the sake of His righteousness, And He may magnify the law and ennoble it.

yes.

Bob S · Oct 22, 2020

imge said:
Really? I am pretty sure Jesus said if you love me keep My commandments. John 14:15

He sure did and in Jn15:10 Jesus reveals just what He meant not what you are trying to make us believe. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

HARK! · Oct 22, 2020

Bob S said:
He sure did and in Jn15:10 Jesus reveals just what He meant not what you are trying to make us believe. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

That is not the foremost precept that Yahshua gave us.

Bob S · Oct 22, 2020

SDAs and Messianics stay away from verses like 2 Cor3: 6-11. There Paul writes that the commandments written on stone have been done away. This only confirms that Jesus did come and fulfill the laws of the old covenant which the commandments written on stone were part.

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

mmksparbud · Oct 22, 2020

Bob S said:
SDAs and Messianics stay away from verses like 2 Cor3: 6-11. There Paul writes that the commandments written on stone have been done away. This only confirms that Jesus did come and fulfill the laws of the old covenant which the commandments written on stone were part.

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

We do not stay away from any verses--you guys stay away from many---like this one:
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

HARK! · Oct 23, 2020

Bob S said:
SDAs and Messianics stay away from verses like 2 Cor3: 6-11. There Paul writes that the commandments written on stone have been done away. This only confirms that Jesus did come and fulfill the laws of the old covenant which the commandments written on stone were part.

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Shy away? Perhaps this will correct that false perspective:

Paul on the Law: 2 Corinthians 3

Saint Steven · Oct 23, 2020

HARK! said:
That's right. They are our Father's words

To whom? (Deuteronomy 5:3)

Saint Steven said: ↑
The Ten Commandments are not the commands of Jesus.

Is Sabbath a shadow?

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