Is Sabbath a shadow?

LoveGodsWord said:

ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So do you now agree sin is breaking God's LAW? You did not agree earlier.

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II didn't disagree that breaking the Law is sin. That would be silly. What I disagreed to is that the passage that is found; "by the law is the knowledge of sin" is a revelation of the nature of sin. As you put it"what sin is" You went on a mission to turn my disagreement with your interpretation into a disagreement with the Word of God. I was hoping you would ask me what I meant. Knowledge of sin Would you say there is more than one way to know sin?

LoveGodsWord said:

Hello Eloy, God's Spirit works through God's Word. You were only provided God's Word earlier and you disagreed with it. (see post # 247).

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LGW you didn't answer the question. How do you know it is the Holy Spirit's voice you listen to when you read the Word of God and not the voice of the evil one or your own human spirit?

Eloy Craft said:

LGW you didn't answer the question. How do you know it is the Holy Spirit's voice you listen to when you read the Word of God and not the voice of the evil one or your own human spirit?

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How does anyone? Goosebumps?

Steve Petersen said:

How does anyone? Goosebumps?

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The Holy Spirit reveals personal truth to individuals. Universal truth to the Church. If universal truth is given to an individual it is submitted to the univeral Church. As it pertains to experience of the Holy Spirit on the soul, it is like a drop of water on a sponge. The water hits the sponge gently no splash and the Spirit is absorbed and permeates the soul and effects a pemanent change The evil spirit is like a drop of water on a stone. There is a big splash and all no water is absorbed and no lasting effect or good. A power ful experience that is short with no lasting effect on the soul.

Eloy Craft said:

I didn't disagree that breaking the Law is sin. That would be silly.

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Ok great thanks Eloy sounded like you were disagreeing for disagrements sake. Then back to the point at hand which is why those scriptures were posted earlier.

If sin is breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments as shown through the scriptures earlier, and the 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments, then if you know that it is one of the 10 Commandments then is breaking it sin (James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7)?

Eloy Craft said:

LGW you didn't answer the question. How do you know it is the Holy Spirit's voice you listen to when you read the Word of God and not the voice of the evil one or your own human spirit?

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By faith in God's promises. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17; Hebrews 8:11). God promises to send us the Holy Spirit to be our guide and teacher as we seek him by faith through his Word. Those that continue in known unrepetant sin however have not received God's Spirit neither do they know him (Acts 2:38; 3:19: 8:22; 1 John 2:3-4). In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31)

LoveGodsWord said:

Ok great thanks Eloy sounded like you were disagreeing for disagrements sake. Then back to the point at hand which is why those scriptures were posted earlier.

If sin is breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments as shown through the scriptures earlier, and the 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments, then if you know that it is one of the 10 Commandments then is breaking it sin (James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7)?

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It is a sin. A grave sin.

W2L said:

Is OT Sabbath a shadow? If so, how is it a shadow and how is Christ the real thing?
Colossians 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

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Christ being the fulfillment of all things does not just do away with those things. We still need to have morality in our lives, right, even though Christ fulfilled it all, right? And commandments showed what was wrong, not to do those things. If it is all done away, those claiming that are in no justified position to say tithes are still to be given to the church. Tithes were never mentioned for the church in the Bible. Yet Sabbath is among the commandments, and such would say tithes, which are not among the commandments, applies, but what is in the commandments doesn't apply? And being a shadow of the fulfillment does not negate something commanded. Honoring our father and our mother is a shadow of what there is for us coming to Yahweh, is that done away because of that?

FredVB said:

Christ being the fulfillment of all things does not just do away with those things. We still need to have morality in our lives, right, even though Christ fulfilled it all, right? And commandments showed what was wrong, not to do those things. If it is all done away, those claiming that are in no justified position to say tithes are still to be given to the church. Tithes were never mentioned for the church in the Bible. Yet Sabbath is among the commandments, and such would say tithes, which are not among the commandments, applies, but what is in the commandments doesn't apply? And being a shadow of the fulfillment does not negate something commanded. Honoring our father and our mother is a shadow of what there is for us coming to Yahweh, is that done away because of that?

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How many of the commandments are a "Do this " every seventh day. The followers of Jesus were given the authority to change that day to the one that Jesus and the Holy Spirit pointed out to them. In time they had no choice, the synagogue became off limits. That must have been a sure sign. The Sabbath is for man, man isn't for the Sabbath. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.

FredVB said:

Christ being the fulfillment of all things does not just do away with those things. We still need to have morality in our lives, right, even though Christ fulfilled it all, right? And commandments showed what was wrong, not to do those things. If it is all done away, those claiming that are in no justified position to say tithes are still to be given to the church. Tithes were never mentioned for the church in the Bible. Yet Sabbath is among the commandments, and such would say tithes, which are not among the commandments, applies, but what is in the commandments doesn't apply? And being a shadow of the fulfillment does not negate something commanded. Honoring our father and our mother is a shadow of what there is for us coming to Yahweh, is that done away because of that?

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Eloy Craft said:

How many of the commandments are a "Do this " every seventh day.

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How many of the commandments are having honoring parents required? How many are requiring one to not kill others? These questions that are having the answer only one does not determine that a commandment is not valid. It only takes one commandment from Yahweh to hold, no less inclusive of observing one day out of others.

With your position, aren't you speaking against people tithing now? It would mean that, if others are told to not even think of doing what the commandments show, as this argument is that Jesus did away with everything God called for in the old testament of the Bible, tithing not even being in the commandments. They were only said for first fruits and choicest from flocks to the priests in Israel, who would make some burnt offering from it. It was never money, and never anything said for the church or congregation anyway.

The followers of Jesus were given the authority to change that day to the one that Jesus and the Holy Spirit pointed out to them.

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Source? Can you give any passages from the Bible for that statement, without showing private interpretations?

In time they had no choice, the synagogue became off limits. That must have been a sure sign.

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There was a time in the late first century of the Christian era when that synagogues excluded Jewish believers in Jesus in evidently many places. It did not keep holding, and I, who make no claim to be Jewish, and I think possibly you, could go and be visiting a synagogue. But even with not being accepted in a synagogue believers who were in Jesus, Jewish or otherwise, congregated anyway, among themselves, and Sabbath was still used for that by many.

The Sabbath is for man, man isn't for the Sabbath. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.

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I know this, why wouldn't I? I certainly read the Bible enough to see that many times. I haven't said anything that argues contrary to that. It still remains from this that the Sabbath is for man. And as believers we know Jesus is Lord. And so Jesus is included in this. There is true rest in this that nonbelievers could never have.

EastCoastRemnant said:

It is no more a shadow than the Command to not murder or make idols. The NC opens the letters to expose the spirit behind them and writes them on our hearts (conviction of the Spirit of Christ). Yes, we are to spiritually rest in Christ but we are still required to obey that which was Sanctified and Hallowed at creation and codified at Sinai. Can you imagine the chaos in the world beyond what we now see if every Commandment "letter" was not followed by Christians.

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The letter kills.
Is there any evidence that anyone kept the Sabbath before it was given to the Israelites alone in Exodus chapter sixteen?

2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The letter kills.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

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The letter of the law does kill. Who does it kill? The redeemed believers? No, they are effectively redeemed, in Christ. Those that have not heard the law? They have sins they know were their choices for wrongdoing, with not any repentance to come to God, their conscience will bear witness in their condemnation. Those who do hear the law, certainly all those who know things from the law, which is in the Bible, with not any repentance to come to God, are under condemnation from the law, for their failures to the requirements of the law, that they are not repenting of, with the letter of it killing in that sense. The law is not bad though. The law is good. Repenting to no longer do wrong does not kill, still. The Spirit of God does give life to the repentant who come to God, which they can do through Christ.

Is there any evidence that anyone kept the Sabbath before it was given to the Israelites alone in Exodus chapter sixteen?

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Whether any observed the Sabbath before it was spoken of by Yahweh where it is shown in Exodus seems to be irrelevant to whether it is to be observed since then. It would have sense if it was already known of for there to have been observance of the seventh day before that. The basis of testimony of God's work of creation in six days and rest from creation after that, with everything perfect in creation then, and the association with deliverance, would be good enough for remembering it with observance, to rest on that day, which is really possible just in Christ, just as doing what is according to the others of the ten commandments would be good to do.

Eloy Craft said:

LGW you didn't answer the question. How do you know it is the Holy Spirit's voice you listen to when you read the Word of God and not the voice of the evil one or your own human spirit?

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That's because Jesus says He provides the Holy Spirit to help keep the commandments of God, not break them.
John 14:15-18
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

FredVB said:

Whether any observed the Sabbath before it was spoken of by Yahweh where it is shown in Exodus seems to be irrelevant to whether it is to be observed since then. It would have sense if it was already known of for there to have been observance of the seventh day before that. The basis of testimony of God's work of creation in six days and rest from creation after that, with everything perfect in creation then, and the association with deliverance, would be good enough for remembering it with observance, to rest on that day, which is really possible just in Christ, just as doing what is according to the others of the ten commandments would be good to do.

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The Sabbath points to creation, not the other way around.
Are you claiming to keep the Sabbath?

imge said:

That's because Jesus says He provides the Holy Spirit to help keep the commandments of God, not break them.
John 14:15-18
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

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The Ten Commandments are not the commands of Jesus.

Saint Steven said:

The Sabbath points to creation, not the other way around.
Are you claiming to keep the Sabbath?

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The Sabbath is the 4th commandant of Gods law. Its the only scripture (10 commandments) in the entire Bible that was written by God. How amazing is that? Yes, He asked us to keep the seventh day Holy as it is a day He Blessed and Sanctified and asked us to Remember (opposite of forget)

Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Saint Steven said:

The Ten Commandments are not the commands of Jesus.

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Really? I am pretty sure Jesus said if you love me keep My commandments. John 14:15

W2L said:

Is OT Sabbath a shadow? If so, how is it a shadow and how is Christ the real thing?


Colossians 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

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The OT contains many important foreshadows that testify about Christ and about God's plan of redemption. The light of Christ brings full substance to the foreshadows so that we can fully see what God was teaching us through them, which make them all the more important to continue to observe. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother with the foreshadows, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep the Feast. The foreshadows testify about Christ and as his followers we should live in a way that testifies about him by living in obedience to them rather than a way that testifies against Christ.

imge said:

Really? I am pretty sure Jesus said if you love me keep My commandments. John 14:15

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Sorry. I just noticed that you are SDA.
No point in discussing this.

Saint Steven said:

The Ten Commandments are not the commands of Jesus.

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until you read Hebrews 8:6-13 where we are told that Jesus is the one speaking at Sinai.

No wonder that in Matt 19 when Jesus says "Keep the Commandments" and someone asks "which ones" ... He begins quoting from the TEN.