The link referring to the verse that I brought up about buying swords doesn't work anymore.
Well, to put it in line with the topic, I used to believe that Jesus only forgave past sins, and that was another thing I was mad about God with, that you just outright lose your salvation if you sin after being saved which made it like it was best to wait until your death bed to get saved then. But no, I do believe that you're forgiven in advance since you can't sacrifice Jesus more than once.
Hebrews 10 goes into that.
I believe now that you're still forgiven by that same sacrifice even for current and future sins if you seek it. It's like not only are your sins forgiven and separated from you as far as the east is from the west when you're saved, but you're adopted by God. It's a relationship. In fact that's the most important aspect of being saved, you begin a relationship with God. that relationship is 2 way, it involves communication, mutual respect (such as God letting you walk away if you really want to), mutual love, submitting to authority of the Father in the relationship, and, seeking His forgiveness when you do wrong.
1 John is where I get that, even as a Christian, you WILL sin, you don't seek sin and you don't ENJOY sin, but you will sin. So you seek forgiveness from your Father, and your Father, BEING your Father, having established that Relationship with Him, will forgive it, there may involve chastisement as a disciplining action as in Hebrews 12.
I also think sometimes we sin in ways we're not even aware of, sins of omission like God may have provided a witnessing opportunity and you didn't seize it. James 4:17 would say that's a sin, but you might not feel as though you've sinned by not talking to a stranger in public unsolicited.
So would that sin not be forgiven because we didn't take note of a conviction at the time or forgot about it? That's not what I believe. Romans 8:26 shows that the Holy Spirit Himself intercedes for us and while we pray for forgiveness for our sins, the Holy Spirit is being an advocate and maybe filling in the blanks that we can't remember.
Mostly on forgiveness of sins I think the important thing is that you get saved and establish this relationship and that you do work to keep it a good relationship. You don't just walk contrary to your Father deliberately, you don't seek sin, you don't take pleasure in sin, and when you sin, you seek forgiveness and turn away from it, and, for the times our own fallibility doesn't remember every single sin, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us.
Well, all sins of commission are willful, they all require will for us to do, and Christians do sin. We get tempted and we are not Christ able to withstand all temptation, we screw up, we decide to do that sin, click that racy image, take a second look at that scantily clad woman, get angry and maybe think about something bad happening to whoever we got angry at. But unlike someone who's not saved.. it's met without pleasure, but with immediate remorse "I shouldn't have done that".
There are a few ways that people look at sin as a christian.
1. I have to obey the laws and not sin or I'll lose my salvation, basically works salvation/legalism
2. I'm under grace not the law, hypergrace and lawlessness, which is where OSAS gets its bad rap.
3. It becomes a comparing your good works to bad works, which is also works salvation but do more good than bad.. kinda the catholic way of looking at it.
4. Sanctification is a process it is a good work that the Lord began in you and will continue, even if it takes your entire life (and frankly even then as long as we're in the flesh we won't be perfect)
For a time I believed in the balancing act #3, and then I believed in #2, and now I believe #4. It's a process, and part of that process is failing along the way, and being disciplined for it.
That's another belief that as I matured I was more correct in. I'd believed as I'd been taught when I was younger, that once you believe in Jesus everything was going to go well for you, God would always be for you and not against you.
Now after having read Hebrews 12, That's laughable, and it should have been laughable in the gospels themselves where Jesus outright says we'll endure persecution and hardships, Jesus was never a health and wealth prosperity preacher. But now I correctly see that you get disciplined by God and it can be quite severe. Disabling or even fatal in some cases. 1 Corinthians 5 has a person delivered unto Satan to be killed so that his flesh would die and his soul be saved.
anyway.. OSAS is kind of difficult for me to find a position on both within scripture and my own experience. I feel like I walked away, and there was changes. I took pleasure in sin, I sought sin, after not having been that way for several years when God was a bigger part of my life. Anger at God over some incorrect doctrines I think was the start of that downward spiral. Anger leads to doubt and rebellion. I do feel that in those times looking back, I was not the same person that I was before, nor have been after coming back.
But at the same time, He finally called me back, even though I was stubborn about it and the chastisement was disabling. But He called me back, and I can now see all the bad things that happened as disciplining actions, and trying to call me back.
So it's a really hard situation to feel out for a doctrine. Psalm 89 has some parts where God says He visits transgressions with the rod, and iniquity with stripes, but He won't take away His lovingkindness.
So on the one hand, evidence that I would have lost my salvation is that I changed as a person, took pleasure in sin, sought sin, loved sin, had doubts about God, and even voiced those doubts to people. Like Peter denying Christ over and over until the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows and then feeling absolute shame. When I came back, I felt absolute shame most of all in my claiming to be agnostic and even mocking the faith.
On the other hand evidence I never lost it was.. even though I publicly denied belief in God, I still found myself talking to Him, still seeking Him, even though I was mad at Him and wanted to not be on speaking terms.. you know? If you get in a fight with a loved one you still think about them even though you don't want to return their calls. So how could I truly and honestly have not believed in Him despite WHAT I said to other people when I was by myself I was reaching out to Him and thinking about Him? Secondly He BEAT me with that rod of chastisement. Just a lot of "what are the chances of that happening?" "random" bad luck things happened to me. Which shows me now as I understand Hebrews that God was still dealing with me as a son. A disobedient son.
Now when I think about the times when multiple people did the same thing wrong and I'm the only one who got caught and punished.. now I think, all the guys who "got away with it".. they weren't saved... I wish I still knew how to contact them and get them saved now.
So.. on OSAS.. I don't even know, He called me back so it's not like He just let me go off and die in my sins. Did I lose salvation? Or was it just a wicked backslide and me being the prodigal son but I was always elected for salvation.
As an FYI after the prodigal son returned in repentance to the father, he said this: this is my son, WHO WAS DEAD, but is now ALIVE AGAIN.
The son didn’t die physically and come back to life, thus he was dead in his sins, while off in the world.
Ephesians 2:1
To be saved, we must repent of our sins - as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19), but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;
So the hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.
Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.
That’s why the apostle wrote:
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Scripture makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:
Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.
Will God let His enemies into heaven?
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.
Note that hyper-grace OSAS teaching says your sins don’t count, because all your sins - past, present and future sins - have all been forgiven - so you can regularly commit sins such as sexual sins, and God won’t hold you accountable - yet the verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.
We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.
Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continue to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.
In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.
1Jn 1:7 (But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.
Next:
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).
Having no condemnation, and being in Christ, is conditional upon walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.
And Paul warns us against being deceived about living in sin as a believer, when he wrote:
Gal 6:7 Be Not DECEIVED ; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man SOWETH,that shall he also REAP.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; BUT he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting
You reap everlasting life only if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1, above, but reap spiritual death if you sow to your flesh.
When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.
The lies of hyper grace are twofold: you don’t need to ever repent after salvation when you sin; and you can’t lose salvation.
This makes grace a license to sin, since sin has no eternal penalty.
Thus if you want a mistress on the side, you can have one, and regularly commit adultery - or if you’re a drunkard you can get drunk every day - you can live a sinful lifestyle with impunity.
I personally know people that are living in sin, and use OSAS as their sinning license, and they get angry if you tell them that Paul warned the brethren in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that living in the sin of drunkenness or adultery, etc, will keep them out of heaven.
In that passage, Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:
1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that yourbrethren.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks
