want to talk about OSAS?

Timothy 4:1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"

Gracia Singh said:

There’s actually a Saint who was an opium addict for much of his life.

Saint Marcus Ji Tianxiang

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I'm disheartened that he was banned from taking communion since he never lost his faith and was trying so hard to break his dependency. But I'm glad he was able to come back to full communion.

Anthony2019 said:

I'm disheartened that he was banned from taking communion since he never lost his faith and was trying so hard to break his dependency. But I'm glad he was able to come back to full communion.

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Yeah. If you’re in a pretty bad place in at least one aspect of your life, refraining can actually do more to heal and help your soul than coming forward to receive Christ when you should not. It’s tough, it’s hard to not receive Him, but as we wait and hope and keep going, for our obedience and acceptance, He gives us other graces. Different graces, but good ones.

Kenny'sID said:

Timothy 4:1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"

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The same kind of faith (pistis) I was talking about earlier - doctrine.

Gracia Singh said:

Yeah. If you’re in a pretty bad place in at least one aspect of your life, refraining can actually do more to heal and help your soul than coming forward to receive Christ when you should not. It’s tough, it’s hard to not receive Him, but as we wait and hope and keep going, for our obedience and acceptance, He gives us other graces. Different graces, but good ones.

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Years ago I would happily take part in the Eucharist without a second thought of the sins I had committed. These days I have learned to examine myself more carefully. I think you're right, when we are told we should not receive the body and blood of Christ in an unworthy manner, it increases our resolve to avoid falling into sin. And on the subject of OSAS, I think that when we realise we are indeed capable of stumbling and even falling away, we tend less to take God's grace for granted.

Rachel20 said:

The same kind of faith (pistis) I was talking about earlier - doctrine.

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Except you can't prove these weren't people with the same faith as yourself, and there is no indication whatsoever there that says they are any different from any saved person. What is described there can happen to anyone who chooses to do those things.

You simply choose to "say" there is a difference,, and right out of the blue.

Please tell me what makes them different?

alllivesmatter said:

Keep it up and one of the nice staff is going to come in and boot you out and close the thread. You've been picking on one all day.
No one owes you a verse, look it up.

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I could not care less about your opinion on that.

1an said:

You cannot become a person of no faith, if you have never had faith.
For the OSAS people to say "they never believed" is a nonsense. It is like this, you cannot lose your driving license I you never had one.
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You can learn all the road rules, study the car manual, read up on driving techniques, watch "how-to" videos and still not be able to drive a car. I know some people who have been going to church most of their lives. They are not born again. They know the theory but they've never truly accepted Christ. Hebrews 4: 1 & 2 describes such people. They know about Christ, but they do not know Him.

alllivesmatter said:

Keep it up and one of the nice staff is going to come in and boot you out and close the thread. You've been picking on one all day.
No one owes you a verse, look it up.

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I think you owe me a verse

alllivesmatter said:

1John 4:4

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One of my favorites,

1 John 4 King James Version

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

alllivesmatter said:

That's good then I will never have to put up with you like hammster has.
Bless your heart anyway

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I could not care less about your opinion on that.

Anthony2019 said:

I agree with you that mortal sin severs a person from the body of Christ and they no longer remain in a state of grace.
I think it's also worth adding that the distinction between venial and mortal can sometimes get blurred. There are some factors which lessen the culpability of someone's sin, making what would ordinarily consititute a mortal sin a venial one. For example, someone suffering from a battle with addiction who is trying to reform their life may have a strong faith in God, but may suffer numerous relapses. Because their intention and motivation is pure, and their hearts are still focussed on Christ, I believe that they do not fall from grace.

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I am not so convinced of that. If they are in a state of living righteously... I believe they are saved. In the moment they are doing drugs again (even for a short time or as a part of a slip up), I do not believe they are saved while doing drugs. I believe they have to confess and forsake such sin in order to obtain mercy and salvation. So do you believe King David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

Bible Highlighter said:

So do you believe King David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

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If he did not repent in the way he did, then no I do not believe that he would have been saved.

Gracia Singh said:

B H, I am always impressed and overjoyed by what you come up with! God has given you a very theologically astute and discerning heart. God bless you, friend.

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Thank you for the kind words. All glory to the Lord Jesus Christ for anything I have learned.

Anthony2019 said:

If he did not repent in the way he did, then no I do not believe that he would have been saved.

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Okay. Lets simplify this, brother. If he died while doing the drugs before he got a chance to confess of it, is he saved? I don't believe he would be saved. Granted, the Lord is not willing that any should perish but all should come to repentance, but then again there are those who are like a Judas or an Ananias and Sapphira who do something so bad it just leads to their own condemnation. It is sad unfortunately. I really wish the gate was more wide and open for all, but Jesus said narrow is the way.

Bible Highlighter said:

Okay. Lets simplify this, brother. If he died while doing the drugs before he got a chance to confess of it, is he saved? I don't believe he would be saved. Granted, the Lord is not willing that any should perish but all should come to repentance, but then again there are those who are like a Judas or an Ananias and Sapphira who do something so bad it just leads to their own condemnation. It is sad unfortunately. I really wish the gate was more wide and open for all, but Jesus said narrow is the way.

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Sadly, I would say probably not, if he had no intention at the time of repenting.
Whether someone is finally saved or not is ultimately dependent upon God. We can never put limits on his love and mercy.