Pope backs same sex unions

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BobRyan

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I was surprised. But the Catholic Church basically treats gays like human beings .

Catholic News Agency " The topic of gay marriage was not discussed in the documentary. In his ministry, Pope Francis has frequently affirmed the doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church that marriage is a lifelong partnership between one man and one woman." What did Pope Francis say about civil unions? A CNA Explainer

I always kinda wondered - is it better to keep denying a struggling homosexual christians a marriage and hence indirectly leading them to a promiscuous life styles (it's always so easy to say 'just don't have sex at all' when you're married yourself), or to let them marry and stay in a stable relationship... But then I realized there're people who know better than Pope or even God himself - the random people on the internet forums!

Needless to say, I found exactly what I expected.

So then you see some room for the Pope to make more changes or is " In his ministry, Pope Francis has frequently affirmed the doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church that marriage is a lifelong partnership between one man and one woman " - where you think it should be left?
 
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BobRyan

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But in talking with the ex-homosexual after the service, we got talking about legalisation of homosexuality. He commented that they should not be subject to bashings, snide comments and other brutalities and discrimination that were often their lot. .

In the "prostitutes" example that someone gave recently - we do not see Jesus subjecting them to "bashing, snide comments and other brutalities".
 
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BobRyan

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Here's a somewhat more detailed article, from the National Catholic Register: Pope Francis Calls for Civil Union Law for Same-Sex Couples, in Shift From Vatican Stance.

The article implies that he supported civil unions when he was in Argentina.

Your link says this --

==============================

"In 2010, while he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis opposed efforts to legalize same-sex marriage. While Sergio Rubin, the future pope’s biographer, suggested that Francis supported the idea of civil unions as a way to prevent the wholesale adoption of same-sex marriage in Argentina, Miguel Woites, director of the Argentinian Catholic news outlet AICA, dismissed in 2013 that claim as false.

"But the pope’s mention of having previously “stood up” for civil unions seems to confirm the reports of Rubin and others who said that then-Cardinal Bergoglio supported privately the idea of civil unions as a compromise in Argentina.

"In the 2013 book On Heaven and Earth, Pope Francis did not reject the possibility of civil unions outright, but did say that laws “assimilating” homosexual relationships to marriage are “an anthropological regression,” and he expressed concern that if same-sex couples “are given adoption rights, there could be affected children. Every person needs a male father and a female mother that can help them shape their identity.”
Pope Francis Calls for Civil Union Law for Same-Sex Couples, in Shift From Vatican Stance.
 
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Philip_B

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I was surprised. But the Catholic Church basically treats gays like human beings . My church accepts them as normal . Religious conservatives tend to emotionally abuse or some even call for actual physical abuse or murder like that Steven Anderson (who is persona non grata in most of Europe now because of his views)

I think this could be better expressed. perhaps:

The Catholic Church treats gays as human beings, simply because they are. My church accepts them. The truth of course is that we are all flawed in some way or other, yet we are all loved by God. Some on the religious right fail to distinguish adequately between sin and sinner which can lead to them adopting positions which are not worthy of those who follow Jesus to reach out his arms on the cross in love for all of flawed humanity.​
 
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Cis.jd

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Indeed - Christ loved all mankind - including those in your list but did not call for a prostitute's club where everyone in the club could enjoy their chosen profession and could affirm themselves for having chosen such a noble profession. In fact He was pretty clear that people should not be doing that ... but that did not mean He refused to evangelism them and encourage them to accept the gospel, the new birth, the new covenant, the law written on the heart, eternal life.

He dies on the cross so that they can escape slavery to sin and all the doom that a life of rebellion results in at the final day of judgment.

Yes, but it is all about relationships first. Both Jesus and the Pharisees obviously did not approve of prostitution.. but what was the difference between both of them in handling it? Did Jesus view these high priests to be better or worse than the prostitutes, despite what these women where doing?
 
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Root of Jesse

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I think the Pope has just destroyed the moral credibility of the Catholic Church. Or, if he hasn't destroyed, he's certainty hurt it. I would like him to come out and directly say, yes homosexuality is a mortal sin, but this doesn't affect my political stance on the issue of same-sex marriage.
No. Because we are not destroying the moral credibility of the candidate who says "I am personally against abortion, but I cannot take the right away from someone who wants to get one."

In this case, the Pope says that same sex unions should be legally protected, which has nothing to do with saying that the Church would perform and accept same sex marriage (so-called). By the way, I disagree with his stance, but it is just his opinion. I disagree with many of the things he's said, about climate change and illegal immigration.
 
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Root of Jesse

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To hell. The Catholic organisation is worldly through and through. If you try to be everyone's friend, you make yourself God's enemy. And the pope is supposed to be infallible?
Many of us reject the worldly part of the Church but stick with the original teaching of Christ and the apostles. The pope is not infallible in worldly matters...
 
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Root of Jesse

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Anyone with a working brain can see the contradiction. The Pope is encouraging mortal sin in the secular realm. He wants this to be an accepted institution politically and if this is the case for homosexuality, why shouldn't the rest of Catholic moral teaching be thrown out and dismissed within the secular world?

Mind you, the Vatican's lack of moral credibility happened a few years ago with China. Before then it was a the sexual abuse crisis. This only continues to the trend of the Catholic Church going in the direction of anemic and spiritually powerless liberal Protestantism.

Liberals will be satisfied whenever Christian morality is being subverted so of course they will be happy. But for those of us who take the Christian moral tradition seriously and value it, why should we give any respect to the Catholic Church as an institution? I'm not even Catholic and I find Francis' compromise with secularism disheartening. I hope the next Pope will be Robert Sarah.
I don't see it this way. I think he wants us to act charitably toward those who have this inclination, as we should with everyone. For example, I can hate illegal immigration, but as a Christian I must treat the people involved in it with their God-given dignity.
I agree with you, and reject the secular church.
 
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Root of Jesse

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True, but many feel that his words indicate some degree of endorsement or approval of homosexual unions/acts, if only by implication. Others may disagree. At the very least, it appears that the Pope's words have caused confusion and concern for many Catholics.
The pope often speaks in a confusing manner. Other popes have spoken succinctly, yet been misunderstood intentionally.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Root of Jesse

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He (Pope Francis) said:
“Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”​

I think that there is a level of over-reach going on. Having read a few of his articles more generally, I suggest that Pope Francis in general speaks after due consideration, and he is no intellectual slouch. Whilst I know for some the idea of diminishing to personhood of LGBT is a popular pastime, in truth such actions fail to acknowledge the idea of our shared humanity, and the image and likeness we bear. This is part of the basis for the encyclical Fratelli Tutti (Fratelli tutti (3 October 2020) | Francis), though the substance of that document is not about this issue.

Homophobia is a less endearing stream of some Christianity, and I fear it often appears to deny the truth that Christ died for all. If a group of people were being marginalised in our society and left exposed to unfair treatment, I would hope that the Church would (with Christ) stand up in their defence. If you read the words and not the commentary, I think that is exactly what Pope Francis has done.

Viva Papa!
Don't really know what that means. Any human is born into a family, though those who get orphaned or adopted don't keep that family. So we're all in a family. I think he's speaking here of how family members treat those LGBTQ people. But then it's as if he's saying they can have children together, and I scratch my head.
I just try to treat people with dignity, regardless of whether I agree with their lifestyle...
 
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BobRyan

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That’s silly. Don’t you think mainline churches know what is popular and unpopular. Accepting gays is popular with some people, but unpopular with more. No sane person would expect it to gain members. Is it so hard to believe that mainline Christians think it is the right thing to do, and are willing to pay a price in membership? Not everyone accepts evangelicals misreading of scripture.

John 6, perhaps?

You think Hedrick is referencing John 6???
 
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BobRyan

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Many of us reject the worldly part of the Church but stick with the original teaching of Christ and the apostles. The pope is not infallible in worldly matters...

So when it comes to moral issues the Pope is or is not infallible ?
 
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lismore

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I don't see it this way. I think he wants us to act charitably toward those who have this inclination, as we should with everyone. For example, I can hate illegal immigration, but as a Christian I must treat the people involved in it with their God-given dignity.

Hello Root. I think this has clearly gone beyond just 'acting charitably'. It's advocating giving legal weight to something which is a sin. God Bless :)
 
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Philip_B

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O God, Trinity of love,
from the profound communion of your divine life,
pour out upon us a torrent of fraternal love.
Grant us the love reflected in the actions of Jesus,
in his family of Nazareth,
and in the early Christian community.

Grant that we Christians may live the Gospel,
discovering Christ in each human being,
recognizing him crucified
in the sufferings of the abandoned
and forgotten of our world,
and risen in each brother or sister
who makes a new start.

Come, Holy Spirit, show us your beauty,
reflected in all the peoples of the earth,
so that we may discover anew
that all are important and all are necessary,
different faces of the one humanity
that God so loves. Amen.
 
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lismore

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So when it comes to moral issues the Pope is or is not infallible ?

It depends it if's an 'ex cathedra' statement or not, which can only be decided by another 'ex cathedra' statement, which can only be decided by.........and so the dance continues :)
 
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pescador

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Hello Root. I think this has clearly gone beyond just 'acting charitably'. It's advocating giving legal weight to something which is a sin. God Bless :)

Is "treating the people involved in it with their God-given dignity" a sin? Really?
 
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hedrick

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You think Hedrick is referencing John 6???
I don't see the connection.

As you probably know, discussions of the morality of homosexuality aren't permitted here. So I really can't say why I'm convinced that the anti-gay position is reading into the text things that aren't there.
 
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