want to talk about OSAS?

Kenny'sID · Oct 22, 2020

You OSAS people really do have a problem with the term "believe".

Do you not understand, that to believe in God/Christ, also means to believe what they tell you? Like when they instruct you, you will listen, and do as they say. if you do not do that, you do not belive in them.

How convenient it is to pretend believing doesn't mean we have to do as Christ says. That is a huge part of the OSAS delusion.

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 22, 2020

Swag365 said:
Sacred Scripture does not teach OSAS. You can quote verses until the second coming, and that will remain true. Every verse that you have cited has been discussed in the context of OSAS a thousand times on this site. You merely need search for those threads. Have a nice day.

I could care less about any previous discussion. Gods word say otherwise and I gave you Jesus promises on the topic of Eternal Life. I believe Jesus promises otherwise He is a liar. And I know Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, not a liar and forever His word is settled in heaven. He is Eternal Life and those in Christ have His spirit in them as a guarantee as Ephesian 1 promises.

hope this helps !!!

Maria Billingsley · Oct 22, 2020

alllivesmatter said:
I would like to clear it up. As I said on another thread, To me how can you not believe in it? You have to keep being saved over and over again otherwise? So once isn't enough for you? That would seem to say that being saved is meaningless if you can't count on it to stick around.
Any theories, thoughts, etc?

Continuation....
We must keep in mind that our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth continously warned believers to "stay the course" and to "endure to the end". These are not words that depict OSAS, these are warnings that many WILL FALL AWAY. Be blessed

Maria Billingsley · Oct 22, 2020

alllivesmatter said:
I would like to clear it up. As I said on another thread, To me how can you not believe in it? You have to keep being saved over and over again otherwise? So once isn't enough for you? That would seem to say that being saved is meaningless if you can't count on it to stick around.
Any theories, thoughts, etc?

One more thing....
You can not fall away from something unless you were once "in something".
Blessings

Albion · Oct 22, 2020

Guojing said:
This will make the entire argument a circular one, aka

Not at all. What it does is show that Eternal Security is credible no matter what the circumstances are concerning the need for Faith.

If you are truly saved, you cannot fall away (OSAS)

Let's correct that. You cannot fall away for good.

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 22, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
You OSAS people really do have a problem with the term "believe".

Do you not understand, that to believe in God/Christ, also means to believe what they tell you? Like when they instruct you, you will listen, and do as they say. if you do not do that, you do not belive in them.

How convenient it is to pretend believing doesn't mean we have to do as Christ says. That is a huge part of the OSAS delusion.

I hate to burst you bubble but its just the opposite, those who are born again have a new nature, one that pleases Christ and lives for His glory and not self. They have the fruit of the spirit as per Galatians 5:22-23 and put the interest of others over their own interests. They love the brethren as per Jesus reaching and Johns in 1 John. Those who believe and teach otherwise and claim to be followers of Jesus without good works as a result of their salvation Ephesians 2:8-10 are only fooling themselves and are tares among the wheat. The parable of the sower Jesus teaches that genuine faith produces a fruitful life that glorifies Him. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? May it never be. But if we do sin we have an Advocate with the father, Jesus Christ. 1 John 2:2. A believer is not sinless but they do sin less because the Holy Spirit in them restrains the flesh/self and we have a new desire to please Him and glorify Him. That was an impossibility before the new birth, prior to becoming a new creation Christ.

hope this helps !!!

Swag365 · Oct 22, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
I gave you Jesus promises on the topic of Eternal Life. I believe Jesus promises otherwise He is a liar. And I know Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, not a liar and forever His word is settled in heaven. He is Eternal Life and those in Christ have His spirit in them as a guarantee as Ephesian 1 promises.

Amen brother. I could not agree more.

But none of that changes the fact that Sacred Scripture does not teach OSAS.

Have a nice day.

Kenny'sID · Oct 22, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
I hate to burst you bubble but its just the opposite, those who are born again have a new nature, one that pleases Christ and lives for His glory and not self. They have the fruit of the spirit as per Galatians 5:22-23 and put the interest of others over their own interests. They love the brethren as per Jesus reaching and Johns in 1 John. Those who believe and teach otherwise and claim to be followers of Jesus without good works as a result of their salvation Ephesians 2:8-10 are only fooling themselves and are tares among the wheat. The parable of the sower Jesus teaches that genuine faith produces a fruitful life that glorifies Him. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? May it never be. But if we do sin we have an Advocate with the father, Jesus Christ. 1 John 2:2. A believer is not sinless but they do sin less because the Holy Spirit in them restrains the flesh/self and we have a new desire to please Him and glorify Him. That was an impossibility before the new birth, prior to becoming a new creation Christ.

hope this helps !!!

And if they stop doing all that, they fall away...simple.

Happens all the time, even here people talk I about leaving the faith.

Rachel20 · Oct 22, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
And if they stop doing all that, they fall away...simple.

Happens all the time, even here people talk I about leaving the faith.

Was John guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy or was he on to something? 1 John 2:19

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 22, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
And if they stop doing all that, they fall away...simple.

Happens all the time, even here people talk I about leaving the faith.

Then they were never born again its as simple as that. Tares among the wheat. Read the parable of the sower to see the difference between real living faith and a dead faith.

Swag365 · Oct 22, 2020

Albion said:
Let's correct that. You cannot fall away for good.

Sure, but I don't think this is what OSAS teaches. OSAS is more like "Once are person is justified (lets say by sincerely praying the "sinner's prayer") then there is no sin or disbelief that can cause the person to lose justification, even temporarily.

Of course, when Jimmy Swaggart and others who have said the sinners prayer go out and have sex with 20 prostitutes, they get out of the conundrum by saying that the sinner's prayer was not sincere, and that the person "was never really saved in the first place" and so on.

Hammster · Oct 22, 2020

I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
— John 17:11

“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
— John 17:20-21

The only way we can lose salvation is if the Father denies this request from the Son.

Swag365 · Oct 22, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Then they were never born again its as simple as that. Tares among the wheat. Read the parable of the sower to see the difference between real living faith and a dead faith.

So in your view, since you are saved, what would happen to you if two years from now you decided to rape an infant and murder a 90 year old woman? Would you be still be saved, or would you be "never really saved in the first place?"

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 22, 2020

Swag365 said:
So in your view, since you are saved, what would happen to you if two years from now you decided to rape an infant and murder a 90 year old woman? Would you be still be saved, or would you be "never really saved in the first place?"

It would never happen Gods spirit in me restrains my thoughts and actions.

any more insane examples you want to entertain ?

1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Some of you WERE ( PAST TENSE) like the murderer the Apostle PAUL. THAT WAS HIS PAST LIFE.

HOPE THIS HELPS !!!

Albion · Oct 22, 2020

Swag365 said:
Sure, but I don't think this is what OSAS teaches.

Sure, it does. But that may be easier to appreciate if we were using the more formal term, Eternal Security. "OSAS" after all, is slang.

So...is "Eternal Security" possible with God?. Of course it is.

And if a person were to struggle, fall off the wagon, have doubts, but wind up on the right side of God, he is eternally secure, wouldn't you agree? I don't know of any church that says that if a person commits one sin, he's done for good.

OSAS is more like "Once are person is justified (lets say by sincerely praying the "sinner's prayer") then there is no sin or disbelief that can cause the person to lose justification, even temporarily.

We certainly are entitled to disagree... and I disagree in this case.

Swag365 · Oct 22, 2020

Hammster said:
I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
— John 17:11

“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
— John 17:20-21

The only way we can lose salvation is if the Father denies this request from the Son.

Well that is an interesting take on it, given the explosion of different Christian denominations with widely varying beliefs. Obviously all of the saved Christians throughout the Earth are not "one" unless you limit all of the elect to one particular denomination (presumably yours).

Swag365 · Oct 22, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
It would never happen Gods spirit in me restrains my thoughts and actions.

Jimmy Swaggart said the same thing, before he went out and had sex with 20 hookers.

Hammster · Oct 22, 2020

Swag365 said:
Well that is an interesting take on it, given the explosion of different Christian denominations with widely varying beliefs. Obviously all of the saved Christians throughout the Earth are not "one" unless you limit all of the elect to one particular denomination (presumably yours).

Actually, all the sheep are one. We are all one in Christ.

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 22, 2020

Swag365 said:
Jimmy Swaggart said the same thing, before he went out and had sex with 20 hookers.

and he is not saved a wolf in sheeps clothing.

any other fallacious arguments you would like a biblical answer to ?

Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Kenny'sID · Oct 22, 2020

Rachel20 said:
Was John guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy or was he on to something? 1 John 2:19

And there that is again.

Lets get that into context, who are they?

Also, did the following believer fall away, or not?

Luke 8:13 The seeds that fell on rocky ground stand for those who hear the message and receive it gladly. But it does not sink deep into them; they believe only for a while but when the time of testing comes, they fall away

want to talk about OSAS?

Are you an OSAS believer?

yes

no

of course

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