Does Jesus quote 1 Enoch?

Is the book of Enoch canonical?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • No

    Votes: 23 63.9%
  • Not all of them

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 7 19.4%

  • Total voters
    36

yeshuasavedme

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true, but the book of Judah says he’s quoting Enoch, not that he’s quoting the book of Enoch.

It is only an assumption that he’s quoting from the book of Enoch.
You do not know the “writings’, said Jesus. The writings considered sacred.
Scripture means writing. Bible means book.
So Jesus was quoting the sacred writings of Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, as His womb brother, Jude, also quoted from.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Very good..

Looks like you just proved that people don't realize that The Book of Enoch is quoted a couple of time in the canon...

Should make us think... really.
It is quoted from many, many times, and the foundational doctrines of the Torah is laid down by Enoch as to the doctrines of Sheol below earth, who is there, for how long, and where, and the doctrine of the Son of Man as God the Word who was to come, who was seen only by Enoch and who was hidden in God, with God, and who would be revealed and whose name was secret til the revealing, and that He was the Redeemer in whose Name the righteous would be saved and the wicked would be condemned by Him as Judge, to the Lake of fire; and so on and so forth...
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I’ll have to look into this - this would definitely disqualify the book of Enoch.
That is a lie, flat out, made up by someone who does not do research. We are discussing Ethiopian Enoch, which is also called 1 Enoch.
Enoch is in heaven, in his translated to the body for glory and rules from there with the holy watcher angels. That is his own testimony he left for his son Methusaleh, to pass down to the generations after him.
If you would like to see him ruling, look at Daniel 10:11-20, and Revelation, when he shows John all the things about New Jerusalem and John bows to worship him and he tells John not to do that, because he is of his brethren, the prophets, and to worship Jesus.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Certainly the book called "1 Enoch" today did not exist in the time of Jesus. It's not even in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, or Latin.
Do your research. The Dead Sea Scrolls have the Book of Enoch fragments which are copies of copies of copies going all the way back to the Ark, cause Methusaleh gave it to Noah, and Noah passed it on, and even contributed his own writing which is part of the book called 1 Enoch.
in the DSS, there is a writing of Abraham in which he tells of reading to the wise men of Pharaoh from the book of Enoch when they asked him to teach them “wisdom,values, and truth” at the time they returned Sarah to him.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The Book of Enoch attests, Phanuel is the angel of repentance unto hope of those who have inherited eternal life....?
Phanuel (angel) - Wikipedia
And the same is the “Angel of His face”, which is what the name means.
He was with the Children of Israel as a fire by night and a cloud by day. God said not to offend Him, for His name was in him.
He wrestled with Jacob, in Genesis 32:24-30 and Jacob named the place where they wrestled “Penuel” “face of God”, for he said “I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved, and Hosea 12:3-5, sates Jacob wrestled with “God”, the Angel (of His face), who is “YHWH Elohim of hosts”, which name is His Memorial/Name...
So....
God the Word is come in human being flesh as the second Man Creation named “Israel” (Isaiah 49), not Adam, but as Kinsman flesh to Adam, having put on the garment of flesh to wear as Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam flesh brother, and before that, He did interact with men.....
So in Exodus 23:20-23, YHWH warns Israel that He is sending His angel -the angel of His presence Isaiah 63:9) before them, and to obey him....
So Peniel, Penuel, however you want to spell it, is “the angel of His presence”.
But God the Word, who created all things and created Adam in His own image/tslem (Genesis 1:26-28) did not come in that image Adam was created in until He donned the new creation human being flesh body in the womb of the virgin.
Romans 5:14 states Adam was made in the very image of Him who was to come, and now is come.

So we see Him in Penuel, as the angel of his face, and Jacob wrestled with him, and Hosea states He was YHWH, Elohim of hosts.
 
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Semper-Fi

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In Enoch Phanuel so called was one of the four voices
Enoch heard praising God. He was or is not God.


He is the fourth voice heard [Enoch, Chapter 40:7]
"fending off the Satans (adversaries or accusers)

and forbidding them to come before [the Lord of spirits]
to accuse them who dwell on the earth".
 
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yeshuasavedme

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In Enoch Phanuel so called was one of the four voices
Enoch heard praising God. He was or is not God.
He is the fourth voice heard [Enoch, Chapter 40:7]
"fending off the Satans (adversaries or accusers)

and forbidding them to come before [the Lord of spirits]
to accuse them who dwell on the earth".
In Genesis 3:8, Adam and Eve heard the “voice” of YHWH Elohim walking in the garden.
(How does one hear a voice walking?)
And they hid themselves from “Paniym/Penuel” =the presence/face of YHWH.
The spelling in Hebrew is the same Penuel who wrestled with Jacob, and who Jacob called “the face of Elohim” and who Jacob named that place “Penuel” after, because he said he had seen the face of God and did not die.

The same Face/Presense of YHWH was the Angel of His Presense who was with the children of Israel when they traveled for the 40 years, and in whom YHWH said was His Name.
Just sayin’
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Exodus 23:20, 21, “My Name is in Him”.
Isaiah 63:9 “...the angel of His Presense/face...the same Penuel who wrestled with Jacob.
Hos 12:3-5 That one called Penuel in Genesis 32:24 -30 is the same called YHWH Elohim of hosts in Hosea 12.
So, I only know there is a mighty “angel of His Voice/Face/Presense called Penuel, and he is in Enoch, and in the Torah, the prophets, and in Revelation.
 
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Semper-Fi

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Enoch is in heaven

1 John 4:12 (KJV)
Jesus Himself said: No man hath seen God at any time.

John 1:18 (KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


in his translated to the body

"all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years"

Enoch is included by Paul (in Hebrews 11:1-12) among the fathers who
obtained a good report through faith; but "these all , having obtained a
good report through faith, received not the promise". What promise?

The "hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).

Paul proved that they had not inherited the promises by saying:
"These all [including Enoch] died in faith." verse 13

Enoch and all the worthies of old will receive the promise of eternal life
at the return of Christ, the same time Christians obtain it (Heb. 11:40)
 
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Semper-Fi

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In Enoch Phanuel so called was one of the four voices
Enoch heard praising God. He was or is not God.


He is the fourth voice heard [Enoch, Chapter 40:7]
"fending off the Satans (adversaries or accusers)

and forbidding them to come before [the Lord of spirits]
to accuse them who dwell on the earth".


If Phanuel is the Word or [Christ] above,
who is the [Lord of spirits] there then ?

Why is he listed forth?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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If Phanuel is the Word or [Christ] above,
who is the [Lord of spirits] there then ?

Why is he listed forth?
In Enoch, God the Word is not said to be the mighty angel Penuel.
Please read the entire Book of 1 Enoch/Ethiopian Enoch so that you don't just assume things like that.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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1 John 4:12 (KJV)
Jesus Himself said: No man hath seen God at any time.

John 1:18 (KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
...
Simper-Fi, when did God the Word declare Him?

Exodus 24:10, 11 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Ezekiel 1:26-28
And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man* (appearance of Adam -Hebrew word is Adam, here) above upon it.

And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

In Isaiah 6, Isaiah saw YHWH sitting on His throne in heaven, and John declares that Jesus/Yeshua was and is YHWH who was on that throne in heaven.
Isaiah saw Him.
Is 6:1
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

John 12:37-41

But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Also, in Isaiah 59 -read the whole chapter- YHWH puts on the garment of Yeshua/Salvation to be the Kinsman/Redeemer for the Adam creation.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Also, Semper-Fi, please read what Paul wrote about Enoch in Hebrews 11.
Paul said Enoch did not see death.

Hey 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

And also, please read the entire Enoch 1 before you make claims that are totally refuted there, about where Enoch is, and his own testimony about his body being changed to the garment of glory, to rule with the holy Watcher angels in heaven.
Enoch is a ruler in heaven, as the representative “Adam”, and is dwelling with and ruling with the Holy Watchers, over earth.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Why is Enoch translated and ruling with the Holy Watchers?
Study the Torah and learn the “Law of the firstborn son of the barren widow, in the Torah. The Barren widow is Jerusalem above, the second “husband” raises up His first son in the name of the deceased husband.
Adam was made to bring forth sons of God to build up Jerusalem above with those sons and to thereby “plant the heavens”. God says so.
Malachi 3:16 Wherefore did He make them one, having a remnant/residue of the (same) spirit (the Adam spirit)?
Yeshua is the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world).
He was always going to come, and He is come, and before He put on the flesh garment, He took a firstborn son of the Adam spirit creation and translated his body to the garment of glory, so that the inheritance given to Adam would not be lost.
Jerusalem is the bride, and she has a son named Adam, after her first “husband”, who is deceased in spirit.
Amazing information about the barren widow and her children who are the seed of the “second husband”, whose name is not “Adam”, but “Israel”.
Isaiah 49:1-8
 
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yeshuasavedme

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And Semper-Fi, Abraham got his own copy of the book of Enoch from Noah and Shem. In the history book of the chronologies of the Patriarchs from Adam to Joshua, called the Book of the Upright/Jasher, we read that when Nimrod wanted to kill Abram, his father, Terah ( who ruled Nimrod’s army), hid him and his mother in one of the fantastic caves in Syria, until he was age 10 and went to dwell with Noah and Shem until the fall of the Tower of Bab-el and the mixing up of the one language to the 70 (which have spread to over 6,000, but all are from Proto- Hebrew/Edenic).
Noah did not die until Abraham was 58 years old. Abraham died before Shem. Shem outlived Abraham, and in Genesis 14, Shem is the king of righteousness and the priest of the Most High God who gave the blessing of “firstborn” to Abraham, which Shem had received from Noah, which Noah received from his own grandfather, Methusaleh, son of Enoch, who gave Noah the Books of Enoch, and who did not die until one week before the flood.

So in the DSS, when we read Abraham’s own testimony in his own writing which states that he read to the men of pharaoh from the book of Enoch, who asked him to teach them wisdom, values and truth, when they returned Sarah to Abraham, then it is safe to say that Egypt became believers in the One True God at that time, through the writings of Enoch, for Paul states in Romans 1 that all men once knew, and changed the likeness of God into images of the creation or of their own creation.
And in the ancient Egyptian writings, before they corrupted the doctrine of God which Abraham taught them from the book of Enoch, they indeed worshipped the “AMEN”, the hidden God in heaven, and Jesus declares in Revelation that He is indeed “The Amen”, now revealed.
Revelation 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

So Egypt once knew and worshipped “the hidden God in heaven” whom Enoch saw, Hidden in God, whose name was secret, who was to come and be revealed, and is now revealed, as the Book of Revelation shows Him, as God who is come, and is coming, and who will Reign over His creation which Adam sold into corruption at the fall and which He, as Redeemer/Kinsman has paid the Ransom for by the shedding of His sinless blood, which was offered once, for all, and which the Law was a show and tell to teach about.

YHWH declares that Egypt will be returned to the worship of the God they once worshipped as the hidden God in heaven, and they will know His name.

Isaiah 19:22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.

They shall RETURN to YHWH.
If you doubt they once worshipped Him as Enoch wrote of Him because of Abraham teaching them, then read their own ancient writings about Him, before they corrupted the worship of Him. I wrote about those writings on this board somewhere.
Amen = Amen-Ra?

Romans 1:21-25

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 
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Randy777

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The Sadducees didn't believe in any resurrection. So asking Jesus such a question was a trap as Jesus knew.

Daniel 12 speaks of the resurrection and is scripture. "awake to everlasting life"

Jesus, being who He was, already understood "everlasting life" and the resurrected body. "Like the angels of God" "clothed with immortality"
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The Sadducees didn't believe in any resurrection. So asking Jesus such a question was a trap as Jesus knew.

Daniel 12 speaks of the resurrection and is scripture. "awake to everlasting life"

Jesus, being who He was, already understood "everlasting life" and the resurrected body. "Like the angels of God" "clothed with immortality"
Many OT verses speak of the resurrection to life and the resurrection to eternal damnation, , and the foundational doctrine for those references is laid in the book of Enoch.
 
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Randy777

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Many OT verses speak of the resurrection to life and the resurrection to eternal damnation, , and the foundational doctrine for those references is laid in the book of Enoch.
I don't know the book of Enoch. I have read Daniel 12. And Daniel was a prophet as in His source was God, the Spirit of prophecy, not the book of Enoch. You have not made a conclusive case that Jesus's source in regard to scriptures was the book of Enoch.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The Sadducees didn't believe in any resurrection. So asking Jesus such a question was a trap as Jesus knew.

Daniel 12 speaks of the resurrection and is scripture. "awake to everlasting life"

Jesus, being who He was, already understood "everlasting life" and the resurrected body. "Like the angels of God" "clothed with immortality"
Many OT verses speak of the resurrection to life and the resurrection to eternal damnation, , and the foundational doctrine for those references is laid in the book of Enoch.
I don't know the book of Enoch. I have read Daniel 12. And Daniel was a prophet as in His source was God, the Spirit of prophecy, not the book of Enoch. You have not made a conclusive case that Jesus's source in regard to scriptures was the book of Enoch.
Enoch was showing Daniel the things to come concerning his/Daniel's people which were written in the "Scripture of Truth" in heaven. Enoch read all things in the books written in heaven, as he said in his book. He came to answer Daniel's prayer 21 days before he came to Daniel, and told Daniel the prince of Persia withstood him (a principality of darkness ruling in the heaven over Persia, as Enoch was shown in his dream visions of the times beginning to end, about the 70 princes set over the nations to rule them -bad guys with legal authority to do so), and that Michael, the Chief Prince over Israel, came to help him, and they "bound" the prince of Persia ( to obey the Word written by Jeremiah), and so, that ruler of darkness had to "Let Israel Go".
Look at the entire book of Enoch and then read that passage in Daniel in the original wording.
So Enoch is ruling with the Watchers in heaven. He read the tablets in heaven to know all the things written there as the Scripture of Truth, and he told Daniel what was written. That is where Daniel got chapters 11 and 12 from.
 
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Randy777

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Many OT verses speak of the resurrection to life and the resurrection to eternal damnation, , and the foundational doctrine for those references is laid in the book of Enoch.
Enoch was showing Daniel the things to come concerning his/Daniel's people which were written in the "Scripture of Truth" in heaven. Enoch read all things in the books written in heaven, as he said in his book. He came to answer Daniel's prayer 21 days before he came to Daniel, and told Daniel the prince of Persia withstood him (a principality of darkness ruling in the heaven over Persia, as Enoch was shown in his dream visions of the times beginning to end, about the 70 princes set over the nations to rule them -bad guys with legal authority to do so), and that Michael, the Chief Prince over Israel, came to help him, and they "bound" the prince of Persia ( to obey the Word written by Jeremiah), and so, that ruler of darkness had to "Let Israel Go".
Look at the entire book of Enoch and then read that passage in Daniel in the original wording.
So Enoch is ruling with the Watchers in heaven. He read the tablets in heaven to know all the things written there as the Scripture of Truth, and he told Daniel what was written. That is where Daniel got chapters 11 and 12 from.
Where did you read Enoch answered Daniels prayer?
 
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