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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Many try to separate “works” from “faith” and say they are entirely two different things. While it is true that faith can mean a belief. While it is true we do need to be saved by God's grace without the deeds of the Law (or works) by believing, that does not mean faith is simply a belief alone our entire Christian walk. I believe the “work of faith” mentioned by Paul two times is an essential aspect of our faith. Meaning, many will say that we are saved by God's grace through faith, but they do not include the aspect of faith that includes the “work of faith.”

“Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;” (1 Thessalonians 1:3).

“Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faithwith power:” (2 Thessalonians 1:11).

James says,

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:18).

James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).

This is why we are justified by works as James says (See: James 2:24).
Why? Because the “work of faith” is a part of our “faith.” It's why it is called the “work of faith.”
 

Albion

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Many try to separate “works” from “faith” and say they are entirely two different things.
They are two different things.

While it is true that faith can mean a belief. While it is true we do need to be saved by God's grace without the deeds of the Law (or works) by believing, that does not mean faith is simply a belief alone our entire Christian walk.
Anyone who actually understands Faith also understands that Faith produces Works. That is not a problem.

I believe the “work of faith” mentioned by Paul two times is an essential aspect of our faith.
Sure.

Meaning, many will say that we are saved by God's grace through faith, but they do not include the aspect of faith that includes the “work of faith.”
Meaning what? "Include the aspect of faith that includes...." :scratch:

This is why we are justified by works as James says (See: James 2:24).
Oh dear. You did all that work and came up with the wrong conclusion.

Why? Because the “work of faith” is a part of our “faith.” It's why it is called the “work of faith.”

It is a "part" in the sense of being a necessary consequence of a true Faith. However, these works do not contribute to our prospects for salvation; that is entirely a matter of Faith made possible through Grace.

Consider Matthew Poole's commentary on James--
...he takes upon him to maintain good works, not as necessary to justification, but as the effects, signs, and evidences of it, and such as without which their faith was vain, and themselves in an unjustified state.
 
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plain jayne

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The faith produced the work. The work did not produce the faith.

Paul is clear that we are saved by grace through faith and then....we are to do the works that God prepared for us. Not vice versa. Ephesians 2:8-10

There aren't enough old ladies one can help across the street or enough $$$ to give to the poor that makes us have faith in Christ. BUT once we have faith in Christ, we will do those things and much much more.
 
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Acts2:38

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Romans 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing the word

By the very meaning of the word to hear, someone is doing an action. A work if you will. So in essence, by hearing the word you are indeed doing a work.

Furthermore, baptism, believing, etc, these are not works of man. It is a work of God, something we are required to do.
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).
However, when people do not want to see, they can be very blind, as the Pharisees frequently demonstrated. Jesus told the formerly blind man, " And Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind'" (John 9:39). That continues to be true today.

Lets use baptism for example as one of the excuses against baptism are "it is a work, so not necessary":

The reason for baptism is that it represents Jesus' resurrection. Romans 6:3-4

It is a question of "what are you being saved from?". Acts 2:38 "for the remission of sins" Acts 22:16 - "wash away your sins"

Also, baptism's power comes not from the water ( "act of a good conscience toward God" 1Pet3), but from the resurrection of Jesus. Paul explains how this works:

"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin" (Romans 6:3-7).

That is why Ananias told Paul, "And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

In John 9.

Just like Jesus commands those who would be spiritually healed to be baptized, washed in water (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; John 3:3-5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Romans 6:1-4; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12; I Peter 3:21), Jesus commanded the blind man to go wash in the pool of Siloam. What I find interesting is that this healing of the blind man causes quite a stir regarding work. After all, the healing occurred on the Sabbath.

The Pharisees were very upset that work was done on the Sabbath. However, do you notice nobody accuses the blind man of working on the Sabbath? Nobody thought the blind man had violated the Law about working? No. They accused Jesus of working. They understood what so many miss today. The blind man wasn’t working when he went and washed in the pool of Siloam. In this healing, who did the work? Jesus. Just so, when we go wash in the immersive waters of baptism, we are not doing any work. God is working (see Colossians 2:12 again).

Therefore, with baptism as an example, salvation in baptism is not my work, it is God’s.

To the subject of repenting and confessing should the baptism subject not convince, are you saved before or after repenting and confessing?

If after, you are actually "working" before being saved. Repenting and confessing are done by action. Therefore to be saved, repenting and confessing Christ, you are working (verb, action word) to be saved. This is if we use proponents of saved before baptism people who love to use Eph 2:8-9 as their excuse to nullify the importance of baptism.

Either way, one is DOING SOMETHING to be saved.

Luckily hearing, believing, repenting, confessing, being baptized, are all works of God, not man.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believe - pisteuo in the Greek, is a verb. Action required.

The OP uses the correct scripture to bring a valid point. Many will dismiss it to their own doom 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; Matthew 7:21-27
 
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Kenny'sID

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By the very meaning of the word to hear, someone is doing an action. A work if you will. So in essence, by hearing the word you are indeed doing a work.

Honestly, I don't think that is what the bible means by works.
 
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Albion

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Romans 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing the word

By the very meaning of the word to hear, someone is doing an action. A work if you will.

No, that's not what "a work" means, Biblically or theologically speaking.

The word is used to refer to something that is meritorious, specifically towards achieving salvation. Merely moving a muscle or operating one's sense organs is NOT what "a work" means.
 
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Acts2:38

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Honestly, I don't think that is what the bible means by works.

I was using the same excuse proponents against baptism use.

No, that's not what "a work" means, Biblically or theologically speaking.

The word is used to refer to something that is meritorious, specifically towards achieving salvation. Merely moving a muscle or operating one's sense organs is NOT what "a work" means.

It is indeed for that reason proponents against baptism use. That someone is working to be saved. So THAT is exactly what I called out. Repenting and confessing to be saved is as the same work used that baptism would use. Please do not try to tell me otherwise as if I am that naive.
 
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Albion

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It is indeed for that reason proponents against baptism use. That someone is working to be saved.
True. I've even read some of them saying that if you show up for your baptism, that's a "work" because you had to move your legs and walk into the church, etc. :doh:
 
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Acts2:38

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True. I've even read some of them saying that if you show up for your baptism, that's a "work" because you had to move your legs and walk into the church, etc. :doh:

Thats why they always use eph 2:8-9 all the time as their trump card
 
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Mr. M

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Works are faith in action.

Works are proof we have faith....they must go hand in hand.

The work of faith is not individual effort, it is the body of Christ working together in hypostasis.
Hebrews 11:1. Now faith is the assurance [hypostasis] of things hoped for....
Hebrews 3:14. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our
assurance [hypostasis] firm until the end.
What does "partaker of Christ" mean to you?
Paul was not speaking to individuals, he was writing to a functioning church
.
1 Thessalonians 1:3. remembering without ceasing your(pl) work of faith, labor of love,
and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father.
Yeshua was not speaking to individuals, but to a functioning church.
Revelation 2:
2
I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil.
And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have
not become weary.

19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last
more than the first.

Galatians 5:6. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything,
but faith working through love.

The Work of Faith Is Love, Above All Else
We are called to be "beloved brethren" agapao adelphos 1 Thessalonians 1:4
 
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They are two different things.


Anyone who actually understands Faith also understands that Faith produces Works. That is not a problem.


Sure.


Meaning what? "Include the aspect of faith that includes...." :scratch:


Oh dear. You did all that work and came up with the wrong conclusion.



It is a "part" in the sense of being a necessary consequence of a true Faith. However, these works do not contribute to our prospects for salvation; that is entirely a matter of Faith made possible through Grace.

Consider Matthew Poole's commentary on James--

Again, it's called a “work of faith” which means that it is a part of the “faith.” Yes, faith and works can be different, because faith can be a belief, but faith is also connected to works also because there is this thing called the “work of faith” that Paul mentions that certain Christians do not like.
 
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Albion

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Again, it's called a “work of faith” which means that it is a part of the “faith.”

No, it doesn't. That may be the interpretation you choose to put on it, but that isn't the meaning.

A work of faith means a work that flows from a faith or a work that results from there being a genuine faith or is a consequence of faith. But it does not mean that faith and works functioning together is what merits salvation.
 
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No, it doesn't. That may be the interpretation you choose to put on it, but that isn't the meaning.

A work of faith means a work that flows from a faith or a work that results from there being a genuine faith or is a consequence of faith. But it does not mean that faith and works functioning together is what merits salvation.

Well, I am not negating that the “work of faith” flows out of having “faith” (belief) in Jesus Christ as our Savior, and faith (belief) in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (Which is how we are initially and foundationally saved). This means that “faith” and the “work of faith” are connected and they cannot be separated once faith is put into action. For there is no true faith (that lives itself out) that is without works of faith. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Take for example the topic of love in the Bible. Jesus asked Peter multiple times if he loved Him. This is a mental love, and an emotional love that showed loyalty to Christ. But Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Why? Because true love always manifests itself with labour (work) of love. This is why Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruit. They have no true labour (work) of love. They may even pretend to do wonderful works in His name, but if they also work sin or iniquity, they are not working the true labour (work) of love. The point here is that love is connected to having the labour of love that the Bible talks about (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (Hebrews 6:10). In fact, what did Jesus say to Peter as His point in asking Peter that He loved Him? Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep. This was a part of loving Jesus. This was a labour (work) of love that Jesus wanted Peter to realize. Peter could not just have a mental love of Jesus alone with that being sufficient. That would not be true love. True love always shows itself in loving actions. The same is true with faith. A true faith is always followed by the work of faith. The work of faith is inevitable as a result of faith. It breathes out of faith and they are connected together. By faith Noah built the ark. By faith, Abraham offered Isaac upon the alter. I could keep going, but hopefully this help you to see where I am coming from.
 
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The faith produced the work. The work did not produce the faith.

Paul is clear that we are saved by grace through faith and then....we are to do the works that God prepared for us. Not vice versa. Ephesians 2:8-10

There aren't enough old ladies one can help across the street or enough $$$ to give to the poor that makes us have faith in Christ. BUT once we have faith in Christ, we will do those things and much much more.

Most Christians I am aware of do not advocate works before having faith in Jesus Christ. Most of them I know advocate that we must first have faith in Jesus Christ and salvation in Him, and the gospel before we are able to do any work of faith. For that is why it is called a work of faith because it comes from out of faith. They are connected. Work of faith is a part of having faith. So this means that if we are saved by God's grace through faith, our faith will continue and manifest itself in time to have the work of faith. If no work of faith exists, then it is a false faith. For faith without works is dead. Yes, we are saved by God's grace through faith (belief) and not of works. This is how we are initially and foundationally saved. But faith continues and manifests itself to include the work of faith. Faith does not remain as a belief alone without any work of faith. For James says he will show you his faith by his works. That is how he can prove his faith. By his work of faith.
 
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The work of faith is not individual effort, it is the body of Christ working together in hypostasis.
Hebrews 11:1. Now faith is the assurance [hypostasis] of things hoped for....
Hebrews 3:14. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our
assurance [hypostasis] firm until the end.
What does "partaker of Christ" mean to you?
Paul was not speaking to individuals, he was writing to a functioning church
.
1 Thessalonians 1:3. remembering without ceasing your(pl) work of faith, labor of love,
and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father.
Yeshua was not speaking to individuals, but to a functioning church.
Revelation 2:
2
I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil.
And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have
not become weary.

19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last
more than the first.

Galatians 5:6. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything,
but faith working through love.

The Work of Faith Is Love, Above All Else
We are called to be "beloved brethren" agapao adelphos 1 Thessalonians 1:4

Great post.
Well said, brother.

May the Lord's love and blessings be upon you today.
 
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Kenny'sID

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The work of faith is not individual effort, it is the body of Christ working together in hypostasis.

Hebrews 11:1. Now faith is the assurance [hypostasis] of things hoped for....
Hebrews 3:14. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our
assurance [hypostasis] firm until the end.
What does "partaker of Christ" mean to you?
Paul was not speaking to individuals, he was writing to a functioning church
.
1 Thessalonians 1:3. remembering without ceasing your(pl) work of faith, labor of love,
and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father.
Yeshua was not speaking to individuals, but to a functioning church.
Revelation 2:
2
I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil.
And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have
not become weary.

19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last
more than the first.

Galatians 5:6. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything,
but faith working through love.

The Work of Faith Is Love, Above All Else
We are called to be "beloved brethren" agapao adelphos 1 Thessalonians 1:4

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Just elaborating, with some scriptures to back us up! :)

Ok, thanks, I think I kinda got lost in all that.

It is us that has the faith, as in the verse you quoted that states, your faith.

19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last
more than the first

I'm just trying to keep it uncomplicatedfor those wh need that. :)
 
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It is us that has the faith, as in the verse you quoted that states, your faith.
Paul was not speaking to individuals, he was writing to a functioning church.
1 Thessalonians 1:3. remembering without ceasing your(pl) work of faith, labor of love,
and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father.
Faith is something we share, as an expression of love.
Galatians 5:6. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything,
but faith working through love.


The Work of Faith Is Love, Above All Else
We are called to be "beloved brethren" agapao adelphos 1 Thessalonians 1:4
I know I posted a lot, but it is hopefully for edification, in meditation.:amen:
 
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