concretecamper
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The church must be catholic!
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Thomas White
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Just to clarify, the HRC Church is based in Vatican City, not Italy. The Holy See is a separate state.
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Pathfinder627
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"Roman Catholic" is the world's greatest oxymoron.
But I do think many are part of the Catholic church.
But I do think many are part of the Catholic church.
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The word it in that verse represents the gospel key. The gates of hell could never prevail against it. It prevailed against Peter and his false pride the things of men 3 verses down.
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The faithless Jews who refused to hear the word of God but rather did whatsoever their own mouths as oral traditions of the fathers used the flesh of Abraham as if he was our one unseen Holy Father in heaven .
Catholiscim that continued that manner used Peter under the same law of men called a law of the fathers .
When looking at one of the think not loving commandments simply replace the name Abraham with Peter. Jesus said if he desired so the Father can bring born again children from a rock or stone.
Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Many lively stones make up the spirutl unseen house of God the church the bride of Christ . Mary is simply one of them that walked by faith the unseen will of our Holy Father. .
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
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When looking at the proper translation of the Mathew 16 and Mathew 18 account , the proper order of inspiration is shown . Inspired from above not Rome earthly. Then a person can rightfully divide the John 20 reference.
Mathew 18:18 YLT Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.
Mathew 18:18 EXB“I tell you the truth, ·the things [whatever] you ·don’t allow [forbid; L bind] on earth will be ·the things God does not allow [forbidden/bound in heaven]. And ·the things [whatever] you ·allow [permit; L loose] on earth will be ·the things that God allows [permitted/L loosed in heaven].”
The church is not a Devine authority .As born again believers they have the treasure of His power working in there new hearts but it would be blasphemy to say it is of. coming from a dying creation .
If a persons heart is in Rome than give it to Cesar.
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
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concretecamper
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What?
The Church HAS been granted Divine authority. Jesus (God, 2nd person of the Trinity) has given that Authority.
The Church Jesus planted, will follow the same path Christ followed. It will preach the Word of God, then suffer and endure a great passion, and will rise and be presented as a spotless lamb (just as scripture tells us)
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The church is not a authority it has one not seen but it is not of flesh and blood.(the Church seen) It comes from above .Where are new born again hearts are .Not earthly of Rome or earthly Jerusalem .Either Christ provides all the power to begin the good work of salvation and finish it to the end. We work it out as he empowers us. We do not work to gain it.
Three verse you can look at ...
He is our confidence, we lovingly commanded to put zero confidence in the flesh (things we do )
(1) Philippians1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
(2) Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
All born again believer have the treasure of His power working in their earthen bodies of death by which he works to both will and empower them to do the good works he has prepared beforehand hand . No power comes from the flesh which is rendered dead.
(3) 2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
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I thanks for the reply.
I would agree if we obey the loving commandment of God according to 2 Timothy 2:15 we can seek the approval of the eternal one who alone is the infallible good Master as Teacher..
In Job He infallibly informs us he is not a man and neither is there any infallible fleshly man that stands between our heavenly Holy Father not seen and man seen as a umpire called a Daysman or what some label as a Pope.
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
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Then you would have me quote the oral private traditions of sinful men as private interpretations. . personal commentaries and not the interpretation of God as it is written ? How would that aid in finding the truth of our unseen Holy Father?
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Fidelibus
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That's not what I asked garee. What I did ask "you" is..... "Would you agree, everything "YOU" say here on this forum, outside of quoting Scripture directly, and keeping with Protestant theology is nothing more than "YOUR" fallible, personal, non-authoritative opinion/ interpretation and is subject to error?
I will ask the same of you here as I did on a different thread.
"If it is your belief that Jesus was the only human who was "infallible," then what you are basically saying is that the writers of the various books of the Bible were not infallible when they were writing their particular books of Scripture. Is this what you a claiming? Was not Paul infallible when he wrote his epistles? Were the gospel writers not infallible when they wrote the gospels? If they weren't, then you are essentially saying there could be errors in the Bible...that the Bible is not infallible. So, do you believe the writers of Scripture were infallible or not?
Have a Blessed Day!
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concretecamper
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sure it is, St Paul tells Timothy to listen to the Church. Do you follow scripture?
maybe someone else can follow these incomplete sentences.
we are born again through Baptism, we become a new creation. I'm just following what scripture says and what the Church has taught for close to 2,000 years....you?
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Sorry for the extra work, my grammar is not something I would hold up.
I was trying to point it out the one direction of inspiration.(1) Coming down like rain, not (2) rising up from the earth, by saying where your heart is there you find the treasure and power of God . If it’s earthly inspired of Rome earthly men follow the Pope. . or heavenly of our unseen Holy Father men worship God unseen by that faith that works from within the new born again creation..
Our Holy Father, Holy See not seen with the human eye in heaven has made up promises that only he could keep.
John 14: 25;26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
In the verse above, God our one Holy Father in heaven whose name is Jealous. This is seeing he alone owns all things. Our heavenly Father not only lays claim to be our one infallible teacher guide ,comforter but also the born again spirit that works in mankind who brings what he has taught us to our new born again hearts.
We have that power in us but never to assume it is of us (blasphemy)
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
I am just following all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) which begins in Genesis 1 and ends in the last chapter Revelation 21. sealed with 7 seals and warning not to add or subtract form the whole Bible.
By it and through it, as it is written we can seek the approval of Him who does lovingly commands us to do so. (Not just a good suggestion)
2 Timothy 2:15-16 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Men who follow other men in a hierarchy the self-appointed venerable lording it over the non-venerable (Kings, princes and fathers) they perform it as a law unto themselves which some call “apostolic succession”. They are revealed as those follow the pagan foundation. “Out of sight out of mind” (who needs a God as a Father not seen) . They are shown murdering men and woman, Christians in Acts 22.
When one is converted from above (Paul) they seek after them to try and make desolate their foundation (sola scriptura) inspired from above. Murdering the messenger hoping the message of the gospel (sola scriptura) dies with them again “out of sight out of mind”.
Paul experienced that kind of upside down inspiration as a law of the fathers when he joined his new denomination the Nazarene, sect .
Paul under the influence of our Holy Father in heaven revealed that the temple made with humans hands was a abomination..it was made desolate when the veil was rent. they tried to Judge born again Paul by their own law as oral tradition of men .
Acts 24:5-6 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.
. . . (And not the law of God, as it is written.)
They tried to prove the law of our one Holy Father, Holy See in heaven (sola scriptura) was heresy but could not.
Paul inspired by the words of our father in heaven revealed to them as to that which they called heresy(all things written in the law and the prophets) By that which they called heresy he worshipped the God of the fathers not legion of father as gods in the likeness of men.
It’s easy to see they had a hope towards men called fathers they walked away in unbelief . . no faith coming from all things which are written in the law and in the prophets, alone.
Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Toward God . . where our treasure is, not earthly towards Jerusalem or Rome.
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Yes I offer my fallible opinion called a “private interpretation” as a personal commentary as to what I believe my heavenly Holy Father is teaching and bringing to my memory the things he has taught the believers. .(John 14)
Just like any man of flesh and blood. It’s how we can seek His approval as we are lovingly commanded to do. The apostles were not moved by their own will (private interpretation) . We know from Paul before he was converted as to what the will of men called a law of the father was capable of doing .Murdering Christians as in out of sight out of mind.
First things first. . .
2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Jesus the Son of man the first born of the brethren (not first of the fathers) is the chief apostle and High Priest . He was sent by the Father as a son he did not do the will of his own flesh. Again not the will of His flesh.
He had food or power that the disciples knew not of. . again to do the will of the unseen Holy Father. Our Father in heaven alone is the infallible good Master. call no man on earth Father or good Master teacher. One is our Lord in heaven
Even Jesus the Son of man refused to claim he was infallible. He revealed his flesh profits for zero.(John 6)
Remember the work of salvation is always in respect to two as one God . No Son of man, seen workings with the unseen father then there is no peace of God. A person in that way denies both the father and the Son.
Two working as one the unseen Father in a greater position not a greater person.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son
Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
John 4:33-34 King James Version (KJV) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
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ViaCrucis
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Not sure how it's an oxymoron.
The use of "Roman", at least within Catholicism itself, refers to the Roman or Latin Rite, distinct from other historic western rites such as the Mozarabic Rite, the African Rite, or the Celtic Rite; generally speaking the Latin or Roman Rite is what most think of when they think of Catholicism. However Eastern Rite Catholics, such as Byzantine Rite and Maronite Rite are still Catholics.
Now, that's really more of the internal language of Catholicism. Generally, however most of us non-Catholics understand "Roman" less as about referring to liturgical rite, and more about the central importance placed upon the Roman See. That is, it is "Roman" because the Roman See is considered the highest seat of ecclesiastical authority, with the bishop of Rome viewed as the temporal head of Christ's Church.
In either case, this doesn't really contradict Catholicism's view that it is the Church Catholic. It sees itself as nothing more and nothing less than the universal Christian Church founded by Jesus Christ.
So it's not an oxymoron.
One does not have to agree with the particular claims--I certainly don't--but there isn't anything oxymoronic about it.
Speaking as a Lutheran, I just simply don't agree with a number of significant ecclesiastical views which Rome has.
-CryptoLutheran
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Fidelibus
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So you would admit, what "you believe" in your private interpretation of Scripture has 'zero' authority over anyone but yourself and could be wrong..... Right?
Again, everything you posted above, outside of quoting Scripture directly is nothing more than your admitted fallible, non-authoritive, opinion, and personal interpretation that could very well be in error......Right? A Yes or No would suffice.
Have a Blessed Day!
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Yes, no different than any others persons private interpretation or commentary on the word of God inspired from above..
I don't think the Holy Spirit would to study his written word as a way of seeking His approval (2 Timothy 2:15 ) and then say seek the approval of another's man commentary.
The bible says there must be private interpretation as heiresses our opinions among us. And it also informs us that we cannot judge them unless they deny the Lord that bought us.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
In Act 24 we can se the work of sola scriptura with two sects that put aside their differences that lord in over the non venerable pew sitters going after Paul if the new sect (heresy) called the Nazarene sect or called the Way .The first denomination listed on the new testament.
They tried to prove their private as a law of the fathers(legion) rose above the interpretation of the Holy Spirit (all things written in the law and the prophet). Paul explained to them that which they call heresy(sola scriptura) he worshiped or venerated our unseen Holy Father . Rather than venerating men as if they were in the place of God by their own law oral traditions of man..
Act 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
I would think we would worship the God of the fathers, kings and princes rather than putting them in His unseen place (heaven?
What about you? Things of men seen or those of God not seen the eternal ?
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