FreeGrace2
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Once saved always saved. False?
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Peace, and blessings be unto you. I am glad to hear it, Jim. There were a few misunderstandings I had along the way in my walk with the LORD, as well. Even one individual I considered to be an enemy of the cross (and who treated me like an enemy) had shown me what a verse was really saying one time.
So sometimes God has a funny way of teaching us.
God bless you, Jim.
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This will be the LAST TIME I speak to you on this issue.
The Bible PROMISED that you would not be able to understand
[Daniel 12:8-10]. So your inability to understand this Biblical Truth
does not negate the Truth, it only confirms what the Bible promised.
The five "Kingdoms of Heaven" could not be ONE Kingdom
since the 5th Kingdom is Eternal and contains ONLY the Saints
from each previous (temporal) Kingdom. All previous Kingdoms
had both saved and unsaved people.
(1) The Pre-Flood Kingdom was a different world,
containing a different class of people and different Gospel.
(2) The Jewish Kingdom was a different world,
containing a different class of people and different Gospel.
(3) The Christian Kingdom was a different time period,
containing a different class of people and different Gospel.
(4) The Great Tribulation Kingdom was a different time period,
containing a different class of people and different Gospel.
(5) The Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is eternal,
containing all the Saints from the previous four Kingdoms.
I understand this Biblical Truth immediately and completely
destroys your current "gospel". But that fact, and your inability
to accept this Truth, does not change anything, and was foretold.
Jim
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FreeGrace2
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And this will be the last time I have to correct your error.
Look in a mirror when you say this.
Let me explain this AGAIN, ok?
The "kingdom of heaven" is NEVER referred to in the plural. That, Jim, proves your theory wrong. You've counted 5, but nowhere in Scripture are ANY of your so-called kingdoms NAMED at all.
When Jesus used the phrase, it was always singular. There is just ONE kingdom of heaven.
Now, what you seem unable to comprehend, because Daniel prophesied that you wouldn't, is that there are different groups of people being mentioned at different time frames of history, ALL OF WHICH are included in God's singular "Kingdom of Heaven".
What you can't do is refute this fact. All you can do is disagree and reject it.
But it's the truth nonetheless.
Nope. Just a different time frame. God didn't create "different worlds".
Wow, you just really like to fantasize about so many "different" things: kingdoms, classes of people, and even Gospels.
Since you can't show ANY of the many scholars you shared your theories with having agreed with you, you are standing alone in your fantasies.
And 2 Tim 3:15 proves there is only 1 gospel which saves. As I have previously shared with you.
If you are correct, it should be easy to cite any verse/passage that shows a "different gospel for the pre-flood humans.
Nope. The Jews lived in the SAME WORLD as everyone else.
If true, it should be easy for you to cite any verse/passage in the OT to prove your claim of the Jews having a "different gospel".
Well, now you're on to something. Yes, each of these people groups are from different time periods. Glad to see you noticed.
2 Tim 3:15 proves you dead wrong.
Now you're cooking!
You've proved nothing.
You are just hilarious, Jim. There is just the gospel of Jesus Christ, known in the OT as the Messiah, and as Christ in the NT.
What you cannot do is prove your theory about "different worlds" and "different gospels", or you would have by now.
All you have done is talk about your fantasies/theories. You've not shown any evidence for any of them.
Oh, and the fact that NONE of all the scholars you sent your website to have agreed with you.
Your website about "5 kingdoms" is all alone on the web.
No one agrees with your theories. And especially not the Bible.
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Dan 12:8
And I heard, but I understood not:
then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up
and sealed till the time of the end. [also called the "Season and Time"
in Daniel 7:11-12] 10 Many [the "wise virgins"] shall be purified,
and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:
and none of the wicked shall understand;
but the wise shall understand.
BTW, I am not the only "wise virgins" left on earth.
There is a small remnant of us who will be "changed"
in the "twinkling of an eye" in the near future...
meaning months, not years. No, I have no idea of
the "day and hour" of His Return, but I do know that
the last "sign" before His Return has been fulfilled.
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-4
Jim
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FreeGrace2
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How come your "5 kingdoms" website is the ONLY ONE on the web then? Do you speak for all those who agree with you?
From 1 Cor 15, Paul was referring to the rapture when Jesus returns to earth at the 2nd Advent. All believers alive on earth at that time will certainly be changed in the twinkling of an eye, as Paul said.
And what sign is this? I'll bet you will deflect, as always, and not even reveal your view about it.
Jesus won't return until the 7 year Tribulation is OVER. In fact, it is His return that ends the Tribulation.
And those familiar with the Bible know that.
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The website is the ONLY ONE because if fulfills Daniel 12:8-10.
It is a collaborative effort between ALL the "wise virgins" still
alive.
So you do not disagree with me that the Last Saints
(called the "wise virgins" in Matthew 25) will be "changed"
at the time of the resurrection. I am glad to see that, after all
this time, we can agree on at least one thing.
Please be more honest when talking with me.
I could not "deflect" from this issue when I sent you a link
that answers the question in the last post. If you are not willing
to READ my answer that does not mean I am "deflecting" it only
means you are not looking for truth, but only looking to attack.
That is YOUR problem, not mine.
It is NOT TRUE that Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation...
there is a brief period of time on earth AFTER the destruction of
the Revelation Beast (at the END of the 2nd Woe/Sixth Trumpet)
and the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet, (and beginning of the
3rd (eternal) Woe).
Revelation 11:14 shows that. The "Season and Time" [Dan 7:11-12]
shows that. The time BETWEEN Rev 19:20 and 20:10 shows that
and there are several (about a half-dozen Scriptures) that show
that. If you want to learn more Biblical Truth about this issue
you are can read chapters 1.2 and 1.3 on the link below:
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
Secondly, the Great Tribulation is NOT seven years.
That "theory" can not possibly be correct because it contradicts
MANY Scriptures and was developed during a time when the Bible
PROMISED the Truth would be "closed-up" and "sealed". So to argue that "theory" is correct is to argue that Daniel 12:8-10 is a lie.
The Great Tribulation Kingdom and the Revelation Beast(s) and
Daniel's Fourth Kingdom/Beast last for a period of 3.5
"times/days/years/watches of the night". You can
learn the details of this time on the link below:
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-8
Since the Bible PROMISES that the truth about this subject
remains "closed-up" and "sealed" until the "time-of-the-end"
[Daniel 12:8-10], which is also shown as the "Season and Time"
we can know that (and I quote you) "those familiar with the Bible..."
could NEVER know the Truth on this issue because their "theories"
were developed during a time when the BIBLE PROMISED that
the Truth would be "sealed". It is really as simple as that.
Jim
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@5thKingdom
By the way, thank you again for your humble acceptance of Scripture.
I created a thread for all us believers to share on what we have misunderstood in our growing knowledge of God's Word over the years. I shared about 12 things that I misunderstood in the Scriptures over the years. You can check that out here:
What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?
Peace and blessings be unto you in the Lord (even if we disagree on other things).
By the way, thank you again for your humble acceptance of Scripture.
I created a thread for all us believers to share on what we have misunderstood in our growing knowledge of God's Word over the years. I shared about 12 things that I misunderstood in the Scriptures over the years. You can check that out here:
What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?
Peace and blessings be unto you in the Lord (even if we disagree on other things).
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FreeGrace2
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FreeGrace2 said: ↑
How come your "5 kingdoms" website is the ONLY ONE on the web then? Do you speak for all those who agree with you?
I said:
"And what sign is this? I'll bet you will deflect, as always,
and not even reveal your view about it."
And this is what I have found: NONE of what you have posted is found in Scripture. Your "understanding" of Scripture is woefully lacking.
Rev 19 describes the "Rider coming on a white horse". That's King Jesus.
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
You have been refuted AND checkmated. You have no out. This chapter destroys your fallacies.
So,each half is 3.5 years. Do the math. Adds up to 7 years.
How come your "5 kingdoms" website is the ONLY ONE on the web then? Do you speak for all those who agree with you?
Well, you're the special one, huh.
OK. Where are their names in your website? Why aren't there? By "all the wise virgins", are you saying that there are only 10 of you?
Your "understanding" of Scripture is amazingly inadequate. The wise and foolish virgins were in a parable. Jesus wasn't speaking of real people.
I said:
"And what sign is this? I'll bet you will deflect, as always,
and not even reveal your view about it."
I've been directly honest with you.
I got no "link" other than your own website.
I do what the Bereans did with Paul's preaching. I search the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul/Jim/whoever says is true.
And this is what I have found: NONE of what you have posted is found in Scripture. Your "understanding" of Scripture is woefully lacking.
Again, you are woefully lacking in understanding. What ENDS the Trib is the return of Jesus. Anyone familiar with the Bible knows that.
Rev 19 describes the "Rider coming on a white horse". That's King Jesus.
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
You have been refuted AND checkmated. You have no out. This chapter destroys your fallacies.
You just keep embarrassing yourself with all these extremely erroneous claims.
Both numbers of days (1290 and 1335) refers to the last half of the Tribulation, give or take a few days.
So,each half is 3.5 years. Do the math. Adds up to 7 years.
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Marc Perry
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I'm not sure if you're trying to say if he thought it was unbiblical. He was a very early protestant, so everything he did had to be extremely well justified from both scripture and history. The Catholics would have destroyed him otherwise. Like I said, I just read one paragraph in that article. But it is very hard for me to imagine him going against scripture.
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Marc Perry
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All you do is quote chosen sentences from the bible that seem to agree with your preconceived whatever-it-is you have going on. There are other passages too. And if you care to dig deeper into that, you can look into the Greek and see the translators can only translate so much. And if you dig even deeper, you question why people hundreds of years after Christ added books to the bible that weren't even written by the apostles.
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Marc Perry
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Seriously, though. You're just angry and looking at scripture as an excuse.
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FreeGrace2
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FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Did Calvin admit that double predestination was unbiblical?
Did Calvin admit that double predestination was unbiblical?
The reason I asked was that it seemed as if he didn't agree with double predestination.
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FreeGrace2
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FreeGrace2 said: ↑
How come your "5 kingdoms" website is the ONLY ONE on the web then? Do you speak for all those who agree with you?
Well, you're the special one, huh.
OK. Where are their names in your website? Why aren't there? By "all the wise virgins", are you saying that there are only 10 of you?
I am pointing out to 5kingdoms that his view cannot be proven from Scripture and his website is the only one on the web. That speaks volumes.
He won't even say who agrees with him, or how many of the extensive list of scholars he sent his website to disagree with him.
Transparent, he is not.
How come your "5 kingdoms" website is the ONLY ONE on the web then? Do you speak for all those who agree with you?
Well, you're the special one, huh.
OK. Where are their names in your website? Why aren't there? By "all the wise virgins", are you saying that there are only 10 of you?
No, I'm not angry at all. And what excuse am I looking for?
I am pointing out to 5kingdoms that his view cannot be proven from Scripture and his website is the only one on the web. That speaks volumes.
He won't even say who agrees with him, or how many of the extensive list of scholars he sent his website to disagree with him.
Transparent, he is not.
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Marc Perry
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I am so sorry. I was not talking to you at all. I meant to talk to 5. I was just quickly flipping through the posts and added yours instead.
My point to him was that he was picking and choosing certain three words he liked from scripture, and ignoring all the rest.
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Angry about what?
Looking for an "excuse" about what?
What (exactly) have I said that was incorrect, or made you
think I am angry, or looking for an "excuse"?
Jim
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(1) First, as it says in the first paragraph of the first chapter of the website,
the ONLY measure of Biblical Truth is harmony of ALL RELATED Scripture.
It is in Chapter 1.1
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
(2) Secondly, if you care to read further, in Chapter 1.2 the "Season and Time" is revealed.
This is the same period that Daniel 12:8-10 calls the "time of the end" and the same time
between Revelation 19:20 and 20:10 and the same time between the end of the 2nd Woe
and start of the 3rd Woe in Revelation 11:14.
(3) Thirdly, if you care to read further, in Chapter 1.3 you will see five (5) examples of Scriptures
talking about this "Season and Time" or "time-of-the-end" and the "Final Harvest" of the
Last Saints on earth (called the "wise virgins" in Matthew 25:1-13) just before the destruction
of the Revelation Beast.
(4) Finally, if you think you have ONE VERSE of Scripture that contradicts anything on the site,
or anything I have said on this forum... you only need to offer that Scripture for analysis.
To simply say I do not harmonize all related passages - is to say nothing at all.
Do you want to offer an "example"?
Jim
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First, I must tell you that your "theory" about the 1290 and 1335 days cannot
possibly be correct because that "theory" (which did not originate with you) was
developed during a time when the BIBLE PROMISES the Truth about the Revelation
Beast/Great Tribulation/Daniel's Fourth Beast would remain "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all saints. So either that "theory" (which is not yours) is incorrect or the Bible is wrong
when it PROMISES the Truth would not be known until the Last Saints "shall understand"
during the "time-of-the-end" [Dan 12:8-10] or the "Season and Time" [Dan 7:11-12]
The Bible speaks of the Great Tribulation Kingdom and/or Revelation Beast
as being the "night" when no man can work. The Bible shows this period as
four (4) "watches of the night"... which are "shortened" for the sake of the elect
[Mat 24:22] making the duration of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast a period
shown as 3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and 3.5 "years" and 3.5 "watches of the night".
The Bible speaks of this period in over TWO DOZEN different passages.
So, before you can even pretend to understand the Biblical Truth on this subject
you would have to HARMONIZE over two dozen passages... which you did not even
attempt to do. I will give you a few examples of different passages talking about this
same period of 3.5 "watches of the night".
The "Woman" which was hidden from the face of the "serpent"
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]
The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]
The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" [into the Anti-Christ's hand]
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]
The "Witnesses" which are first "overcome" and later "killed" by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]
The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot"
for forty-two months or 3.5 "years" [Rev 11]
The "Beast" that "overcomes" the Last Saints, as the Anti-Christ "makes war"
with them for forty-two months or 3.5 "years" [Rev 13]
This is only a few examples of the TWO DOZEN passages talking about the event
known as Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation" which (1) occurs during the FOURTH
Kingdom/Beast (also shown as the Great Tribulation Kingdom and Revelation Beast) and
(2) which the BIBLE PROMISES is information that would remain "closed-up" and "sealed"
from all Saints until the Last Saints [Dan 12:8-10] and (3) which JESUS PROMISES that the
Last Saints "shall see" [Mat 24:15] and (4) which GOD PROMISES these Last Saints would
PREACH to the world as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]
You can read all the details on Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation" here:
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-8
Jim
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Marc Perry
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I have no interest in reading your website and I pretty much gave up on this post after that.
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