What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

Jamdoc

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Yes, I agree that past sins only is forgiven for a believer. I don't buy into the whole “future sin is forgiven for the believer” type belief that is popular nowadays.
Then that means you think the moment a person who's saved commits a sin whether by commission, or omission (James 4:17) they're condemned?
What about John 5:24's future tense of SHALL not come into condemnation?
 
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chad kincham

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7. John 19:14 says the sixth hour is when Pilate mocks Jesus before a crowd. Yet, on the sixth hour, Scripture says darkness came upon the land after he was on the cross (Matthew 27:45). Many have tried to resolve this supposed contradiction in the Bible in many ways. I used to think the sixth hour in John 19:14 was in reference to flash forward in time.
However, I abandoned this idea

This explains the discrepancy in detail:

Albert Barnes commentary

And it was the third hour ... - In Joh 19:14 it is said, “And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour, etc. Much difficulty has been felt in reconciling these passages, and infidels have usually adduced them to prove that the evangelists have contradicted themselves. In reconciling them the following remarks may perhaps make the matter clear:

(1) The Jews divided both the night and the day into four equal parts of three hours each. See the notes at Mat 14:25. The first division of the day commenced at six o’clock in the morning, and ended at nine; the second commenced at nine and ended at twelve, etc. “The third” hour mentioned by Mark would therefore correspond with our nine o’clock; the “sixth” hour mentioned by John would correspond with our twelve, or noon.

(2) Mark professes to give the time accurately; John does not. He says “it was about the sixth hour,” without affirming that this was exactly the time.

(3) A mistake in “numbers” is easily made; and if it should he admitted that such an error had crept into the text here, it would be nothing more than has occurred in many ancient writings. It has been proved, moreover, that it was common not to write the “words” indicating numbers at “length,” but to use “letters.” The Greeks designated numbers by the letters of the alphabet, and this mode of computation is found in ancient manuscripts. For example, the Cambridge manuscript of the New Testament has in this very place in Mark, not the word “third” written at length, but the Greek letter gamma (γ), the usual notation for third. Now it is well known that it would be easy to mistake this for the Greek letter sigma (ς), the mark denoting “six.” An error of this kind in an early manuscript might be extensively propagated, and might have led to the present reading of the text. Such an error is actually known to exist in the “Chronicon” of Paschal, where Otho is said to have reigned ς, (six) months, whereas it is known that he reigned but three, and in this place, therefore, the γ, three, was mistaken for ς, six.

(4) There is some external authority for reading “third” in Joh 19:14. The Cambridge manuscript has this reading. Nonnus, who lived in the fifth century, says that this was the true reading (Wetstein). Peter of Alexandria, in a fragment concerning the Passover, as quoted by Usher, says, “It was the preparation of the Passover, and about the “third” hour, as,” he adds, “the most accurate copies of the Bible have it; and this was the handwriting of the evangelist (John), which is kept, by the grace of God, in his most holy church at Ephesus” (Mill). It is to be admitted, however, that no great reliance is to be placed on this account. That a mistake “might” have occurred in the early manuscripts is not improbable. No man can “prove” that it did “not” so occur, and so long as this cannot be proved, the passages should not be adduced as conclusive proof of contradiction.

After all, perhaps, without the supposition that there is any error in the text, the whole difficulty may be removed by the following statements:

(1) Calvary was “without” the walls of Jerusalem. It was a considerable distance from the place where Jesus was tried and condemned. Some time, more or less, would be occupied in going there, and in the preparatory measures for crucifying him.

(2) It is not necessary to understand “Mark” as saying that it was precisely nine o’clock, according to our expression. With the Jews it was six until seven; it was the third hour until the fourth commenced; it was the ninth until it was the tenth. They “included” in the “third” hour the whole time from the third to the fourth. The same mode they adopted in regard to their days. See the notes at Mat 12:40.

(3) It is not unduly pressing the matter to suppose that Mark spoke of the time when the process for crucifixion commenced - that is, when he was condemned - when they entered upon it - when they made the preparation. Between that and the time when he was taken “out” of Jerusalem to Mount Calvary, and when he was actually nailed to the tree, there is no improbability in supposing that there might have been an interval of more than an hour. Indeed, the presumption is that considerably more time than that would elapse.

(4) John does not profess, as has been remarked, to be strictly accurate. He says “it was about the sixth hour,” etc.

(5) Now suppose that John meant to indicate the time when he was “actually” suspended on the cross - that he spoke of the “crucifixion” denoting the “act of suspension,” as it struck “him” - and there is no difficulty. Any other two men - any witnesses - might give just such an account now. One man would speak of the time when the process for an execution commenced; another, perhaps, of the very “act” of the execution and would “both” speak of it in general terms, and say that a man was executed at such a time; and the circumstantial variation would “prove” that there was no collusion, no agreement to “impose” on a court - that they were honest witnesses. That is “proved” here.

(6) That this is the true account of the matter is clear from the evangelists themselves, and “especially from Mark.” The three first evangelists concur in stating that there was a remarkable “darkness” over the whole land from the “sixth” to the “ninth” hour, Mat 27:45; “Mar 15:33;” Luk 23:44. This fact - in which Mark concurs - would seem to indicate that “the actual crucifixion” continued only during that time - that he was, in fact, suspended at about the sixth hour, though the preparations for crucifying him had been going on (Mark) for two hours before. The fact that Mark Mar 15:33 mentions this darkness as commencing at the “sixth” and not at the “third” hour, is one of the circumstances undesignedly occurring that seems to signify that the crucifixion then had “actually” taken place, though the various arrangements for it Mar 15:25 had been going on from the “third” hour.

One thing is conclusively proved by this - that the evangelists did not “conspire together” to impose on the world. They are independent witnesses, and they were honest men; and the circumstance adverted to here is one that is allowed to be of great value in testimony in courts of justice - “circumstantial variation with essential agreement.”
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Time is a dimension, the fourth dimension, and has physical properties.

Since God crested the space/time continuum and all the dimensions, why would you think He couldn’t control time?

In fact, since Jesus is the only manifestation of God in human form, every time God in the form of a man appears in the Old Testament, it is Jesus, who is God, transcending time, and appearing on earth centuries before He incarnated as a man.

And God in the form of a man, is all over the Old Testament.

In Genesis 18, YHWH in the Hebrew, appears to Abraham as one of three men. Abraham washes Gods feet.

Then in Genesis 19, the text says that YHWH on earth, rained down fire and brimstone, from YHWH in heaven, further proving Jesus is the YHWH who appeared to Abraham.

Shalom.

This thread is not really about arguing the differences of our beliefs, but it is about sharing what you used to believe was true and now this is no longer the case.

But if you are interested in learning more as to why I believe the way I do on the topic of time with Scripture, check out this thread here.

God and Time: Does God exist in all points in time?
 
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chad kincham

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Reminds me of one on my list..

#1. I used to think that the New Covenant started with Christ's death - until I read Jer 31:31-34 and found it in the OT... and read Gal 1:6-9 where there is only ONE Gospel and then in Gal 3:8 "that gospel was preached to Abraham" - and then I learned about "Exegesis" where "it matters" what Jeremiah and his readers knew of the "Law of God written on the heart" in Jer 31. Since that points directly to the "Ten" written on stone at Sinai and singled-out as the only code of law inside the ark.

Only problem with that is the New Testament explicitly says the new covenant took effect at Jesus’ death:

Heb 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Heb 9:16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.

Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

Shalom
 
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Norbert L

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What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?
I found out that it's possible to be mistaken more than once on the same subject over the years. From believing that only the 7th day Sabbath was the correct day of worship whereby Sunday worshippers were deceived, to not believing in the Sabbath day at all then back again to my original belief and now as the Messianic forum describes it "MJs and MGs keep Torah for the love of G-d". Basically theological understanding is something that can be a process. Just because a person is mistaken once and adopted a new understanding, doesn't necessarily mean that new understanding is perfectly correct.
 
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RickReads

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I wouldn`t know where to begin. My understanding of the gospel is radically more advanced and in many ways different then it was years ago. Even today I find myself getting schooled once in awhile.

I`m very thankful that early on I accepted the Berean ideal which has left me open minded and willing to objectively consider views that differ from my own. It saved me from the blindness of indoctrination.

I take peace in knowing that my truth is actually pretty orthodox though I may not express it in coventional man made terms.
 
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Jamdoc

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Okay so my own past belief that I have gotten over and believe differently having gained greater knowledge...
I used to believe that if a child died before being saved, they went to hell.
It was something that caused me to be angry with God because it simply felt unjust that fetuses who were aborted, or stillbirths or miscarriages, or an infant that was killed at a very young age, goes to hell forever.
But I now believe that all young children are safely in the arms of Jesus if the worst should happen. I believe this because Jesus Himself said we had to become like a child, that is, innocent, to go to the kingdom of heaven, to be innocent and have faith. He also said to allow the children to come to Him, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew 19. David also had faith that He would one day see his son who died young in heaven. David took solace in that, and I think that we can also take solace as he did.

I never, and still don't fully believe in once saved always saved, but in my own experience, I believe there was a time I was not saved, having considered myself agnostic for a period of years. If I'd died then, I may have died in my sins, because my life took a turn for the worse in many ways. While Jesus Himself said that nobody can pluck you out of His hand, I don't believe that He ever meant that you could not walk away and turn your back on Him. As I mentioned earlier the prodigal son comes to mind, that God will allow you to use your free will to walk away from Him, but He will be waiting for you to come back. So, what I see it as, is that when you get saved and are adopted into the family of God, God will still view you as His son, even if you walk away, the relationship still exists, it is a potentially very estranged relationship and if you never come back to Him, it's like being disowned. So you can estrange yourself from God and be the bad apple of a family, but you can come back and say you're sorry for ever leaving. But I do really feel, if you remain estranged... you can still die in your sins. I don't think you have to be perfect to be saved, but I do think you have to maintain a relationship to your father to be saved. I think a backslidden Christian can be called back. I was.
 
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zoidar

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  • Iconclastic heresy. Both the early Churches and Synagogues were adorned in rich Iconography; in particular, the ancient in Dura Europa (sic) bears witness to this. It is in museum display today. It dates from circa the 3rd Century A.D. (200s AD).

Not that I have anything against icons, but are you sure there were icons this early? There were Christian images and symbols the first hundreds, but I have heard icons (with halo) were painted in the 6th or 7th century.
 
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Dave L

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Calvinism is the fatalist philosophy of determinism masquerading as doctrine, and cessationism is semi-apostate - you’ve been proof-texted into doctrinal error.

Shalom
It took a long time to recover but it was well worth the effort. You would need to do it yourself and experience the differences. But they are huge and for the better.
 
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Dave L

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Well, I do not want to disrupt this thread with any one argument. But if you are interested in why I believe (the way I do), check out the following.

Real World Example (or Parable) in Defense of Conditional Immortality:

Jesus many times used parables or real world examples to illustrate or parallel spiritual truth. Eternal Torment cannot be made into a real world example so as to defend fair justice. For example: If a family entered a country whereby their child had lied, or stolen some bread, etc. and the authorities caught them and decided to torture their child for the rest of his or her life in a very cruel way over such a crime, we would think that such a punishment would not fit the crime and or be fair. We would think it would be unfair justice if such a thing took place today in our real world. Now, how can God be any less fair and just? God sends rain on the righteous, and the unrighteous. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. Can we really say that “God is good” and yet He can also torture a wicked person for all eternity for a finite amount of crimes they committed in their life? Even our own justice system teaches us about fair justice and these principles can be found even in the Old Testament Law of Moses (Which of course is not a binding contract or covenant for the believer today, but certain laws can be good, useful, or beneficial for the believer today who is under the New Covenant, or New Testament).

To learn why Dualistic Conditional Immortality is biblical, check out this thread here:

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality
Answer the question "why did God create?" and you will understand eternal torment for sin.
 
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Andrewn

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Answer the question "why did God create?" and you will understand eternal torment for sin.
Christians are supposed to be loving people. How can a loving person enjoy being in heaven while his friends, who are nice agnostics or belong to a different religion, are tormented for eternity?

I have no intention of derailing the thread. This was just a quick comment.
 
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steppinrazor

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Belief is such a strong word. Its easy to change a thought or idea, but a BELIEF is much more difficult. Personally, I use to believe in all sorts of things I read, was told, or heard from people (including family). I have grown through the years to really not believe anything. I believe in God (the trinity) and look to Jesus as my savior (and best friend), but really I let all other things pass by me as ideas, thoughts, rules, or just notions of what other people want me to think or believe.
 
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Dave L

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Christians are supposed to be loving people. How can a loving person enjoy being in heaven while his friends, who are nice agnostics or belong to a different religion, are tormented for eternity?

I have no intention of derailing the thread. This was just a quick comment.
If you love and trust God, you will side with him that they belong in hell. You will know the truth.
 
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BobRyan

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Only problem with that is the New Testament explicitly says the new covenant took effect at Jesus’ death:

Heb 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Heb 9:16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.

Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

Shalom

The New Covenant is unchanged in NT from the way it was in the OT as we see in Heb 8:6-12 compared to Jer 31:31-34... no change.

Heb 9 does not say that the New Covenant did not "take effect" before the death of Christ only that the death of Christ that has occurred is the basis for it.

So then Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory fully forgiven in Matthew 17 before the cross under that Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant (the one gospel) that promises adoption, a new creation, the Law written on the heart, and forgiveness of sins. i.e. "the gospel" and Gal 1:6-9 says there is only one gospel.

By contrast as Gal 3 points out - the only thing the Old Covenant had was "obey and live".

The New Covenant is the "One Gospel" of both OT and NT and was ratified at the death of Christ - but that one Gospel has always been the only way of salvation.

=====================

Heb 10:4 makes it clear that no forgiveness at all is possible with merely the blood of bulls and goats. It had to be the blood of Christ both OT and NT "the lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world" because God "counts those things that are not as though they were" Romans 4

Heb 9
15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.

Heb 9:18 makes it clear that the cross is the blood that covered the saints in the Old Testament and this is how Moses and Elijah stand fully forgiven in Matt 17 as they stand with Christ in glory before the cross even happens.
 
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Monksailor

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I was blessed to have been saved as a result of Campus Crusade for Christ/Military Branch efforts. They make sure that you are not left out to dry after you are saved and end up starting out with a bunch of misconceptions and misunderstandings. We progressed through the "Nine Transferable Concepts" of Christianity which was a packet of 9 little booklets of 65 pages or so the size of an Upper Room booklet. They were Bible studies designed to get a new covert grounded in a God-Inspired understanding of who and what they had become and of what their obligations, freedoms, and "instructions" for a successful Christian experience were. The concepts have been compiled into a book entitled, "A Handbook of Concepts for Living-A practical, easy to follow guide to the exciting adventure of joyful Christian living." 359 pgs. by Bill Bright

As a result, I have had very few "rude awakenings" in my Christian experience. I wasn't saved by a particular denomination's efforts and inducted into its particular or exclusive "understandings" or practices and from the start learned that ANYTHING taught by ANYONE should be investigated and verified or disqualified with God's Inspired Word.

I am NOT saying that I have not learned much more depth and width and height. I am NOT saying that I have not failed time and time again to be like Christ.

The two main things which I have had to struggle with learning in my Christendom in addition to the ground work of CCC/MBr are:

  • The people in church are not in heaven, yet, including me. One MUST not think that just because it is under the auspices of the House of God that people will be trustworthy, discrete, honorable, non-political, not gossip or slander and the like. See 100 Bible verses about trust no man:
    What Does the Bible Say About Trust No Man?
  • What one person does to honor the Lord can be heresy to another believer who practices his belief in a different way, yet, the Lord may find both men's practices acceptable and honorable. See: Romans 14
 
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Bible Highlighter

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A lot of the moral laws taught in the old testament are still in the new, and they still apply. The ceremonial laws seem to have been fulfilled though.

I agree.

You said:
Acts basically says avoid fornication, don't eat strangled animals or blood, and loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself will take care of the rest.

I believe there is more of course, but this another topic entirely.

To learn more of what I believe are the BIG things we as Christians must accept, check out this thread here:

What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

You said:
For the most part. But Jesus did tell the apostles to buy swords to defend themselves. It seems that Jesus teaches that if someone is going to hit you in a way that's not really threatening you don't fight back but you are allowed to defend yourself if they're going to kill you.

This thread is not really about debating the differences of what we believe, but it is about sharing what you used to believe was true and now this is not the case.

If you are interested in learning more as to why I believe the Bible teaches Non-Resistance under the New Covenant, you can check out the verses and explanations on common objections (like the one you brought up) in this CF thread here:

Nonresistance as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

You said:
So... what then, aren't sins forgiven in Christ even in the new covenant?

I believe only past sins are forgiven, and that we have to confess and forsake sin in order to have forgiveness and or salvation. Others believe that they are saved solely by believing in the finished work of Christ and or something along those lines and they believe all their present sin and future sins are forgiven by this belief. If you disagree, this is not the place to debate it. Check out this thread here to learn more and or to discuss it.

The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

You said:
Some spiritual gifts people can have still, but things like curing disease through laying on hands or casting out demons or resurrecting people, as far as I know.. that was really only the apostles who were granted that. In Acts 19 some people try to throw out demons and the demons responded that they know Jesus and they know Paul, but they didn't know who these wannabe exorcists were so they got attacked by the possessed man instead. I definitely don't believe in the word of faith or other charismatic derived movements.

For clarification on Cessationism (and not to debate this topic here): Cessationism is not saying that all gifts have ceased. They are just saying the miraculous sign gifts have ceased. Cessationism is not saying that miracles cannot happen today, either. Cessationism is saying that only the miraculous gifts given to certain individuals has ceased. Granted, again, I do leave room for mystery that I may be wrong and some group of believers are operating by the gifts correctly in a remote jungle somewhere. But much of what I seen appears to not be biblical. To learn more, check out this thread here:

Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

And if you want to debate or discuss it, go here:

Convince me of Continuationism.

You said:
Eh.. I'm gonna stick with Eternal Conscious Torment. That's what Jesus taught and in the book of Revelation the false prophet and antichrist were still in hell 1000 years later after the millennium. Annihilationism would be compassionate.. it's just not what I saw in scripture, proof texts?

I make a really great biblical case for Dualistic Conditional Immortality here:

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality

You said:
I don't think it's impossible to be rich and be in service to Christ, it's just difficult. If they are rich but very charitable, then maybe. depends on what they use their money for. If they have a lot of wealth but don't LIVE like they're wealthy, and are charitable, I can see that. But if they're indulging themselves? Yeah probably not serving the Lord.

This would be a great thread topic to discuss sometime. I will have to create one on this topic to discuss this important issue.

Bible Highlighter said:
#7. John 19:14 says the sixth hour is when Pilate mocks Jesus before a crowd. Yet, on the sixth hour, Scripture says darkness came upon the land after he was on the cross (Matthew 27:45). Many have tried to resolve this supposed contradiction in the Bible in many ways. I used to think the sixth hour in John 19:14 was in reference to flash forward in time.
However, I abandoned this idea.

I now believe there two different clocks here. Christ’s clock (or hours); And the normal reckoning of hours within a calendar day.

1. Christ’s 1st hour. This the 1st hour of when Christ is betrayed into the hands of sinners
(Christ’s 1st hour: See Matthew 26:45). This is Christ’s hour because Christ’s says elsewhere, “My hour has not yet come.” (John 2:4).
2. Early the next morning, Jesus is judged by Pilate (a Roman) early in the morning.
3. Jesus is then whipped and mocked.
4. Christ’s 6th hour. This is after six hours have past from the previous night of the 1st hour of when Jesus was betrayed into the hands of sinners (Matthew 26:45): Pilate sets Jesus before a Jewish audience and says to them, “Behold your king!” (Christ’s 6th hour: See John 19:14).
5. Then at 9:00AM (3rd hour of the Day): Jesus is crucified.
6. Darkness within the sky comes upon the land at 12:00PM (6th hour of the Day).
7. Then at 3:00PM (9th hour of the Day) Jesus dies and He becomes our Passover Lamb, Christ is sacrificed for us (man).
You said:
Never noticed this before, thank you

Your welcome. It took much prayer and searching to find the right answer that spoke correctly between myself and God, and that aligned with His Word.

You said:
I'm unsure, there is an elect number of people who will be saved, and God knew from before the beginning of creation who would and who wouldn't be saved. There's also a lot of reference that time as we reckon it, is kind of meaningless to God, measurements of time can be all over the place the whole 1 day is as a thousand years kinda thing.

I make my biblical case for my view on God and time in this thread here:

God and Time: Does God exist in all points in time?

You said:
I believed pre trib until I actually read the bible, then I was post trib, now I'm pre wrath. There's just too many proof texts.

You can check out my two events view and my exhaustive End Times Chronology here (if you are interested):

Pre-Trib Only - My New End Times Chronology

You said:
It's dicey, I know that it's taught they went out from us because they were not of us, but from my own experience, I at one point considered myself having walked out of the faith, and came back to it because of chastisement. It was one wicked backslide for years that is to be sure, but I'm up in the air as to whether I truly didn't believe or if I was just so angry that I didn't want to believe but still found myself talking to God a lot. The fact that I was chastised for disobedience, just over and over and over again, is one of the reasons I believe I was saved when I was 12, and not just a thing of well I faked it until I was in my 20's and then didn't REALLY get saved until I was 38. Misfortune followed me like a bloodhound all through my 20's, it seemed like everything I did I was destined to fail. It finally got to a point in my late 30's that I realized that it'd been God this whole time, and I'd been being a very disobedient son.
I believe it's a little bit like the prodigal son, the Father lets you go ahead and distance yourself from Him, and if they never come back.. well maybe they're lost, but, the Father is waiting for the son who's gone astray to come back and ready to welcome them again.
I definitely see it as possible to walk away from the faith though, I do think that, God will bring them back eventually.

It's definitely possible to go prodigal and come back. No doubt about it. But was one saved while they were prodigal? Is one saved while they are abiding in sin? This I believe is the ultimate conclusion in Once Saved Always Saved and related beliefs that allows for a believer to think they can commit the sins that the Bible condemns and they do need to confess and forsake those sins, and yet they are still magically saved by having a belief alone on Jesus somehow. In either case, this again is another topic of discussion for another thread.

Check out this thread here if you want to continue to discuss it more.

Prove your case biblically that believers can willfully sin and still be saved while doing so.

You said:
Even though a tithe is a %portion, some people can't afford to give that much, while others it doesn't impact them so much.

I believe this is more of an issue of dealing with what covenant we are under.
Check out this thread to see which covenant we should follow.

The Law of Moses is no more, but that does not mean the New Covenant is without many commands.

A great website to learn more between the difference between Old Covenant tithing (involving the Israelites) vs. New Covenant giving (involving the church) can be found here:

No More Tithing | No More Tithing

You said:
Depends on the church but ideally it's a family.

To see where I am coming from on this topic, check out these two threads here by LoveofTruth:

God's Order in the Church vs Man's Order

The Pastor King (New)
 
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Two problems with annihilationism doctrine: if there’s no everlasting torment as scripture says, there’s no eternal life for the redeemed, because everlasting and eternal are the same word in the Greek.

And I’d like you to explain how a person that’s been destroyed and ceased to exist, can be said to “have no rest day or night” in the lake of fire, indicating an ongoing
and continuing torment.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Shalom.

This thread is primarily about sharing a theological belief that you used to believe was true and now you don't believe that such a thing is true anymore. If you are interested on my reasons why I believe in Dualistic Conditional Immortality and answers to common objections (like the ones you mentioned here), check out this thread here:

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality
 
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BobRyan

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#10. I believed in Once Saved Always Saved very briefly (Note: I think it was like 1 or 2 hours), until I researched the Scriptures later that night and learned that it was false.

Yeah that's a good point.
Matt 18 -- "forgiveness revoked"
Eze 18 - "Forgiveness revoked"
Rom 11 - "you stand only by your faith... you should fear..."
John 15 - those branches "in me" removed and cast into the fire if they do not bear fruit
 
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BobRyan

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#9. At one point in time, I briefly believed for a few days in the Pre-Wrath model. Today, I hold to the view that there is a potential Pre-Trib Rapture, and another event that is the gathering up of the saints by angels in the Middle of the Tribulation (after the abomination of desolations takes place).

I have always believed that the rapture happens at the second coming 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matthew 24, and that Jesus takes the saints to heaven at that point to fulfill the John 14:1-4 promise. So that is post-trib and pre-mill.
 
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