What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

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God would not be good if he didn't punish sin forever. Why punish Christ, if you walk anyway?

Well, I do not want to disrupt this thread with any one argument. But if you are interested in why I believe (the way I do), check out the following.

Real World Example (or Parable) in Defense of Conditional Immortality:

Jesus many times used parables or real world examples to illustrate or parallel spiritual truth. Eternal Torment cannot be made into a real world example so as to defend fair justice. For example: If a family entered a country whereby their child had lied, or stolen some bread, etc. and the authorities caught them and decided to torture their child for the rest of his or her life in a very cruel way over such a crime, we would think that such a punishment would not fit the crime and or be fair. We would think it would be unfair justice if such a thing took place today in our real world. Now, how can God be any less fair and just? God sends rain on the righteous, and the unrighteous. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. Can we really say that “God is good” and yet He can also torture a wicked person for all eternity for a finite amount of crimes they committed in their life? Even our own justice system teaches us about fair justice and these principles can be found even in the Old Testament Law of Moses (Which of course is not a binding contract or covenant for the believer today, but certain laws can be good, useful, or beneficial for the believer today who is under the New Covenant, or New Testament).

To learn why Dualistic Conditional Immortality is biblical, check out this thread here:

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality
 
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Tree of Life

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1. That I am freely able to choose God without him first choosing me.
2. That it's wrong for the church to own property or pay ministers.
3. That God does not send painful things into my life.
4. That God is not in control over the sinful actions of people.
5. That Jesus died to save every individual.

The Bible corrected me on all of these errors.
 
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BobRyan

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God would not be good if he didn't punish sin forever. Why punish Christ, if you walk anyway?

Where did he say "you walk"??

In the days of the old west the bad guy would get caught and then hanged. Nobody was going around saying "well I guess that guy walked".

How much worse for the bad guy if instead of hanging he got the Rev 20 lake of fire.

And how much worse even than that - if that was a special sort of lake of fire where x-amount of torment was delivered for each y-amount of sin committed.

But as we see in Rev 20 the saints are right there for the whole thing -

Rev 20
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone,

Rev 14
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
 
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PaulCyp1

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I never ran into such a problem, because Jesus Christ clearly and repeatedly demonstrated that He was God, by constantly doing things only God could do. He, God, founded one Church, said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". I was raised in that one Church, and was therefore never taught anything untrue.
 
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Anthony2019

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I used to have very concrete views on theological, social and ethical issues. I used to think that what I believed was always correct and that others were always wrong.

These days, I have become a better listener to others. I have accepted the fact that I am not always right in everything, and even if I don't agree with every person I meet, there is always something I can learn from them.

Years ago, I would shy away from people that made me feel theologically challenged. These days I believe that the Lord is challenging me to offer the hand of friendship to all I meet: to show care, humility, and welcome to others in the same way Jesus did. It is never easy to do, but I believe that is what He expects from me.

I used to live in a religious "bubble", only listening to Christian music, reading Christian books, and spending nearly all of my time with Christian friends. Until I learned to realise and appreciate that all people are created in the image of God and have unique personalities, talents and abilities.
 
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dqhall

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What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

Here is my list.

#1. I used to believe we had to follow the Old Testament laws in addition to the New Testament laws. Until one day I discovered verses that the New Covenant began with Christ's death and it ended the Old Covenant. In other words, I believe that believers today are to primarily follow the New Testament commands because we are New Covenant believers.

#2. I used to think that Christians could go to war and or they can respond with violence when attacked. But I have come to later learn that the Scriptures teach Non-Resistance (while believers live out their faith).

#3. I used to believe Romans 3:25 was a verse that proves past sins are forgiven for a believer. But this verse is actually talking about those who sinned while under the Old Covenant.

#4. I used to believe that believers can use the same miraculous gifts that the early church had. Today, I lean more towards Cessationism (even though I leave a little bit of room for mystery that I could be wrong).

#5. I used to believe in Eternal Conscious Torment. I believe I was mistaken on this belief after learning of the truth on Dualistic Conditional Immortality. This is the view that hell is a very real place of punishment, but the wicked will be destroyed (erased from existence) in the Lake of Fire after the Judgment and after they have been punished for a set amount of time for their sins. Note: At one point in time, I was on the fence on these two beliefs, until Scripture convinced me otherwise.

#6. I used to think believers could be rich by how we generally understand that word. Meaning, I thought we could be millionaires and still be in service to Christ. But I have learned that this is not so. 1 Timothy 6 is a big refutation of that idea.

#7. John 19:14 says the sixth hour is when Pilate mocks Jesus before a crowd. Yet, on the sixth hour, Scripture says darkness came upon the land after he was on the cross (Matthew 27:45). Many have tried to resolve this supposed contradiction in the Bible in many ways. I used to think the sixth hour in John 19:14 was in reference to flash forward in time.
However, I abandoned this idea.

I now believe there two different clocks here. Christ’s clock (or hours); And the normal reckoning of hours within a calendar day.

1. Christ’s 1st hour. This the 1st hour of when Christ is betrayed into the hands of sinners
(Christ’s 1st hour: See Matthew 26:45). This is Christ’s hour because Christ’s says elsewhere, “My hour has not yet come.” (John 2:4).
2. Early the next morning, Jesus is judged by Pilate (a Roman) early in the morning.
3. Jesus is then whipped and mocked.
4. Christ’s 6th hour. This is after six hours have past from the previous night of the 1st hour of when Jesus was betrayed into the hands of sinners (Matthew 26:45): Pilate sets Jesus before a Jewish audience and says to them, “Behold your king!” (Christ’s 6th hour: See John 19:14).
5. Then at 9:00AM (3rd hour of the Day): Jesus is crucified.
6. Darkness within the sky comes upon the land at 12:00PM (6th hour of the Day).
7. Then at 3:00PM (9th hour of the Day) Jesus dies and He becomes our Passover Lamb, Christ is sacrificed for us (man).​

#8. I used to think time exists like it does in time travel movies, books, comics, etc.; Meaning, I used to believe God existed in all points in time (past, present, and future). However, I have abandoned this idea based on what Scripture says. I believe God simply exists in the present moment of time like all of us do (However, God can obviously see what is going to happen before it happens, though).

#9. At one point in time, I briefly believed for a few days in the Pre-Wrath model. Today, I hold to the view that there is a potential Pre-Trib Rapture, and another event that is the gathering up of the saints by angels in the Middle of the Tribulation (after the abomination of desolations takes place).

#10. I believed in Once Saved Always Saved very briefly (Note: I think it was like 1 or 2 hours), until I researched the Scriptures later that night and learned that it was false.

#11. I used to believe that Christians had to tithe, until I learned that tithing was Old Covenant and that Paul tells us in Corinthians to give what God has purposed in our heart to give.

#12. I used to think church was going to a big building to worship God amongst a bunch of strangers, or people you could not connect with, but I have come to discover that the church are a people, and the early church gathered in each other's homes, and they were close friends and they knew each other.
I used to think my poverty gave me a chance to be less wasteful than the rich. I thought the rich were sinful in buying yachts, private jets and multiple homes that were empty much of the time.

In the parable of the prodigal son the son got his inheritance early and went into a foreign land. He went to taverns, ate drank and entertained prostitutes. He became destitute after he squandered his wealth. There was an economic depression and the only job he could find was feeding pigs. The pigs were eating better than him. He dared not steal their food. He remembered his father paid better wages. He went home and asked his father for a job. He was not considered more righteous than his brother who did not squander his inheritance, but was glad to be able to earn enough to buy food.

It is difficult for one to learn to invest and spend wisely. It is a crime to defraud people for money.
 
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Der Alte

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...Eternal Torment cannot be made into a real world example so as to defend fair justice. ....
Can you show us lesser mortals where the Bible states or implies that nothing is valid unless we can make a real world example?
In fact I think God says exactly the opposite.

Isaiah 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 64:4
4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
1 Corinthians 2:9
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.



 
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Bible Highlighter

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Can you show us lesser mortals where the Bible states or implies that nothing is valid unless we can make a real world example?
In fact I think God says exactly the opposite.

Isaiah 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 64:4
4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
1 Corinthians 2:9
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.



Okay. Your not getting the vibe or point of this thread, my friend. It's not a point to argue a debate on a specific topic. The thread is about you sharing something that you once thought was true but you have come later to believe it is untrue.
 
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chad kincham

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#3. I used to believe Romans 3:25 was a verse that proves past sins are forgiven for a believer. But this verse is actually talking about those who sinned while under the Old Covenant.

If you read it in context in modern English, I think you’ll change your mind again:

Rom 3:22 But now God's way of putting people right with himself has been revealed. It has nothing to do with law, even though the Law of Moses and the prophets gave their witness to it.

Rom 3:22 God puts people right through their faith in Jesus Christ. God does this to all who believe in Christ, because there is no difference at all:

Rom 3:23 everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence.

Rom 3:24 But by the free gift of God's grace all are put right with him through Christ Jesus, who sets them free.

Rom 3:25 (25-26) God offered him, so that by his blood he should become the means by which people's sins are forgiven through their faith in him. God did this in order to demonstrate that he is righteous. In the past he was patient and overlooked people's sins; but in the present time he deals with their sins, in order to demonstrate his righteousness. In this way God shows that he himself is righteous and that he puts right everyone who believes in Jesus.

Rom 3:27 What, then, can we boast about? Nothing! And what is the reason for this? Is it that we obey the Law? No, but that we believe.

Rom 3:28 For we conclude that a person is put right with God only through faith, and not by doing what the Law commands.
 
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zoidar

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1. I thought every church basically taught the same things, the Lutheran view, as a newborn Christian.

What I have learned over the years is that there are much more into understanding the Bible than I ever could imagine: Different translations, Greek/Hebrew skills, Early Church teachings, knowing about the culture of the time, the thinking of first century Jews, knowing about the historical situation as each text were written.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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I formerly espoused the following errors and have since repented unto God for them:

  • Sola Scriptura (It rejects the 'traditions which St Paul in II Thessalonians bids us to hold fast unto).
  • Iconclastic heresy. Both the early Churches and Synagogues were adorned in rich Iconography; in particular, the ancient in Dura Europa (sic) bears witness to this. It is in museum display today. It dates from circa the 3rd Century A.D. (200s AD).
  • That the Church is a democracy.
  • The invented doctrine of the 'Rapture'; invented by a Scottish Presbyterian Minister in the 1800s; prior to, it was never believed nor espoused by any right-believing Christian.
  • Disbelief in the Christ-given and God-engraced Holy Mysteries (a.k.a 'Holy Sacraments'); particularly in Confession and Holy Unction (or 'Anointing of the Sick' as it is at times termed).
  • Rejection of the Collective Consensus or Interpretation of Holy Writ in favour of my own person judgment of Scripture as to how it ought to be viewed or how the Church had always interpreted it. God shewed me that such 'private judgment' or 'Sola Scriptura' was gravely and severely erroneous.
  • The list goes onward . . .
 
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Der Alte

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Okay. Your not getting the vibe or point of this thread, my friend. It's not a point to argue a debate on a specific topic. The thread is about you sharing something that you once thought was true but you have come later to believe it is untrue.
If my response was off topic so was your post I was responding to. i.e. this post, "Real World Example (or Parable) in Defense of Conditional Immortality:"
Don't commit a foul, then cry foul when someone responds.
Back on topic, unlike many others I did not "grow up" in a particular denomination. I attended Sunday School as a child. The first time was when FDR was president. I was familiar with all the "hero" stories; Daniel, Joseph, Samson etc. and not much else. But I did not become a Christian until my mid 20s when LBJ was president. I did not have anything to unlearn. I questioned almost everything from day one.
I have the major Hebrew and Greek lexicons and grammars. And earlier editions of BDAG and BDB are available online.
I can read the scripture in more than one language. I have yet to be conclusively shown that anything I believe is in error.
 
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Wings like Eagles

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I had a very distorted view of Gods Love for us/me. My parents were angry overbearing people and I thought that was love. Only after having children, lots of study and some very loving mentors and friends did I come to, in a small way begin to understand God love.

I used to believe all Churches were the same .... boy that was an eye opener.
 
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chad kincham

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#8. I used to think time exists like it does in time travel movies, books, comics, etc.; Meaning, I used to believe God existed in all points in time (past, present, and future). However, I have abandoned this idea based on what Scripture says. I believe God simply exists in the present moment of time like all of us do (However, God can obviously see what is going to happen before it happens, though).

Time is a dimension, the fourth dimension, and has physical properties.

Since God crested the space/time continuum and all the dimensions, why would you think He couldn’t control time?

In fact, since Jesus is the only manifestation of God in human form, every time God in the form of a man appears in the Old Testament, it is Jesus, who is God, transcending time, and appearing on earth centuries before He incarnated as a man.

And God in the form of a man, is all over the Old Testament.

In Genesis 18, YHWH in the Hebrew, appears to Abraham as one of three men. Abraham washes Gods feet.

Then in Genesis 19, the text says that YHWH on earth, rained down fire and brimstone, from YHWH in heaven, further proving Jesus is the YHWH who appeared to Abraham.

Shalom.
 
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chad kincham

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I was a Teenage Arminian Dispensationalist Charismatic (Think "I was a teenage werewolf", the 50s horror flick) and you'll get the picture. It took years of study to recognize the errors. And to become free from all of this. Today at 71 years old, I'm Calvinistic in sin and grace. Amillennial in Eschatology. Cessationist in Charismatic theory, and Baptist in church practice. Also, I stand with the Ecumenical Creeds.

Calvinism is the fatalist philosophy of determinism masquerading as doctrine, and cessationism is semi-apostate - you’ve been proof-texted into doctrinal error.

Shalom
 
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Jamdoc

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What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

Here is my list.

#1. I used to believe we had to follow the Old Testament laws in addition to the New Testament laws. Until one day I discovered verses that the New Covenant began with Christ's death and it ended the Old Covenant. In other words, I believe that believers today are to primarily follow the New Testament commands because we are New Covenant believers.
A lot of the moral laws taught in the old testament are still in the new, and they still apply. The ceremonial laws seem to have been fulfilled though. Acts basically says avoid fornication, don't eat strangled animals or blood, and loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself will take care of the rest.

#2. I used to think that Christians could go to war and or they can respond with violence when attacked. But I have come to later learn that the Scriptures teach Non-Resistance (while believers live out their faith).
For the most part. But Jesus did tell the apostles to buy swords to defend themselves. It seems that Jesus teaches that if someone is going to hit you in a way that's not really threatening you don't fight back but you are allowed to defend yourself if they're going to kill you.

#3. I used to believe Romans 3:25 was a verse that proves past sins are forgiven for a believer. But this verse is actually talking about those who sinned while under the Old Covenant.
So... what then, aren't sins forgiven in Christ even in the new covenant?

#4. I used to believe that believers can use the same miraculous gifts that the early church had. Today, I lean more towards Cessationism (even though I leave a little bit of room for mystery that I could be wrong).
Some spiritual gifts people can have still, but things like curing disease through laying on hands or casting out demons or resurrecting people, as far as I know.. that was really only the apostles who were granted that. In Acts 19 some people try to throw out demons and the demons responded that they know Jesus and they know Paul, but they didn't know who these wannabe exorcists were so they got attacked by the possessed man instead. I definitely don't believe in the word of faith or other charismatic derived movements.

#5. I used to believe in Eternal Conscious Torment. I believe I was mistaken on this belief after learning of the truth on Dualistic Conditional Immortality. This is the view that hell is a very real place of punishment, but the wicked will be destroyed (erased from existence) in the Lake of Fire after the Judgment and after they have been punished for a set amount of time for their sins. Note: At one point in time, I was on the fence on these two beliefs, until Scripture convinced me otherwise.
Eh.. I'm gonna stick with Eternal Conscious Torment. That's what Jesus taught and in the book of Revelation the false prophet and antichrist were still in hell 1000 years later after the millennium. Annihilationism would be compassionate.. it's just not what I saw in scripture, proof texts?

#6. I used to think believers could be rich by how we generally understand that word. Meaning, I thought we could be millionaires and still be in service to Christ. But I have learned that this is not so. 1 Timothy 6 is a big refutation of that idea.
I don't think it's impossible to be rich and be in service to Christ, it's just difficult. If they are rich but very charitable, then maybe. depends on what they use their money for. If they have a lot of wealth but don't LIVE like they're wealthy, and are charitable, I can see that. But if they're indulging themselves? Yeah probably not serving the Lord.

#7. John 19:14 says the sixth hour is when Pilate mocks Jesus before a crowd. Yet, on the sixth hour, Scripture says darkness came upon the land after he was on the cross (Matthew 27:45). Many have tried to resolve this supposed contradiction in the Bible in many ways. I used to think the sixth hour in John 19:14 was in reference to flash forward in time.
However, I abandoned this idea.

I now believe there two different clocks here. Christ’s clock (or hours); And the normal reckoning of hours within a calendar day.

1. Christ’s 1st hour. This the 1st hour of when Christ is betrayed into the hands of sinners
(Christ’s 1st hour: See Matthew 26:45). This is Christ’s hour because Christ’s says elsewhere, “My hour has not yet come.” (John 2:4).
2. Early the next morning, Jesus is judged by Pilate (a Roman) early in the morning.
3. Jesus is then whipped and mocked.
4. Christ’s 6th hour. This is after six hours have past from the previous night of the 1st hour of when Jesus was betrayed into the hands of sinners (Matthew 26:45): Pilate sets Jesus before a Jewish audience and says to them, “Behold your king!” (Christ’s 6th hour: See John 19:14).
5. Then at 9:00AM (3rd hour of the Day): Jesus is crucified.
6. Darkness within the sky comes upon the land at 12:00PM (6th hour of the Day).
7. Then at 3:00PM (9th hour of the Day) Jesus dies and He becomes our Passover Lamb, Christ is sacrificed for us (man).​
Never noticed this before, thank you​

#8. I used to think time exists like it does in time travel movies, books, comics, etc.; Meaning, I used to believe God existed in all points in time (past, present, and future). However, I have abandoned this idea based on what Scripture says. I believe God simply exists in the present moment of time like all of us do (However, God can obviously see what is going to happen before it happens, though).
I'm unsure, there is an elect number of people who will be saved, and God knew from before the beginning of creation who would and who wouldn't be saved. There's also a lot of reference that time as we reckon it, is kind of meaningless to God, measurements of time can be all over the place the whole 1 day is as a thousand years kinda thing.

#9. At one point in time, I briefly believed for a few days in the Pre-Wrath model. Today, I hold to the view that there is a potential Pre-Trib Rapture, and another event that is the gathering up of the saints by angels in the Middle of the Tribulation (after the abomination of desolations takes place).
I believed pre trib until I actually read the bible, then I was post trib, now I'm pre wrath. There's just too many proof texts.

#10. I believed in Once Saved Always Saved very briefly (Note: I think it was like 1 or 2 hours), until I researched the Scriptures later that night and learned that it was false.
It's dicey, I know that it's taught they went out from us because they were not of us, but from my own experience, I at one point considered myself having walked out of the faith, and came back to it because of chastisement. It was one wicked backslide for years that is to be sure, but I'm up in the air as to whether I truly didn't believe or if I was just so angry that I didn't want to believe but still found myself talking to God a lot. The fact that I was chastised for disobedience, just over and over and over again, is one of the reasons I believe I was saved when I was 12, and not just a thing of well I faked it until I was in my 20's and then didn't REALLY get saved until I was 38. Misfortune followed me like a bloodhound all through my 20's, it seemed like everything I did I was destined to fail. It finally got to a point in my late 30's that I realized that it'd been God this whole time, and I'd been being a very disobedient son.
I believe it's a little bit like the prodigal son, the Father lets you go ahead and distance yourself from Him, and if they never come back.. well maybe they're lost, but, the Father is waiting for the son who's gone astray to come back and ready to welcome them again.
I definitely see it as possible to walk away from the faith though, I do think that, God will bring them back eventually.

#11. I used to believe that Christians had to tithe, until I learned that tithing was Old Covenant and that Paul tells us in Corinthians to give what God has purposed in our heart to give.
Even though a tithe is a %portion, some people can't afford to give that much, while others it doesn't impact them so much.

#12. I used to think church was going to a big building to worship God amongst a bunch of strangers, or people you could not connect with, but I have come to discover that the church are a people, and the early church gathered in each other's homes, and they were close friends and they knew each other.

Depends on the church but ideally it's a family.
 
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chad kincham

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If my response was off topic so was your post I was responding to. i.e. this post, "Real World Example (or Parable) in Defense of Conditional Immortality:"
Don't commit a foul, then cry foul when someone responds.
Back on topic, unlike many others I did not "grow up" in a particular denomination. I attended Sunday School as a child. The first time was when FDR was president. I was familiar with all the "hero" stories; Daniel, Joseph, Samson etc. and not much else. But I did not become a Christian until my mid 20s when LBJ was president. I did not have anything to unlearn. I questioned almost everything from day one.
I have the major Hebrew and Greek lexicons and grammars. And earlier editions of BDAG and BDB are available online.
I can read the scripture in more than one language. I have yet to be conclusively shown that anything I believe is in error.
I am apalled that I used to believe in Eternal Torment. I think sometimes we really do not take the time to stop and think what we believe always.

Two problems with annihilationism doctrine: if there’s no everlasting torment as scripture says, there’s no eternal life for the redeemed, because everlasting and eternal are the same word in the Greek.

And I’d like you to explain how a person that’s been destroyed and ceased to exist, can be said to “have no rest day or night” in the lake of fire, indicating an ongoing
and continuing torment.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Shalom.
 
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