(1) Those who do a word study will discover that there are MANY Scriptures that teach people are saved through election... in fact NO MAN in the history of the world was saved but NOT elected.
Actually, I have done that. And I studied the Greek words (noun, verb, and adjective) and NONE of them were used for salvation. None.
I do agree that all saved people have been elected. Eph 1:4 makes that clear. But it isn't to salvation, but rather, to service.
(2) Effectively, men ARE SAVED when they are "elected" because
God cannot FAIL to do what He has purposed.
Other than biases, or opinions, do you have any verses that actually say this?
So, if God has
"chosen" someone to be His "elect" then that person was
(effectively) saved before the foundation of the world.
More opinion. Since "chosen" and "elect" are synonymous, all you said here was:
"So, if God has chosen someone to be His chosen". Or, "So if God has elected someone to be His elect".
That doesn't move the ball one inch.
To argue otherwise is to argue that God can FAIL.
No, but you fail to understand what the Bible says about election.
(3) Those who can discern Scripture understand the word "chosen"
often represents the same thing as "elected" and there are MANY
verses that teach people are "chosen/elected"" to be saved...
This is the second time you've stated this in your post. Now, produce the goods. Verses that SAY that salvation is by election.
Again, NO MAN that is saved was NOT chosen and elected.
That's true but doesn't support your claim.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
One of the most vague verses in the Bible. Doesn't say or indicate for what people are chosen. You have to apply your opinion to come up with salvation.
Mar_13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days,
no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake,
whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Adjectives DON'T define or explain what being elected is for.
Eph_1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
The "us" in v.4 is the SAME "us" in v.19, in which the "us" IS defined: "us who believe".
So, v.4 proves that election is about those who ARE believers, already saved. This alone proves that election is NOT for salvation.
Of course, understanding the Gospel means we know what is in
the Bible and we can DISCERN the MEANING of Scriptures.
We know the Bible says Christ came to save "His Sheep" and
we know those Christ came to save are the "elect".
You have clearly demonstrated that you have NO discernment of the meaning of verses.
Therefore we do not need to have a verse that specifically says:
The "elect" are also "His Sheep" and also the "chosen" because that
is the clear IMPLICATION of what many Scriptures clearly teach and
to not be able to DISCERN that Truth - does not negate that Truth
What you DO need is a verse that directly teaches that election is for salvation. And to this point, you have NOT provided any verses; only your opinion.
While I am not a "Calvinist", as one of His elect, I can show you
WHERE Scripture teaches "election" is to salvation... in fact,
I have ALREADY shown that to you in #1-#3 (above).
Since NO MAN ever saved was NOT "elected".
No matter how many times you make this statement, you haven't proven that election is for salvation. And now you've said 3 times that election is to salvation. And all without ANY verses.
This is not hard to understand.
It isn't, I agree. And I've done the "deep dig" and found that ALL examples of those described as being "elect" are for service. And NONE were for salvation.
Every Scripture that teaches the saved are the elect and
the elect are saved.
Right. But this doesn't prove that election is to salvation. It only shows that all saved people are elected. And from Eph 1:4, they are chosen/elected for service.
I am sorry you are not able to DISCERN EVERY saved man throughout history was "elect" and "chosen" and part of "His sheep". They are all "one in the same thing".
This ad hominem is just laughable. If you had bothered studying the Bible, you would have already known what election is for.
I have explained to you before, you should not assume that
Biblical Truth is LIMITED to what you are able to understand.
you can keep your pitiful ad hominem to yourself. You have the limited discernment since you CAN'T quote ANY verse that SAYS that election is to salvation.
In other words, the fact that you cannot discern some Truths
does not NEGATE those Truths.
lol. The fact that you cannot quote ANY verse about election being to salvation PROVES that your claims are empty.
You asked for SCRIPTURE proving we are "elected" to "salvation" (and not just service... which is theory that you were teaching)
I gave you Ephesians 1:4-5
And I easily REFUTED your opinion by showing exactly who the "us" is in v.4, being the same "us" as in 1:19, which is "us who believe".
Therefore, v.4 teaches that God has chosen believers to be holy and blameless. That is election to service, not salvation. Those with discernment will easily see this.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption
of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
I suppose by bolding and underlining "in him" you think the verse says that God chose US to be in him, huh. Well, it clearly doesn't say or mean that.
The purpose of election is found toward the end of the verse: "that we should be holy and blameless". That's what election is for.
(1) You asked for Scripture shown we are "elected" to salvation.
And you CAN'T do that.
(2) Eph 2 says we are "chosen" (in Him) to be His "children"
Where does any verse say we are chosen TO BE His children". You're just dreaming now.
(3) You then ADMIT that "believers" are already saved.
Of course I admit that. Why would you think otherwise?
But you keep missing the point. If election was to salvation, then you've got to admit that Eph 1:4 doesn't say chosen to salvation. In fact, it says, and quite clearly, that God has chosen US (believers)...to be holy and blameless.
The FACT that the verse says that God has chosen believers PROVES that election isn't to salvation. Since believers are already saved.
Those with discernment will easily see my point here.
Apparently you cannot comprehend the "us" who are "believers"
were FIRST (before the foundation of the world) "chosen" and "elected" to be "His sheep" and "His children"... to be saved.
Wow. Now you're just heaping on words that DON'T occur in the text. There's nothing about sheep or children. Why don't you just stick with the text?
All these non-existent words that you want to force into the text only demonstrate that you have no discernment of Scripture.
However, the fact that you cannot comprehend ALL BELIEVERS
were FIRST "chosen" and "elected" to be "His sheep" and
His "children" does not NEGATE any of those Bible Truths.
It only shows your inability to comprehend those Truths.
lol. v.4 says that God has chosen believers to be holy and blameless. Nothing about sheep or children.
I will make this simple for you:
Show me ONE EXAMPLE in the Bible where (saved) BELIEVERS
were not FIRST (before the foundation of the world) "elected"
and "chosen" to be "His sheep" and "His children".
Here's the problem. There are NO VERSES anywhere in Scripture that says that believers were chosen to be His sheep and His children. Nor can you.
If you cannot find such an example in Scripture then you are
teaching NONSENSE when you say "election" is NOT to salvation.
It really is as simple as that.
No, not hardly. The problem lies with your inability to quote even one verse that says election is to salvation.
Your claims are empty and meaningless without any verses to back up your claims.
Actually, your claims aren't really empty. They are FULL of presumption, assumption, and bias.
Since I have done the "deep dig" into election, I'm going to prove that election cannot be to salvation. I'm going to share all the examples in the Bible of those who were described as being elected. This should end the discussion.
Examples of Election
1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."
2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
3. Election of Angels:
1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4
a just as He chose us (believers) in Him…
5. Other elections:
Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Apostles: John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you. Also, John 6:70,71
Now, to summarize for you:
1. Jesus Christ is the Elect One. Obviously a Servant.
2. Nation of Israel were the chosen nation. Obviously in service to God.
3. There are elect angels. Obviously in service to God. Heb 1:14.
4. All believers are chosen to be holy and blameless. This is service.
5. Paul was chosen to bear Jesus' name before the Gentiles. Obviously service.
6. The 12 disciples were chosen, included the UNSAVED Judas, chosen to be the betrayer.
Now, are you going to argue that ANY of these examples were chosen for salvation?
1 Cor 1:27,28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
If you don't see service in these verses, you're just not looking.
