Free Will and Predestination - dating

Pavel Mosko · Oct 19, 2020

sampa said:
How does predestination factor in when dating people? And how does free will factor into dating? I'm sure some of the answers are obvious but I just thought it was a strange thing to bring up when I was talking about what I've learned.

I think your more likely to screw yourself up with the notions of predestination and soul mates. One Coptic priest I know that does lots of self help and advise type sermons etc. has actually preached on that sort of thing. Here is one of his videos on the topic.

I'm not saying it is impossible. I'm starting to begin to appreciate the notion of Divine Providence acting in my life etc. but this is kind of tricky. This is something you can sometimes see if you study a situation and look backward... (Sometimes God prepares things for you before you need them etc.).

But anyway at the age of 53 I'm just starting to get a handle of this in some areas in life. Often in life, especially in my younger years, you are kind of lost in a fog, even as a believer, when it comes to this sort of thing. And I think there are much better ways to frame this especially when it comes to the nature of the Bible and Christian ethics, as well as terms of practicality, who you are attracted to and compatible with etc.

Sketcher · Oct 19, 2020

If it's all predestination, it doesn't matter what you choose, what God wants for you will happen. (This doesn't mean that you'll be getting a good spouse out of the deal since God might not want that for you, like with Hosea and Jeremiah.)

If it's free will, then your choices matter.

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
I think your more likely to screw yourself up with the notions of predestination and soul mates. One Coptic priest I know that does lots of self help and advise type sermons etc. has actually preached on that sort of thing. Here is one of his videos on the topic.

I'm not saying it is impossible. I'm starting to begin to appreciate the notion of Divine Providence acting in my life etc. but this is kind of tricky. This is something you can sometimes see if you study a situation and look backward... (Sometimes God prepares things for you before you need them etc.).

But anyway at the age of 53 I'm just starting to get a handle of this in some areas in life. Often in life, especially in my younger years, you are kind of lost in a fog, even as a believer, when it comes to this sort of thing. And I think there are much better ways to frame this especially when it comes to the nature of the Bible and Christian ethics, as well as terms of practicality, who you are attracted to and compatible with etc.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think you are right that there is probably a better way to frame this. That's probably why I question why I thought the topic about Free Will being brought in as a topic to the discussion by the friend seemed kind of odd and out of place. But I got me curious to understand why it was brought into the conversation. I will have to ask her the next time that we talk.

The video had feedback and overlap that I couldn't follow it.

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

Bèlla said:
In respect to dating...

The concept hails from Jewish teachings on the bashert. The notion there's a preordained person we're meant to marry. Our divine partner. Soulmate implies a similar ideal.

Do I agree?

I have a close connection. It has broken on 3 occasions. The Lord reconciled us every time. We've known each other 18 years. Our disagreements mirror the splits. We never argue. We've reached the conclusion He wants us together and stay put. She is my Jonathan.

Another was for a time. It stretched me spiritually. I reached a summit I've never known. A drive I can't replicate. He brought me closer to God. But he's an atheist.

The last is closer to the ideal you're addressing. We were friends and the Lord brought him to my attention. In many respects he's a combination of the two. He's a lot like my best friend. Our connection has weathered separations. The Lord put us back together in every instance. We don't argue either.

Unlike other men, I have a deeper sense of consciousness where he's concerned. I'm experiencing a similar challenge I didn't encounter with others. He inspires a want for holiness no one has. When I fall short it hurts. Much like before, I try to do my best. But I'm out of practice. I haven't hit my stride yet but I'll get there.

The desire of my heart was to find someone like my best friend. I wanted a spiritual union. Someone nestled in my soul. That isn't euphoric and it doesn't hail from Eros. Its found in agape. I'm not orchestrating what's happening inside of me. God's stirring the waters for His purposes.

Is he my bashert?

I believe so. Or I'm coming undone.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

Bella thanks for sharing about the Jewish teachings. I didn't know that. It makes me think about the rabbi I studied under 10 years ago and he hired a Matchmaker for his second wife since he was divorced. He talked about his searching time like he was incomplete until he had his wife. I wonder if any of those kinds of teachings made him feel like a failure? Myself I have not believed in soulmates since in early age. Elizabeth Elliott is the woman in my twenties that I looked up to and knowing her story and the three husbands that she had I just couldn't see soulmates factoring in. Especially in the New testament teachings of Jesus and what he says about a man and a woman not marrying in heaven.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. Those are some things to think about. I find value in sharing experiences because sometimes there's something to be gained not only for the one who experienced it but maybe someone else who has experienced it. Blessings,

bèlla · Oct 20, 2020

sampa said:
That's probably why I question why I thought the topic about Free Will being brought in as a topic to the discussion by the friend seemed kind of odd and out of place. But I got me curious to understand why it was brought into the conversation. I will have to ask her the next time that we talk.

Because some equate God's choice as an absence of choice. They believe He'll force them to do something against their will. In respect to dating, some worry they won't like His choice.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
I see no evidence in the bible that much Of anything is predestined. Of course Christ was predestined, but aside from special plans God has, it's pretty much on us who we marry or whatever. Free will is very important to God.

Someone mentioned predestined salvation, and I agree with them, run fast from any such theology as it is not the truth.

thanks for sharing your thoughts. I will probably have to ask the friend what she meant by what she said the last time that I had a conversation with her. Her thoughts might align with yours concerning the free will, since that is what she mentioned.

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

Sketcher said:
If it's all predestination, it doesn't matter what you choose, what God wants for you will happen. (This doesn't mean that you'll be getting a good spouse out of the deal since God might not want that for you, like with Hosea and Jeremiah.)

If it's free will, then your choices matter.

Sketcher. Thanks for your thoughts and your breakdown of both sides. I think this is kind of what I was looking for was to see both of these broken down. Blessings,

bèlla · Oct 20, 2020

sampa said:
He talked about his searching time like he was incomplete until he had his wife. I wonder if any of those kinds of teachings made him feel like a failure?

If he was married for some time the absence would be deeply felt. You get used to certain things.

Judaism emphasize relationships. Community is a huge focus. The notion of celibacy or remaining alone isn't prominent. Many believe marriage is a duty. The family is enfolded in the synagogue. You don't have the divisions you see in Christian settings. Togetherness is foremost. At the close of worship, we gather for a meal.

Inclusiveness is embedded in the Jewish ethos. It wouldn't matter if you're single, childless, etc. Distinctions aren't made. Old and young sit side by side. Because we're one. That's reinforced in your study, worship, interactions, etc. You're living a form of oneness as a Jew.

I can't say what influenced his comments. But marriage is held in high esteem. It isn't viewed in the singular. 'We' is ever present. The community benefits from the union. As does society and so on. The practical, familial, spiritual, and social elements are reinforced. Duty is a huge part of Jewish identity. A person who feels bound to marry will pursue it.

Singleness and celibacy are terms you'll rarely hear. You've got progressives. But the majority desire connections. I befriended an Orthodox Jew years ago. She was trying to find me someone! She didn't ask either. *lol*

That's the culture. I wouldn't be single in my forties in a synagogue. There'd be some matchmaking taking place behind closed doors.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

Bèlla said:
If he was married for some time the absence would be deeply felt. You get used to certain things.

Judaism emphasize relationships. Community is a huge focus. The notion of celibacy or remaining alone isn't prominent. Many believe marriage is a duty. The family is enfolded in the synagogue. You don't have the divisions you see in Christian settings. Togetherness is foremost. At the close of worship, we gather for a meal.

Inclusiveness is embedded in the Jewish ethos. It wouldn't matter if you're single, childless, etc. Distinctions aren't made. Old and young sit side by side. Because we're one. That's reinforced in your study, worship, interactions, etc. You're living a form of oneness as a Jew.

I can't say what influenced his comments. But marriage is held in high esteem. It isn't viewed in the singular. 'We' is ever present. The community benefits from the union. As does society and so on. The practical, familial, spiritual, and social elements are reinforced. Duty is a huge part of Jewish identity. A person who feels bound to marry will pursue it.

Singleness and celibacy are terms you'll rarely hear. You've got progressives. But the majority desire connections. I befriended an Orthodox Jew years ago. She was trying to find me someone! She didn't ask either. *lol*

That's the culture. I wouldn't be single in my forties in a synagogue. There'd be some matchmaking taking place behind closed doors.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

Yes, he and his family are Orthodox jews. Family is Central to Jewish communities. They kind of adopted me while I was training with the Air Force for 3 months in that area. I loved what I learned from him and his family. I just remember that when I would have a study with him how he would reflect on the time for his second wife being one of the lowest points of his life.

That's interesting about your Orthodox Jew friend. Marriage for me was never brought up in conversation with him and his family. I loved celebrating Sabbath with them and learning about the traditions. Especially the food. I do think he was kind of trying to convert me to orthodox judaism. I also have another friend that was the youngest chaplain in the Air Force, living in New York and he also taught me many things. That was 10 years ago and he is still single. I think he was 28 or 29 years old then. Which is kind of interesting considering that most Orthodox Jews try to marry young. He's an ENTJ. Thanks for your insight.

bèlla · Oct 20, 2020

sampa said:
That's interesting about your Orthodox Jew friend. Marriage for me was never brought up in conversation with him and his family.

I attended the synagogue then. Although its Conservative, I'm naturally frum. That's one of the reasons she addressed the subject. I needed a partner with a reverence for God.

I loved celebrating Sabbath with them and learning about the traditions. Especially the food. I do think he was kind of trying to convert me to orthodox judaism.

Many Jews open their homes for Shabbat and share meals with non Jews, seekers, and others desiring fellowship. There's a network in place to accommodate the practice. In terms of conversion, that's more involved. They would never ask. You have to petition them. The Orthodox are very strict. A denial is guaranteed. They want you to consider the ramifications of your choice. You're not adopting a faith. You're joining a people. Most Orthodox converts ask more than once before they're accepted. The process takes two to three years.

I also have another friend that was the youngest chaplain in the Air Force, living in New York and he also taught me many things. That was 10 years ago and he is still single. I think he was 28 or 29 years old then. Which is kind of interesting considering that most Orthodox Jews try to marry young. He's an ENTJ. Thanks for your insight.

He's in the bedrock of Judaism. Finding a wife in that environment isn't hard. He may be single for other reasons.

ENTJs are leaders. They like giving orders and having control. They're not followers. Being in a culture that requires cohesion will brush against our nature. Unless it makes sense. Buy-in is a must.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

Sorn · Oct 20, 2020

Your life is not pre-destined, you have free will and your choices make a difference. God can also act in your life if He chooses to. God also knows what you will choose and how your life will go but that does not mean its pre-destined.

Think about it like this. Suppose i have the ability to see the future and use that to look at this weeks lottery numbers. I then use those numbers on a ticket and win the lottery.
Just because I could see the future and know the numbers does not in any way mean i had anything to do with those numbers coming up.
Just because God can see your life does not mean He makes your life events happen, He may on occasion but in general He doesn't and probably doesn't at all for most people.

Kenny'sID · Oct 20, 2020

sampa said:
thanks for sharing your thoughts. I will probably have to ask the friend what she meant by what she said the last time that I had a conversation with her. Her thoughts might align with yours concerning the free will, since that is what she mentioned.

On a semi side note,

For this and other questions about God, it has always helped me to veiw him like the parent that he actually is, father or mother.

Would a good parent predestin us to anything, as in force us to go their way in life...probably not. And it is true there are groups of people that predestin marriage, but that is rare, and most feel that is wrong. Almost all of us have a choice as far as our parents are concerned, and there always seems to be trouble when a parents insist we go their way.

We were all created in God's image, so as long as our thought are good, and in line with how God wants us to think, we might be surprised, in that the way we treat others, might be exactly how he would treat them. A logic combined with love combination.

Not always, so it never hurts to get other opinions like you are doing, but often enough, that rule of thumb works for me for understanding the bible, and for how I treat people.

zippy2006 · Oct 20, 2020

sampa said:
So I was talking to somebody the other day and we were talking about what I've learned from people I have dated this past year. And things I have learned and how God was involved.

The person I was talking to said something about that she believes more in God giving us Free Will how things happen (ex: dating). She said the other person that is in our phone prayer group would be more on the predestination side. Can someone explain more about this? Is there some kind of theology that leans more towards one than the other? And how God is involved?

And please I don't want any arguing or taking different sides in this thread. I'm just genuinely trying to understand the distinction. I have studied reformed doctrines a little bit, and I'm not sure if that's what she's referencing.

How does predestination factor in when dating people? And how does free will factor into dating? I'm sure some of the answers are obvious but I just thought it was a strange thing to bring up when I was talking about what I've learned.

I also don't think it really matters. The first way it would matter is if someone believes they know what God has predestined. Of course as a matter of fact we don't know what God has predestined with respect to dating, but if someone convinced themselves that they know what God has predestined then that belief might shape the way they approach a date or a relationship.

The second way it would matter is if someone thinks that predestination means their actions don't matter because they have no control over the future. Again, not true, but if someone believed that then they would not take their own actions very seriously regarding dating.

My advice is to not think about predestination at all when it comes to dating. Think about compatibility, character, God's law, and what kinds of relationships are holy, Godly relationships. Don't worry about predestination.

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

Bèlla said:
attended the synagogue then. Although its Conservative, I'm naturally frum. That's one of the reasons she addressed the subject. I needed a partner with a reverence for God.

That makes sense.

Bèlla said:
In terms of conversion, that's more involved.

I'm sure it is. He just was unusual because I think he was working around so many chaplains that were Christian and he talked about them trying to convert him. he was just a different kind of guy all around as far as Rabbi are. He didn't get along with many people. But I got along with him.

Bèlla said:
He may be single for other reasons.

That's true. I haven't talked to him in probably 8 to 9 years and I probably should send a message to see how he's doing. When I was doing 30 days of scripture on my social media and I could see who was watching, he was and he liked some of my scripture and also laughed at one of them which I didn't understand. But I'm sure it's some kind of Jewish proverb that relates to the scripture.

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

Sorn said:
Your life is not pre-destined, you have free will and your choices make a difference. God can also act in your life if He chooses to. God also knows what you will choose and how your life will go but that does not mean its pre-destined.

Think about it like this. Suppose i have the ability to see the future and use that to look at this weeks lottery numbers. I then use those numbers on a ticket and win the lottery.
Just because I could see the future and know the numbers does not in any way mean i had anything to do with those numbers coming up.
Just because God can see your life does not mean He makes your life events happen, He may on occasion but in general He doesn't and probably doesn't at all for most people.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Some more things to think on.

sampa · Oct 20, 2020

zippy2006 said:
My advice is to not think about predestination at all when it comes to dating. Think about compatibility, character, God's law, and what kinds of relationships are holy, Godly relationships. Don't worry about predestination.

Agreed.

Sunshinee777 · Jan 26, 2021

d taylor said:
Predestination in the Bible is directed toward service.
For and example God chose The Nation of Israel as a people for Himself. Because satan had the gentile kingdoms of the world. So God chose out of gentiles a person (Abram) than He would have grow a people for Himself.
God also chose Mary to birth The Messiah.

Not sure if the Bible supports that God predestines people to dating or marriage.

God did this to Adam and Eve, I believe He is doing this to Christian's aswell. I don't have any doubts.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) · Jan 27, 2021

All the predestination Calvinists I've run into were lazy and passive when it came to getting things done. Whether that was finding a SO that they supposed God would drop in their lap one day or evangelizing the lost. That's not to say there aren't strong and sound believers out there who believe like Calvin. But I've yet to meet them.

#Calvinpredestinationisahellishdoctrine

Sketcher · Jan 27, 2021

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:
All the predestination Calvinists I've run into were lazy and passive when it came to getting things done. Whether that was finding a SO that they supposed God would drop in their lap one day or evangelizing the lost. That's not to say there aren't strong and sound believers out there who believe like Calvin. But I've yet to meet them.

#Calvinpredestinationisahellishdoctrine

It takes a certain amount of diligence to write harsh blogs and sermons against any other theological viewpoint, though. The stereotypical Calvinist is not The Dude.

DragonFox91 · Jan 28, 2021

I'm probably pre-destined to be single eternal & I hate it.

Free Will and Predestination - dating

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic

Born Imperishable

Veteran

Veteran

❤️

Veteran

Veteran

❤️

Veteran

❤️

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dragonsworn

Veteran

Veteran

Veteran

Well-Known Member

<><

Born Imperishable

Well-Known Member

Similar threads