SO MANY CHURCH'S - WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH (Scripture)?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

Hi everyone,

Just some questions for friendly discussion (answers to be based on the scriptures please). According to some consensus' there have been recorded between 40,000 to 50,000 different Christian Church denominations believe it or not. Now I do not know how accurate these numbers are but let's say for arguments sake even if there was only 5 different Christian Church's all professing to be the chosen of God, how are you going to know who has God's truth and who truly is God's Church? I think this will be an interesting topic as JESUS warns us in the last days that many will come in his name and there will be many false prophets (messengers) and false Christs (Head's of the body which is the church).

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION (scripture please; Answers linked as answered).

Q1. How do the scriptures define Church?
Q2. How can we know who is God's true Church?
Q3. Who does the bible define as God's people that make up His Church?
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant?
Q5. BABYLON has fallen? Who is BABYLON and leave what to where?

...............

My view which I will show latter through the scriptures is that God's people make up his Church, and they are defined in the scriptures as all those who are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them and are knowingly believing and following his Word. This means God's people are in every Church but not every Church is God's - There is a calling out coming according to REVELATION 18:1-5 because the Church's professing Christianity have fallen away from God and his Word.

This of course should be obvious to everyone as there is not only scriptures foretelling this but from the very fact that there are 40,000 or 50,000 different denominations of Christianity recorded today all professing to be God's true Church. Not all of them have the correct understanding of the scriptures and as such cannot all be God's true Church right?

I will look to provide scripture proof latter and link them to this OP showing why I believe this way. I believe that God is calling his people where ever they may be, and from what ever Church they may be in, back to His Word. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is calling His sheep out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God.

Friendly discussion please. What are your thoughts?

God bless.

HTacianas · Oct 19, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi everyone,

Just a question for friendly discussion please based on the scriptures. According to some consensus' there have been recorded between 40,000 to 50,000 different Christian Church denominations believe it or not. Now I do not know how accurate these numbers are but let's say for arguments sake even if there was only 5 different Christian Church's all professing to be the chosen of God, how are you going to know who has God's truth and who truly is God's Church? I think this will be an interesting topic as JESUS warns us in the last days that many will come in his name and there will be many false prophets (messengers) and false Christs (Head's of the body which is the church).

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION (scripture please).

Q1. How do the scriptures define Church?
Q2. With so many Christian Church's in the world all professing Christ how can we know who is God's true Church?
Q3. How does the bible define as God's people?
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant?
Q4. Who is Gods Church according to the scriptures in the New covenant?

Friendly discussion please. What are your thoughts?

God bless.

Look for a Church mentioned in the bible.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

HTacianas said:
Look for a Church mentioned in the bible.

I think you have pointed to the key here HTacianas good post. So what do the scriptures teach in your view?

Lost4words · Oct 19, 2020

Jesus built His church on Peter, the rock. The Catholic church.

Matthew 16:18
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Danigt22 · Oct 19, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi everyone,

Just a question for friendly discussion please based on the scriptures. According to some consensus' there have been recorded between 40,000 to 50,000 different Christian Church denominations believe it or not. Now I do not know how accurate these numbers are but let's say for arguments sake even if there was only 5 different Christian Church's all professing to be the chosen of God, how are you going to know who has God's truth and who truly is God's Church? I think this will be an interesting topic as JESUS warns us in the last days that many will come in his name and there will be many false prophets (messengers) and false Christs (Head's of the body which is the church).

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION (scripture please).

Q1. How do the scriptures define Church?
Q2. With so many Christian Church's in the world all professing Christ how can we know who is God's true Church?
Q3. How does the bible define as God's people?
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant?
Q4. Who is Gods Church according to the scriptures in the New covenant?

Friendly discussion please. What are your thoughts?

God bless.

My personal opinion is this
Q1. How do the scriptures define Church? The body of Christ. It isnt a nicolaitan organization that is for sure.
Q2. With so many Christian Church's in the world all professing Christ how can we know who is God's true Church? Anyone who believes in his heart the lord Jesus Christ is our lord and savior, he is the word of God make flesh, he died in the cross and was raise from the dead the third day to wash our sins.
Q3. How does the bible define as God's people? We are part of his body, we are sons and daughters of God.
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant? He is the same, it was Israel who gave their back to God.
Q5. Who is Gods Church according to the scriptures in the New covenant? The sons and daughter of God.

rockytopva · Oct 19, 2020

I believe in the seven churches as seven general congregations...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

So they all got their issues. The Apostle Paul once said, “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.” - Romans 7:18

pescador · Oct 19, 2020

Lost4words said:
Jesus built His church on Peter, the rock. The Catholic church.

Matthew 16:18
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Oy! Again? Shortly after Jesus called Peter "Peter" -- He never called him "the rock" -- Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” (Matthew 16:23) => Think about that for a moment!! <=

So according to your logic, Jesus built His church on Satan! Of course that is nonsense, but it shows the fallacy of your thinking and/or the teaching of the Catholic church regarding Peter being "the rock" and/or the first Pope.

Let's also not forget that Peter -- your "rock" -- denied Jesus out loud three times.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

Lost4words said:
Jesus built His church on Peter, the rock. The Catholic church. Matthew 16:18 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

For me I believe Gods' people are in every Church. The bible does not teach that the Catholic Church is God's Church however. Even this scripture you have provided is very debatable as to it's correct meaning. I personally believe that Matthew 16:18 is referring to JESUS as the Rock on who he will build His Church. The Greek word for Peter means Pebble. Jesus as the rock was referring to himself. The rock according to the scriptures represents JESUS all throughout the bible *Matthew 16:18; 1 Corinthians 10:4 Matthew 7:24; Psalms 62:7-8; 1 Peter 2:8; Psalms 89:26; Isaiah 8:14; 1 Corinthians 10:4; 1 Corinthians 3:11; Psalms 118:22; 1 Peter 2:6; Romans 9:33; Ephesians 2:20.

Thanks for sharing your view though.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

Danigt22 said:
My personal opinion is this
Q1. How do the scriptures define Church? The body of Christ. It isnt a nicolaitan organization that is for sure.
Q2. With so many Christian Church's in the world all professing Christ how can we know who is God's true Church? Anyone who believes in his heart the lord Jesus Christ is our lord and savior, he is the word of God make flesh, he died in the cross and was raise from the dead the third day to wash our sins.
Q3. How does the bible define as God's people? We are part of his body, we are sons and daughters of God.
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant? He is the same, it was Israel who gave their back to God.
Q5. Who is Gods Church according to the scriptures in the New covenant? The sons and daughter of God.

Thanks Dan, there is some good points in this posts which I also agree on. Do you know where to find the scriptures to support your view here?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

rockytopva said:
I believe in the seven churches as seven general congregations...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

So they all got their issues. The Apostle Paul once said, “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.” - Romans 7:18

Hi Rocky, interesting interpretation from Revelations. I have not heard it this way before but appreciate your thoughts. I do also believe God's people are in every Church but not every Church of course is God's Church. So who do the scriptures define as God's people in your view?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

pescador said:
Oy! Again? Shortly after Jesus called Peter "Peter" -- He never called him "the rock" -- Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” (Matthew 16:23) => Think about that for a moment!! <=

So according to your logic, Jesus built His church on Satan! Of course that is nonsense, but it shows the fallacy of your thinking and/or the teaching of the Catholic church regarding Peter being "the rock" and/or the first Pope.

Let's also not forget that Peter -- your "rock" -- denied Jesus out loud three times.

So true Pescador, well presented. Thanks for sharing your view. The question we must consider is who does God's Word define as His saints?

d taylor · Oct 19, 2020

Right now it is made up of the invisible church, there is no one denomination.

All who have trusted in the Messiah, for Gods free gift of Eternal Life is a member of The Church

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

d taylor said:
Right now it is made up of the invisible church, there is no one denomination.

All who have trusted in the Messiah, for Gods free gift of Eternal Life is a member of The Church

Yes this is my view as well DT, do you have scripture support for your view? What does the bible say to support your view?

Lost4words · Oct 19, 2020

pescador said:
Oy! Again? Shortly after Jesus called Peter "Peter" -- He never called him "the rock" -- Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” (Matthew 16:23) => Think about that for a moment!! <=

So according to your logic, Jesus built His church on Satan! Of course that is nonsense, but it shows the fallacy of your thinking and/or the teaching of the Catholic church regarding Peter being "the rock" and/or the first Pope.

Let's also not forget that Peter -- your "rock" -- denied Jesus out loud three times.

Peter means rock. Cephas means rock.

Peter the Rock

You will always disagree as the truth hurts what you believe my friend.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

Lost4words said:
Peter means rock. Cephas means rock.

Peter the Rock

You will always disagree as the truth hurts what you believe my friend.

Actually no, "Peter" in the Koine Greek means pebble or fragment of a Rock.
The scriptures provided above to you in my previous post where provided to prove that JESUS is only ever referred to as the "Rock" in the scriptures and never Peter. In Koine Greek petros generally meant "pebble or rock fragment," while petra meant "boulder" or "cliff". Accordingly, taking Peter's name means "pebble" The scripture says "And I tell you that you are Peter (Πέτρος; G4074 Petros a (piece of) rock pebble and on this rock (JESUS πέτρα; G4073 petra a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock). I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. The Church was not built on Peter but the teachings of Christ and the Word of God (the chief cornerstone the builders rejected) that JESUS commissioned his 12 Apostles to give to the world. The gates of Hell did prevail against Peter many times although to his credit he acknowledged his mistakes and repented. The gates of Hell never prevailed against JESUS and all the scriptures of the old and new testament declare JESUS as the "Rock" not Peter (Go read some of those scriptures in the previous post).

God bless

Aussie Pete · Oct 19, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi everyone,

Just a question for friendly discussion please based on the scriptures. According to some consensus' there have been recorded between 40,000 to 50,000 different Christian Church denominations believe it or not. Now I do not know how accurate these numbers are but let's say for arguments sake even if there was only 5 different Christian Church's all professing to be the chosen of God, how are you going to know who has God's truth and who truly is God's Church? I think this will be an interesting topic as JESUS warns us in the last days that many will come in his name and there will be many false prophets (messengers) and false Christs (Head's of the body which is the church).

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION (scripture please).

Q1. How do the scriptures define Church?
Q2. With so many Christian Church's in the world all professing Christ how can we know who is God's true Church?
Q3. How does the bible define as God's people?
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant?
Q4. Who is Gods Church according to the scriptures in the New covenant?

...............

My view which I will show latter through the scriptures is that God's people make up his Church, and they are defined in the scriptures as all those who are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them and are knowingly believing and following his Word. This means God's people are in every Church but not every Church is God's - There is a calling out coming according to REVELATION 18:1-5 because the Church's professing Christianity has fallen away from God and his Word. This of course should be obvious to everyone not only foretold in the scripture but from the fact that there are 40,000 or 50,000 denominations of Christianity recorded today. Not all of them can be right and God's true Church right? I will provide the scriptures proof latter and link them to this OP showing why I believe this way. I believe that God is calling his people where ever they may be back to the pure Word of God, as God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is calling the true worshipers out from following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God.

Friendly discussion please. What are your thoughts?

God bless.

It is very simple. The Church is all those who are born again, whatever their spiritual state. (John 3:7 etc.)

We can recognise those who are born again by their fruit. We know that we have passed from death to life when we love the brethren. (1 John 3:14)

Division is a result of carnal thinking and selfish ambition. There is only one church. Each locality has an expression of the church - Paul wrote to the church in Corinth, to the church in Ephesus and so on. He rebuked the Corinthians for fragmenting into cliques. And that was within the Corinthian fellowship!

The idea that everyone must be perfectly in theological agreement is simply false. (Philippians 3:15) God, in the Person of His Holy Spirit, is the One who will will lead us into all truth.

The letter to the Ephesians is a rich exposition of what God has done for us in Christ, how the believer should behave in the light of what God has done and, finally, the great spiritual battle that confronts all believers. Study diligently and rejoice!!!

Lost4words · Oct 19, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Actually no, "Peter" in the Koine Greek means pebble or fragment of a Rock.
The scriptures provided above to you in my previous post where provided to prove that JESUS is only ever referred to as the "Rock" in the scriptures and never Peter. In Koine Greek petros generally meant "pebble or rock fragment," while petra meant "boulder" or "cliff". Accordingly, taking Peter's name means "pebble" The scripture says "And I tell you that you are Peter (Πέτρος; G4074 Petros a (piece of) rock pebble and on this rock (JESUS πέτρα; G4073 petra a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock). I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. The Church was not built on Peter but the teachings of Christ and the Word of God (the chief cornerstone the builders rejected) that JESUS commissioned his 12 Apostles to give to the world. The gates of Hell did prevail against Peter many times although to his credit he acknowledged his mistakes and repented. The gates of Hell never prevailed against JESUS and all the scriptures of the old and new testament declare JESUS as the "Rock" not Peter (Go read some of those scriptures in the previous post).

God bless

OTHER SCRIPTS:
ARMENIAN (ՊԵՏՐՈՍ)
ORIGIN:
SYRIAC / ARAMAIC / GREEK
NAME ROOT:
KEFA > KĒPHÂS > PÉTRĀ > PÉTROS > PETRUS
NATIVE NAME ROOT:
KĒPHÂS (ΚΗΦΑ͂Σ) PETR (פטר) PÉTRĀ ‎(ΠΈΤΡᾹ) PÉTROS (ΠΈΤΡΟΣ
MEANING:

This name derives from Latin "petra" (Petrus), from the Ancient Greek “pétrā ‎(πέτρᾱ) Pétros (Πέτρος)”, from the Aramaic word “kephas”, which in turn from the Syriac “kefa”, all words meaning “stone, rock” (figurative meaning: solid, strong and resolute). Saint Peter, according to ancient tradition was a prominent early Christian leader, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ, according to the New Testament. He is venerated as a saint and considered by the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and Oriental Orthodoxy to be the first bishop of Rome and first Pope. Roman Catholics consider him to have been the first Pope and all subsequent popes to have been his successors, and therefore sometimes refer to the Pope or the Papacy itself as Peter.
KEYWORDS:
BIBLICAL / RELIGION (BISHOPS) / RELIGION (POPES) / RELIGION (SAINTS)

Petros - Name's Meaning of Petros

Gregorikos · Oct 19, 2020

HTacianas said:
Look for a Church mentioned in the bible.

Right? So if you want to convince people you're the "one true church" be sure to choose a name for yourself right out of the Bible. Then you can point to that and say, "See? It's right there!"

LoveGodsWord · Oct 19, 2020

Lost4words said:
OTHER SCRIPTS:
ARMENIAN (ՊԵՏՐՈՍ)
ORIGIN:
SYRIAC / ARAMAIC / GREEK
NAME ROOT:
KEFA > KĒPHÂS > PÉTRĀ > PÉTROS > PETRUS
NATIVE NAME ROOT:
KĒPHÂS (ΚΗΦΑ͂Σ) PETR (פטר) PÉTRĀ ‎(ΠΈΤΡᾹ) PÉTROS (ΠΈΤΡΟΣ
MEANING:

This name derives from Latin "petra" (Petrus), from the Ancient Greek “pétrā ‎(πέτρᾱ) Pétros (Πέτρος)”, from the Aramaic word “kephas”, which in turn from the Syriac “kefa”, all words meaning “stone, rock” (figurative meaning: solid, strong and resolute). Saint Peter, according to ancient tradition was a prominent early Christian leader, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ, according to the New Testament. He is venerated as a saint and considered by the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and Oriental Orthodoxy to be the first bishop of Rome and first Pope. Roman Catholics consider him to have been the first Pope and all subsequent popes to have been his successors, and therefore sometimes refer to the Pope or the Papacy itself as Peter.
KEYWORDS:
BIBLICAL / RELIGION (BISHOPS) / RELIGION (POPES) / RELIGION (SAINTS)

The bible was written in Koine Greek not Aramaic. That was easy.

Lost4words · Oct 19, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
The bible was written in Greek not Aramaic. That was easy.

Jesus spoke in Aramaic. That is even easier..

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