Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

Jesse Dornfeld · Oct 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
Jesus never said "scripture is abolished ... from now on just take what I say as the new scripture" as if Christ was not the one speaking in the OT or the Holy Spirit inspired text of scripture is not Christ speaking. In Hebrews 8:6-12 it is "Christ" speaking at Sinai.

Do you keep the Torah? Or the Oral traditions of the Oral Torah that was taught at Jesus time?

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

HIM said:
Hi my friend may you and yours have happy and peaceful Sabbath.

May I ask why you use the NIV.

The following WHOLE verses have been removed in the NIV (in the text or footnotes)…over 40 VERSES and COUNTING!!!

Matthew 17:21 — COMPLETELY removed .

“Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.”

Matthew 18:11 — COMPLETELY removed.

“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”

Matthew 21:44 — removed in the footnotes

Matthew 23:14 — COMPLETELY removed.

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.”

Mark 7:16 — COMPLETELY removed.

Matthew 12:47 — removed in the footnotes

“If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.”

Mark 9:44 — COMPLETELY removed.

“Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

Mark 9:46 — COMPLETELY removed .

“Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

Mark 11:26 — COMPLETELY removed.

“But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”

Mark 15:28 — COMPLETELY removed .

“And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.”

Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) — There is a line separating the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text; and right under the line it says: The two most reliable early manuscripts do not have Mark 16:9-20] (NIV, 1978 ed.)

Luke 17:36 — COMPLETELY removed.

“Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”

Luke 22:44 — removed in the footnotes

Luke 22:43 — removed in the footnotes

Luke 23:17 — COMPLETELY removed.

“(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)”

John 5:4 — COMPLETELY removed .

“For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.”

John 7:53-8:11 — removed in the footnotes

Acts 8:37 — COMPLETELY removed. It’s deletion makes one think that people can be baptized and saved without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Sounds Catholic.

“And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Acts 15:34 — COMPLETELY removed .

“Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.”

Acts 24:7 — COMPLETELY removed.

“But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,”

Acts 28:29 — COMPLETELY removed.

“And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.”

Romans 16:24 — COMPLETELY removed.

“The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.”

I John 5:7 — Vitally important phrase COMPLETELY removed. In the NIV it says,”For there are three that testify:”

Link

Do you know why they are missing?

I use NASB
Many people I know use NKJV
and a lot of people still use KJV

Is it your claim that the 4th commandment could only be affirmed if one was limited to NIV alone?

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

True Counterphobia said:
Do you keep the Torah? Or the Oral traditions of the Oral Torah that was taught at Jesus time?

1. Sola scriptura - Acts 17:11 and Mark 7:6-13 make that clear.
2. Hebrews 10 is very clear that the sacrifices and offerings of ceremonial laws end at the cross

These are bible details so obvious that both sides of the Sabbath issue affirm them.

And of course the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 affirms that the Law is divided into sections such as the moral law (that includes all TEN of the ten commandments) and the ceremonial law and the civil law etc.

So also does the "Westminster Confession of faith" also affirm this detail so it is not like "only people who keep the 7th day know about this"

Which is why my signature has this...

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism. :groupray:

And of course 7th day groups

ViaCrucis · Oct 17, 2020

imge said:
To love God (which is His greatest commandment) is shown to Him when we obey His commandments.

1 John 5 1-3 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

God gives us the Holy Spirit to help keep His commandments not change them.

John 14:15-18
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Before the crucifixion Jesus said John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments."

God says He is unchanging
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Therefore His commandments written by the finger of God on stone cannot be changed.

He even gives us this warning for changing anything in the Bible:

A Warning
Revelations 22:18,19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

All you now have to do is show where God commands Christians to rest on the seventh day in the New Testament.

Can you do that?

-CryptoLutheran

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

prodromos said:
Yet all churches established by the Apostles worship liturgically and all worship primarily on Sunday. It doesn't matter whether the church is in India where the Apostle Thomas preached, Greece where Paul preached or England or Ethiopia etc. this is what history demonstrates.

There are various sources that people use for establishing doctrine

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
All you now have to do is show where God commands Christians to rest on the seventh day in the New Testament.

Can you do that?

-CryptoLutheran

Or where Jesus specifically said "delete all the word of God except for what I just said a minute ago"
Or where Jesus specifically said "do not take God's name in vain"

Or why it is that Jesus said "Commandment of God" = "Word of God" = "Moses said" In Mark 7:6-13 if what He really meant to teach is "word of God abolished"

HIM · Oct 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
I use NASB
Many people I know use NKJV
and a lot of people still use KJV

Is it your claim that the 4th commandment could only be affirmed if one was limited to NIV alone?

A Happy Sabbath to you and yours BobRyan,
No my friend. If you don't mind I would like to wait for our friend to reply to see his answer. With his response I will tag you if it is possible in this format so you can see what is being set to be shared.

Thank you for being patient,
your friend Scott

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

HIM said:
So says the Catholic Church, those who persecuted God's children for hundreds of years. Their heresy preserved through documents "they thought" worthy of preservation. But I guess this is not a bad thing entirely.

Actually History tells us by 100 ADish they were keeping the Sabbath and in honor of the resurrection they kept Sunday also.

Ignatius of Antioch a bishop of Antioch wrote:

"Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness …. let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival."

IGNATIUS, EPISTLE TO THE MAGNESIANS

No longer keep means up to that point they were keeping it. So your information is not true. And incidentally there is nothing in the Scriptures that says we are to worship on the 1st day of the week in honor of Christ's resurrection. GOD DID HOWEVER give us Communion in honoring of HIS resurrection and the Gift of the Gospel. So let us do it often in remembrance of Him.

This is a good point from history from a witness showing that they were keeping the Sabbath but were not keeping it "in idleness" .. BTW that would be a good place for ignatius to say "we ignore the Sabbath Commandment" or "we now call week-day-1 the Sabbath" or ...

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

HIM said:
A Happy Sabbath to you and yours BobRyan,
No my friend. If you don't mind I would like to wait for our friend to reply to see his answer. With his response I will tag you if it is possible in this format so you can see what is being set to be shared.

Thank you for being patient,
your friend Scott

thank you my friend - happy Sabbath.

That's fine - I am not trying to divert this over to NIV vs ...

I just wanted to be sure you are not arguing that affirming the 4th commandment is only possible if one limits the discussion to NIV-only.

ViaCrucis · Oct 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
Or where Jesus specifically said "delete all the word of God except for what I just said a minute ago"
Or where Jesus specifically said "do not take God's name in vain"

Or why it is that Jesus said "Commandment of God" = "Word of God" = "Moses said" In Mark 7:6-13 if what He really meant to teach is "word of God abolished"

I've noticed that you didn't bother to show where God commands Christians to rest on the seventh day. That's because you know that it doesn't exist.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesse Dornfeld · Oct 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
1. Sola scriptura - Acts 17:11 and Mark 7:6-13 make that clear.
2. Hebrews 10 is very clear that the sacrifices and offerings of ceremonial laws end at the cross

These are bible details so obvious that both sides of the Sabbath issue affirm them.

Which is why my signature has this...

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Are you aware the MJ community have a vastly different perspective than what you are saying here? So, who are you to judge? You can confirm your own perspective but if it is not convenient for you, you ignore it?

HIM · Oct 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
This is a good point from history from a witness showing that they were keeping the Sabbath but were not keeping it "in idleness" .. BTW that would be a good place for ignatius to say "we ignore the Sabbath Commandment" or "we now call week-day-1 the Sabbath" or ...

I was just thinking of editing that post and I noticed you had affirmed it. I would like to add to that post sir if you don't mind. He said much more than that my friend.

Ignatius of Antioch a bishop of Antioch wrote:

"Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness …. let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival."

IGNATIUS, EPISTLE TO THE MAGNESIANS

No longer keep means up to that point they were keeping it. So your information is not true. And incidentally there is nothing in the Scriptures that says we are to worship on the 1st day of the week in honor of Christ's resurrection. GOD DID HOWEVER give us Communion in honoring of HIS resurrection and the Gift of the Gospel. So let us do it often in remembrance of Him. Incidentally please take note. Ignatius did not suggest that we no longer keep the Sabbath but that we no longer keep it after the Jewish manner. That we rejoice in the day of idleness. As if there was a state of contrite solemness with out rejoicing. Also it would be worthy to notice that Sunday is not mentioned as a day of worship but to be as a festival. Not as replacement but in addition.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
All you now have to do is show where God commands Christians to rest on the seventh day in the New Testament.

Can you do that?

-CryptoLutheran

Does God need to repeat Himself? The ONLY scripture in the entire Bible written by the hand of God is no longer applicable? Satan is really making an impact if people really believe that. He clearly states in both the Old and New Testament to keep His commandments, the 4th commandment is part of of The Commandments, written by God's finger. Saturday Sabbath is a day that He blessed. Jesus kept the Sabbath. Jesus said Sabbath was made for man.

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
- Mark 2:27

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
- Isaiah 58:13

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord
- Isaiah 66:23

There's a lot of scripture that supports seventh-day Sabbath, nothing to support the first day Sunday being a Holy day that our loving Lord Sanctified or Blessed.

I hope you have a Blessed day!

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
I've noticed that you didn't bother to show where God commands Christians to rest on the seventh day.

The OP already points out God's command "to all mankind" that "from Sabbath to Sabbath all mankind is to come before God to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - Is 66:23

and no command to "Not take God's name in vain" in NT

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

True Counterphobia said:
Are you aware the MJ community have a vastly different perspective than what you are saying here? So, who are you to judge? You can confirm your own perspective but if it is not convenient for you, you ignore it?

Everyone has free will.

The question put to me was "why do you not keep oral tradition" - I am pointing to divisions in the Law that are admitted by both sides of this topic.. even Paul in 1 Cor 7:19

The question put to me was not "Why do MJ's do this or that"

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

HIM said:
Ignatius of Antioch a bishop of Antioch wrote:

"Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness …. let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival."

IGNATIUS, EPISTLE TO THE MAGNESIANS

It is clear that Lev 23:2-3 makes the Sabbath "a day of holy convocation" and not idleness

ViaCrucis · Oct 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
The OP already points out God's command "to all mankind" that "from Sabbath to Sabbath all mankind is to come before God to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - Is 66:23

and no command to "Not take God's name in vain" in NT

Week to week, yes. For all eternity, every day, of every week, of every month, of every year, of every decade, of every century, of every millennia--we shall be worshiping God in the good and future world.

Not resting every seven days for all eternity.

Try again.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesse Dornfeld · Oct 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
Everyone has free will.

The question put to me was "why do you not keep oral tradition" - I am pointing to divisions in the Law that are admitted by both sides of this topic.. even Paul in 1 Cor 7:19

The question put to me was not "Why do MJ's do this or that"

do you realize how divisive you are being in this thread, or no?

ViaCrucis · Oct 17, 2020

imge said:
Does God need to repeat Himself? The ONLY scripture in the entire Bible written by the hand of God is no longer applicable?

I don't worship stone tablets, but Jesus Christ the Word made flesh.

Do you know of a place where God commands Christians to rest on the seventh day? If you do, by all means provide the Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

BobRyan · Oct 17, 2020

True Counterphobia said:
Do you keep the Torah? Or the Oral traditions of the Oral Torah that was taught at Jesus time?

1. Sola scriptura - Acts 17:11 and Mark 7:6-13 make that clear.
2. Hebrews 10 is very clear that the sacrifices and offerings of ceremonial laws end at the cross

These are bible details so obvious that both sides of the Sabbath issue affirm them.

And of course the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 affirms that the Law is divided into sections such as the moral law (that includes all TEN of the ten commandments) and the ceremonial law and the civil law etc.

So also does the "Westminster Confession of faith" also affirm this detail so it is not like "only people who keep the 7th day know about this"

Which is why my signature has this...

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism. :groupray:

And of course 7th day groups

True Counterphobia said:
do you realize how divisive you are being in this thread, or no?

Divisive by doing what?

Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

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