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What evidence from Scripture do you have that explicitly proves they did.What evidence do you have that suggests otherwise?
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What evidence from Scripture do you have that explicitly proves they did.What evidence do you have that suggests otherwise?
I largely agree.
It wouldn't necessarily entail rejection of taking a day of rest but that Christ is the true sabbath.
What evidence do you have that suggests otherwise?
Scripture doesn't say anything one way or the other, but every church established by the Apostles is liturgical and every one of those churches worships primarily on Sunday. From India and Armenia to Africa and England, all are consistent on Sunday and liturgy.What evidence from Scripture do you have that explicitly proves they did.
Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang (depend) all the law and the prophets.
Hang my friends, not do away or replace.
Yet all churches established by the Apostles worship liturgically and all worship primarily on Sunday. It doesn't matter whether the church is in India where the Apostle Thomas preached, Greece where Paul preached or England or Ethiopia etc. this is what history demonstrates.Hi prodromos,
As I stated elsewhere on this thread, there are only 8 references to the first day of the week in the New Testament. Six of these are historical references to the resurrection. That leaves only two texts to discover the possibility of the apostles somehow honoring the first day of the week.
God bless!
But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
When statements like venerated titles appear confusion sets in.
One is our venerated Holy Father not seen .We are to call no human on earth venerable master. . infallible teacher.
Sabbath means rest .It is not a time senititive word in any way shape or form.
From my experience the moment a person changes the meaning of a word that has no time element into one that does have a time element things go astray and men begin worshiping the the shadow of the continue rest we do have when and if we do hear his word and do not harden our heats the 24 -7 sabbath called "today" (under the sun) .
They are those who do mix the faith of Christ not seen with the temporal things seen. They hear the gospel of rest while those who do not mix the faith of Christ that does work in those yoked with Christ. they do not hear the gospel We who do mix faith do receive the rest making our labor easier.
Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
If we do not harden our hearts as the Spirt works in us, with us. . . we have entered the rest. And not the shadow the ceremonial law. It is God who does make our hearts soft .Not shadows.
By looking at the two rendering of the ten commandments .Its easy to see he has set one aside as a ceremonial law or shadow of the true rest(Hebrew 4)
He does not use parables reasoning tools when it comes to moral laws .Its not a accident using the two rendering from different time periods as one working together as one.
In one parable he uses the 7th day to signify the rest while in another the reasoning becomes the moving out of his promise to Abraham 400 years later .
The beginning the first day of the Jewish calendar 40 years in the wilderness as delivered from the house of bondage..(no rest) He gave them rest on the weekend . Saturday and Sunday. 1st and last.
The Deuteronomy reasoning parable . (Tied to the moving out of His people.)
Deuteronomy 5: 14-15 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
The Exodus 20 as a reasoning parable the 7th day .(Tied to the creation of this world.)
Exous 20: 10-11 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Again no reasoning parables as re used in respect to moral laws.
I think my question was clear enough. Which of the ten commandments does Jesus say is the greatest commandment?
You know the answer to this.
-CryptoLutheran
Do you go off tradition of man or what God's commandment and what Jesus and the Bible teaches?Scripture doesn't say anything one way or the other, but every church established by the Apostles is liturgical and every one of those churches worships primarily on Sunday. From India and Armenia to Africa and England, all are consistent on Sunday and liturgy.
Do you go off tradition of man or what God's commandment and what Jesus and the Bible teaches?
Sunday in the Bible | Sabbath Truth
How The Sabbath Was Changed | Sabbath Truth
Happy Sabbath!
God does not change his commandments but he does define them . The fourth is a shadow of the eternal rest used in ceremonies as sign or show to the unbelieving world . Its why he uses two different reasons in the two rendering (Exodus and Deuteronomy) One in respect to the last day the other the moving out of the house of bondage (no rest) His promise to Abraham .The first day of the new calendar.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Parables or figures used as reasoning laws are not used with moral laws. The shadows a have a different use. . preach the good news. .
We still keep them by guarding them with all our new heart soul and mind . But as carnal laws they can never make those perfect or complete . When Jesus came and the veil was rent. . . our source of eternal rest was revealed .
Hebrew 9:9-10 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
The Sabbath is of the Decalogue. That which was of Stone is now in the heart, mind and mouth through Christ and His Spirit. This is prophesied in the New Covenant. The Sabbaths which are mentioned in Colossians is not the Sabbath of the Decalogue. But that which is of the handwriting to the ordinances. Not the ordinances themselves but the handwriting to them. Please follow alongAll the Law and all the prophets; the Great Commandment is the heart of God's moral law. The Christian is not obligated to observe sabbaths, new moons, food laws, make sacrifices, we are not forbidden from wearing mixed fabrics, nor are we made ritually unclean by eating certain things, touching certain things. No, for the Christian is the Great Command: Love God and love our neighbor. To this Christ commands we love our enemy, as our enemy is included in our neighbor; Christ commands not that we take an eye for an eye, but that we turn the other cheek repaying no one evil for evil; if our cloak is demanded, we give our shirt as well; if we are demanded to walk a mile, we walk two miles, we are to give generously expecting nothing in return. This is the Law and Command of Jesus Christ. Not sabbaths, not new moons, etc.
So says the Catholic Church, those who persecuted God's children for hundreds of years. Their heresy preserved through documents "they thought" worthy of preservation. But I guess this is not a bad thing entirely.Scripture doesn't say anything one way or the other, but every church established by the Apostles is liturgical and every one of those churches worships primarily on Sunday. From India and Armenia to Africa and England, all are consistent on Sunday and liturgy.
Hi my friend may you and yours have happy and peaceful Sabbath........
Let's take a look at Hebrews 4 (NIV):
1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,This "Sabbath-rest" is explicitly tied to "the seventh day" and resting from our works, "just as God did from His." This seventh day is not generic, but specific as it is tied to "the creation of the world." The "Sabbath-rest" that remains "for the people of God" is the "seventh day" Sabbath.
“So I declared on oath in my anger,And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
do not harden your hearts.”
This reasoning makes the biblical account of the manna nonsensical. Do you believe that the manna in the wilderness fell for six days of the week and then there was none on the seventh day Sabbath? Or, is it your contention that manna fell for five days of the week and then there was none on the Seventh and the first day? That's what you seem to be saying above.
But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
1. Sabbath as a Memorial
Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
One of the reasons Jesus gives for regularly observing His Sabbath is in reference to the singular monumental event in this world's history—its creation. The Sabbath is a weekly reminder that Jesus created this Earth (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-17). It is a day to rest from our works just as Jesus rested from His (Hebrews 4:7-10). It is to this very fact of being the Creator that Jesus appeals to over and over in the Scriptures as validation for His claim to being the one and only true God (c.f. 1 Chronicles 16:23-27; 2 Kings 19:15; 2 Chronicles 2:12; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 33:6; 96:5; 102:25-27; 115:15; 121:2; Isaiah 37:16; 40:20; 45:18; Jeremiah 10:12; 27:5; 32:17; 33:2, 3; 51:15; Jonah 1:9; Job 26:7; Acts 4:24; 14:15; 17:24; Revelation 14:7).
Psalm 111:2-4
Great are the works of the LORD; they are pondered by all who delight in them. Glorious and majestic are his deeds, and his righteousness endures forever. He has caused his wonders to be remembered; the LORD is gracious and compassionate.
If Jesus says to "Remember the Sabbath," and this remembering is directly connected to the "wonders" of His creation, why is it that people find this something they wish to forget? If one were to develop a hierarchy of the most important events in human history would not the act of creation rank toward the very top? Aside from the life, death and resurrection of the Creator, what other event do you suppose would be more worthy of remembering? Interestingly, even though Jesus nor His disciples ever hinted at any regularly repeating recognition for His resurrection, there are some who insist that we honor Sunday as a resurrection memorial. So while we have no divine command for a weekly remembering of the resurrection (making it a tradition of men), we likewise have no command overturning the weekly remembering of the creation. About this Jesus asks, "Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"
2. A Day for Our Benefit
Isaiah 58:13-14
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” The mouth of the LORD has spoken.
Through His prophet Isaiah, Jesus portrays His holy day as something to delight in. If Jesus says to delight in His Sabbath I'm certain that there must be a blessing to be obtained by observing the day He blessed.
Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (444 anthropos; human being), not man for the Sabbath.
Not only is the Sabbath affirmed as something to "delight" in, but Jesus Himself takes the opportunity to make it clear that when He made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation it was made for the benefit of all humanity. The word for man in this text is "anthropos" which means people. Thus the Sabbath is for men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slaves and those who are free. All humanity can delight in the benefits of having a day off to remember their Creator and to rest from their own works.
3. Jesus Kept the Sabbath
Luke 4:16
[Jesus] went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read.
It was Jesus's regular practice to assemble together with other believers on the Sabbath day. Leviticus 23:3 says that the Sabbath is "a day of sacred assembly." You can certainly worship God on all days of the week, but the Sabbath is the day Jesus set aside for worshipping with other believers in a corporate setting. It is a day set apart—a "holy day"—on which holy people are to rest from their own works and be blessed on the day that Jesus blessed.
1 Peter 2:21
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
Jesus is our example in all things and following the things He did should not give anyone cause for concern. On the contrary, it is in doing those things which Jesus never did and never told us to do which we should seriously question the safety of such position. Keeping the Sabbath is in keeping with following Jesus's steps.
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.
Again, if we are to "walk as Jesus did" it is a simple thing to ascertain that the example He left was to regularly assemble together with believers on the day He personally blessed and continues to make holy.
4. Disciples Kept the Sabbath After the Cross
Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
Because Jesus never intended to put an end to the regular seven day cycle He set in motion for humanity's (anthropos) benefit and "delight," Jesus never informed them that it was no longer necessary to observe the Sabbath after His death. This is confirmed by the fact that His closest followers—those who went out of their way to see to His burial preparations—still "rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." If Jesus did not intend for the Sabbath to be included in His new covenant then He needed to add this to His will before He died. After the death of the Testator nothing can be added or subtracted from that person's will (see Hebrews 9:16-17).
5. Paul Kept the Sabbath
Acts 17:2, 3
As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,” he said.
After his conversion (recorded in Acts 9) Paul continues his "custom" of going to synagogue on the Sabbath. Not only was this his regular habit but the Bible also records that Paul preached to both Jews and Gentiles on the Sabbath for a year and a half!
Acts 18:4, 11
Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
So, "Every Sabbath" for a "year and a half" Paul reasons in the synagogue with both Jews and Greeks (i.e. Gentiles). That's a biblical record of 76 Sabbaths in which Paul is preaching to Jews and Gentiles.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
As we would expect from an apostle of Christ, Paul acknowledges that he follows "the example of Christ." Paul's actions testify to the fact that "his custom" of Sabbath observance was the same as the custom of Jesus. Paul then goes on to assert that you should not only follow Christ's example but you should also follow his own example. Are you following the examples left for you by both Jesus and Paul?
6. Gentiles Kept the Sabbath
Acts 13:42-45
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.
Some people suggest that Paul was evangelizing to Jews on the Sabbath and what better way to do that then to meet them on the day they all were gathering together? But in this text we see that after witnessing to the Jews in the synagogue that Gentiles begged Paul to preach these words "to them the next Sabbath." So if the Sabbath had ceased as a requirement and blessing of God, if it was not part of the New Covenant, if it was only for the Jew, then Paul need not wait an entire week to minister to the needs of these pleading Gentiles. Why wait seven days when tomorrow would work just fine? After all, as some people believe, the first day of the week is supposedly "the Lord's day"—a day to be honored in remembrance of Jesus's resurrection—so why not preach to them on this newly preferred day? Paul does not take this golden opportunity to inform these Gentiles that the Sabbath is passé and that it is no longer necessary to remember Jesus as the Creator. Instead, as someone who unashamedly "follow the example of Christ," he honors their Sabbath-keeping request.
7. The Sabbath 40 Years After the Cross
Matthew 24:20
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
Jesus is speaking in reference to the future destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. (40 years after His death). If we consider this admonition from the aspect of keeping the Sabbath holy by not working on it, then the prayer to not have to flee on the Sabbath is easily understandable. Additionally, this text also affirms the continuity of the Sabbath 40 years into the New Covenant.
8. Venerated Title Remains
Matthew 28:1
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body.
Luke 23:54
It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
John 19:31
Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
Each of the four Gospels were written years after the cross. One would expect that if the Sabbath was no longer relevant to New Covenant Christianity that the Gospel authors would've conveyed such in their writings. But Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all maintain uninterrupted use of the venerated title of Sabbath in their Gospels. None of them ever refer to it as the "Sabbath of the Jews," which of course makes perfect sense in keeping with point #2 above (i.e. the Sabbath was made for humanity's benefit). Luke points out certain things as being exclusively Jewish ("country of the Jews," "synagogue of the Jews") but in neither his Gospel nor his book of Acts does he do so to the Sabbath. Since Jesus said the Sabbath was made for people—regardless of race or gender—then the fact that these authors do not attempt to tie it strictly to the Jews is perfectly logical and consistent. This is especially meaningful when one considers their use of this title after the cross. Since they are writing years afterward there should be no reason why they should not know that the Sabbath has been discontinued. All four authors continue to address the seventh day of the week using it's venerated title and all of the remaining days of the week maintain their generic numeral designation.
9. The Sabbath in the New Earth
Isaiah 66:22-23
“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD.
When Jesus first created this world we find that He set in motion His weekly memorial to His creative act by establishing His Sabbath (Genesis 2:1-3). In the "restoration of all things" the Lord will create a "new heavens and a new earth." Will the need to remember Jesus as Creator be any less meaningful or necessary once we are redeemed? Will the Sabbath be any less of a blessing or a "delight"? Since the Sabbath was "made for man" before man became a sinner it is apparent that its value was not based in relation to our sinful condition. Isaiah tells us that in the new earth all humanity will bow down before God "from one Sabbath to another." Jesus is going to hit the divine reset button for this Earth. It is going to be baptized by fire. After burning off all the sin and those who stubbornly held on to it, this Earth will be restored to how it was "in the beginning" and it will be our home as it was originally intended. Since the Sabbath comes to us from the seventh day of the beginning, we see that this special day has been a blessing to humanity from our creation to our ultimate salvation and will continue on throughout eternity.
10. The Sabbath in Languages of the World.
Did you know that there are flood traditions around the world? From Africa to Asia and Australia, from Europe to North and South Americas, the story of a world wide flood is a part of the tradition of the peoples in these areas. This is as one would expect for such a universally destructive event.
But did you also know that the word "Sabbath" can be found in various languages all around the world? This too is what one would expect if the Sabbath was instituted on the seventh day of creation. Just like Noah and the other seven survivors were witnesses to the flood, Adam and Eve would've been witnesses of the first Sabbath and Adam was around for 930 years to share his eye witness account to his progeny.
Here are a few languages that use the word Sabbath for the seventh day of the week:
Greek: Sabbaton (Sabbath)
Latin: Sabbatum (Sabbath)
Spanish: Sábado (Sabbath)
Portuguese: Sabbado (Sabbath)
Italian: Sabbato (Sabbath)
French: Samedi (Sabbath day)
High German: Samstag (Sabbath)
Prussian: Sabatico (Sabbath)
Russian: Subbota (Sabbath)
Congo Africa: Sabbado or Kiansbula (Sabbath)
These are a few examples from our modern languages which still identify the seventh day as the Sabbath. There are a number of ancient languages which also do the same thing. The Babylonian language—dating back to 3800 BC (or shortly after the flood)—identifies the seventh day as "Sa-ba-tu" or Sabbath. Exactly what one would expect to find embedded in this Earth's recorded history.
I pray this helps.
But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
Hi, thanks for your post!
I largely agree.
I have a question of sorts more than a criticism. I just want to know what you think of this more than anything. What do you think of the idea that Christ is the true sabbath?
When Christ was confronted with "sayings" and "traditions" of the magesterium of the nation-church of his day -- which was the one true nation church started by God at Sinai , that got off the rails to the point that they contradicted the Bible, He said this.
Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
When confronted with the sayings and traditions of man - ask "What does God's Word say?"
It wouldn't necessarily entail rejection of taking a day of rest but that Christ is the true sabbath.
I say this because of the covenantal shift in what the Law is now that the Messiah has come to earth to establish His kingdom. We are no longer under the sinai Covenant, for example. Further, the Law we are under now is based not on what was the Law under the Sinai Covenant, but what Jesus told us directly and what was REPEATED in the NT for us to follow from the Sinai Covenant. Whatever Laws were not in the Sinai Covenant, then we are not under obligation to follow them and the Sabbath is one of these things.
Except to say Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law,