Why is repentance not in the gospel of John?

BibleBeliever1611 said:

If you look it up, repentance is never mentioned in the gospel of John. If the people who teach "repent of your sins for salvation" were right and you indeed had to repent before you could be saved, then shouldn't it be there? If you think about the fact that the book of John is written for the purpose of getting lost people saved, you would expect that it would be filled with repentance. In fact you would expect that repentance was talked about the most specifically in the book of John. And yet it's not mentioned even once.

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." - John 20:30-31

John 20:30-31 proves that you can have life through the name of Christ without ever even knowing about the concept of repentance. It also proves that you can preach the gospel to the lost without preaching about repentance. If it was wrong to remove repentance from the gospel (as many people teach), then the gospel of John would be "wrong" because it also removed repentance from the gospel. But of course there's nothing wrong with any book of the Bible. It's all inspired by God and it's all perfect.

Click to expand...

If John was the one and only book in the N.T. you might have a point but it is not, you cannot take one book or one verse as a proof text, read the entire Bible then form your Theology.

Jesus does talk about repentance in John, albeit not explicitly.
For example:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever makes a practice of sin is a slave to sin". This obviously asks people to come free from the 'bondage of slavery'.

"...they would not be guilty of sin, but now since they have hated both me and my Father..." Pharisees needed to repent."

disciple Clint said:

If John was the one and only book in the N.T. you might have a point but it is not, you cannot take one book or one verse as a proof text, read the entire Bible then form your Theology.

Click to expand...

Yes this is true. Besides, the whole bible is essentially based around the concept of repentance: need of salvation from sin.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

The point is that you only need the book of John to know how to be saved. You don't need anything else. The book of John alone is sufficient. Otherwise John 20:30-31 would make no sense.

Click to expand...

That's true in theory, but in practice the bible is what helps transform and sanctify us daily, thereby bringing us closer to that ultimate objective of being perfected in Christ through his teachings.

The Holy Spirit is how we develop an intimate connection with God, the bible is how we can understand God better and nurture that spiritual transformation within us. And the will of God is to know us, and for us to know him.

"Not everyone who says Lord, Lord... shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven..."
"Narrow is the way that leads to life... and there are few that find it".
"Because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, i'll vomit you out of my mouth".

Faith is obviously a life-long process. And, of course, if we only needed the gospel of John to be saved these other crucial concepts aforementioned wouldn't be known, neither would a believer have sufficient grounds for their faith. How are we supposed to build a solid foundation without the parables or Pauls teachings on faith/grace for instance? As Jesus puts it "the stream came in... and great was the destruction of that house..." because how are we meant to be doers of the word if we haven't heard or read the word in its fulness?

However, if we know and connect with Jesus, this is true life... and to support your theory, and contradict my own, I'd argue 'abiding in the vine' is sufficient.

So, again in theory John is sufficient for salvation: no, not the book, Jesus who is the Word. But its essential for any believer to read the bible or risk falling away.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

John 20:30-31 proves that you can have life through the name of Christ without ever even knowing about the concept of repentance. It also proves that you can preach the gospel to the lost without preaching about repentance.

Click to expand...

==
I John 1 5-10

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
==

I feel like that he included this in his Epistle; repentance is like a course correction after checking your compass. It's really a reset of orientation towards Christ. If someone decides to do this (never) or only occasionally, I'm not sure they are going to arrive at the desired destination...

A blindfolded man in a dark place suddenly has the blindfold removed, and sees a Light.
"I'm saved!" he says
And he's right.
But if he doesn't become a follower of that Light?
Turns around, turns a corner...
Christ died for us while we were yet sinners
And we are to be followers of Christ
"All that the Father gave to me"
That is not the same thing as to say
That Christ will be followers of Us
After we've met

BibleBeliever1611 said:

repentance is never mentioned in the gospel of John.

Click to expand...

I offer I understand what you are saying.

Each person is different; so how God brings each one to repentance can be different, in relation to the Gospel of John. Here is one possibility, I would say >

Someone can read the Gospel of John, along with already knowing the Law of Moses. The Law already gives plenty to help a person to repent by turning from sinning. But John's Gospel tells us about all the good which God desires for us to turn to, in repenting.

We can have so much good with Jesus . . . so much which we can miss out on because of our sinning.

Repenting is not only turning from sin, but it includes where we need to go to, instead.

So, a correct question could be, "Can there be true repentance without what the Gospel of John is talking about?"

BibleBeliever1611 said:

John 20:30-31 proves that you can have life through the name of Christ without ever even knowing about the concept of repentance.

Click to expand...

In Acts chapter eleven, we can read how certain people criticized Peter for eating with Gentiles. But Peter tells them how God filled the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius with the Holy Spirit > and then >

"When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, 'Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.'" (Acts 11:18)

So, I see this indicates that Christians in general understood repentance to mean changing "to life". And John in his Gospel is making a point, perhaps, of making sure we know where we need to go, in repenting, "that believing you may have life in His name." (in John 20:31)

I now note how John is very clear, how the life He means is "in His name." And so this can help to make us very clear about which life will come with true repentance. And so, indeed John is talking about repentance, though he does not use the word repentance, I now can see.

Ones can repent in some way, at times in their lives, but do they repent to the life which is in the name of Jesus Christ? So, I see now how John is helping to make sure we know where Biblical repentance will take a person . . . to Jesus who is "the life" (John 11:25 and John 14:6) as John has already made clear that Jesus Himself has said.

And our Apostle Paul says >

"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," (Ephesians 2:4-5)

And those people knew that God "granted" "repentance to life". And here Paul is saying that God is the One who has made us "alive". In the process of repentance, then, He has granted us to become alive. And John's Gospel talks about what is involved in becoming alive, and who is involved.

If I tell you to mix brown sugar with butter and vanilla extract, what are we making?

Of course > penuche fudge or frosting! Even if I don't tell you the word for it, you can know from the ingredients.

There are ones who can tell us everything that is wrong with us, and say "repent". But they do not make us clear about where the repenting will take us if it really is of God. They are telling everyone, actually, things which are not actual ingredients of repentance . . . what not to put in the recipe.

But in the Gospel of John, we have ingredients of true repentance.

"'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws Him; and I will raise him up at the last day.'" (John 6:44)

And our Apostle Paul says >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

So, I see . . . and offer . . . from these scriptures, how repenting includes our Father drawing someone to Christ, and being drawn to Jesus includes being "joined to the Lord" so the person is "one spirit with Him."

Also, Jesus says >

"'It is written in the prophets, "And they shall all be taught by God." Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.'" (John 6:45)

So, I consider from this, that the process of repentance includes how our Father personally teaches a person so he or she comes to Jesus.

And in earlier scripture we have >

"He teaches sinners in the way." (in Psalm 25:8)

So, the LORD Himself teaches a person so he or she turns from one's sin to Jesus. And this repenting, then, is not only stopping certain sins. But there is how the person becomes "alive". So, a person needs to see what is wrong, plus needs the good which God desires to share with the person, instead.

So, now that I think more about this, we can see ingredient preaching of repentance in various scriptures, where God strongly confronts what is wrong, but immediately also shares about all the good He desires for us to have instead . . . so encouraging us along with confronting us.

For one example >

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23)

God wants a person to repent of sinning, yes, but repent by turning to God and sharing with Him in His own glory ! ! !

And we can see how God desires for a person to repent of bitterness . . . not only by holding one's mouth closed and refusing to keep a grudge, but by becoming the way God's love has us become and relate in His love >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

So, here again, we see in the message of repentance, the strong confrontation of what is anti-love, but also the beautifully wonderful encouragement of how we can relate, instead, including how we love "even as God" loves in forgiving people. We can so share with God Himself, so we love the way He does in forgiving, and leave behind how bitterness has a person sharing with Satan in his spirit.

With this, I think of how Jesus told our Apostle Paul how he would turn people "from the power of Satan to God," we have in Acts 26:18. So, I see this is talking about ingredients of God's way of repentance > leaving Satan and his love-dead stuff such as bitterness, and being brought "to God" so we are sharing with God Himself, instead.

In Christian repentance, then, a person becomes alive in God's love, so we can forgive "even as God"; and so ones are brought "to God". And so I see this connects with how John in his Gospel says he wants us to have life in the name of Jesus. God makes a sinner alive in love, in changing that person from sin; and this is what repentance includes.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

The point is that you only need the book of John to know how to be saved. You don't need anything else. The book of John alone is sufficient. Otherwise John 20:30-31 would make no sense.

Click to expand...

John was writing to people who were already believers, this is, in part, why he emphasizes the present tense expression of pistueo! But the point is not that it's the only book you need, for John, as with the other NT writers, saw the OT as the scriptures, and repentance is certainly the message there! John did not see his writing as scripture, he was just encouraging the faith of the new believers!

Doug

The Gospel of John is thought to be the last book written even after Rev. The other Gospels were already being copied and moving around the Roman Empire, so John is mostly filling in the caps that the other Gospels did not cover well.
Jesus disciples were baptizing even more then John's disciples, so was that the Christian baptism or the Baptism of repentance?

Jesus basically said, repent or perish in Luke 13:3. We read the Bible as a whole and we do not isolate verses or certain books over the rest of the Bible.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

Why do people who are already saved need to know how to have life through the name of Christ? Don't they already have it?

Click to expand...

John was writing to Hellenistic Christians, most likely from Ephesus, to relay a historical record of the events and teachings of Jesus's life to encourage them to keep their faith in Christ as both Messiah and God in flesh. Remember that the Gnostic heresy is a primary focus of John's writing, and the deity of Christ is an especially strong message in the fourth gospel. These to whom John wrote were in danger of believing and being led astray by the Gnostic gospel and Gnostic version of Jesus Christ.

The text of John 20:31 is generally translated "in order that you may believe", but there are examples of mss that have " in order that you may continue to believe". I think this is more consistent with the message of John's gospel, and why John is so different from the synoptic gospels! The synoptic gospels were written for those who were not believers, but John was, in all of his writings, writing against the Gnostic heresy and was writing that believers would maintain their faith.

Doug

BibleBeliever1611 said:

If you look it up, repentance is never mentioned in the gospel of John. If the people who teach "repent of your sins for salvation" were right and you indeed had to repent before you could be saved, then shouldn't it be there? If you think about the fact that the book of John is written for the purpose of getting lost people saved, you would expect that it would be filled with repentance. In fact you would expect that repentance was talked about the most specifically in the book of John. And yet it's not mentioned even once.

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." - John 20:30-31

John 20:30-31 proves that you can have life through the name of Christ without ever even knowing about the concept of repentance. It also proves that you can preach the gospel to the lost without preaching about repentance. If it was wrong to remove repentance from the gospel (as many people teach), then the gospel of John would be "wrong" because it also removed repentance from the gospel. But of course there's nothing wrong with any book of the Bible. It's all inspired by God and it's all perfect.

Click to expand...

John teaches that we must turn from sin. To do that means a change of heart, contrition for sin and the desire to stop. That change, itself, means repentance.

The John / repent issue is a free grace dispensationalism argument ever working to over-simplify human faith & salvation, and draw strict divisions in the ages. For them, the no repentance observation is at base re: repentance from sins - a message only to Israel - which they are concerned conflicts with "faith alone in Christ" alone as they interpret it. They also work to isolate each document as a stand-alone, self-contained writing (thus no use of "repentance" seems meaningful). Have you seen the isolated booklets containing only GJohn?

- To repent at root means to think differently, to change your mind
- Just because the word "repent" is not used, does not mean the concept is not there
- The signs in John were written to cause us to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God
- Christ & Son of God are titles identifying the absolute authority of Jesus in Heaven & on earth
- To believe Jesus is the Christ is to submit to His absolute authority, whether someone tells the new convert this or not
- To think we can turn to Christ / submit to His authority & continue in sin (lawlessness, unrighteousness, disobedience to God) is an absurdity

One example in John:

NET John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their heart, and turn [to me], and I would heal them."

- seeing & understanding is the prelude to repenting / changing the mind > believe & turn

Peter elaborates on the healing:

NET 1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we may cease from sinning and live for righteousness. By his wounds you were healed.

There are already some good responses in this thread re: turning, and not isolating GJohn from the remainder of the Bible. Thanks for those.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

We don't but the Bible itself isolated the book of John in the passage of John 20:30-31. When it says, "these are written", it's referring to the book of John, not the whole Bible.

Click to expand...

I see repentance in the following passage.


Note: The word “lest” in this case means “for fear that.”

Being reproved of one's sin is repentance and doing the the truth, coming to the light, and having one's deeds been done or worked [i.e. wrought] in God is the fruits of repentance.

“But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” (John 3:21) (NKJV).

The word “reproved” in John 3:20 in the KJB is defined as “correct” according to the dictionary.

So John 3:20-21 is teaching repentance (even though the word “repent“ or “repentance” is not used). So you cannot escape the necessity of repentance as a part of salvation as taught in God's Holy Word.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

We don't but the Bible itself isolated the book of John in the passage of John 20:30-31. When it says, "these are written", it's referring to the book of John, not the whole Bible.

Click to expand...

I would also say that the command to be born again is another way of saying to “repent.”

You must be born again (John 3:7)

Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision, a thing done outwardly in the flesh; But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, and in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

When we circumcise our heart we are changing our heart spiritually and being born again like a new person. When I first sought forgiveness with Jesus Christ, believed that He died for my sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on my behalf for my salvation, and I accepted Him as my Savior, in that moment, I had a change of heart and a renewed sense of mind. I had a peace and love that I had never known before. My heart was changed. I was born again spiritually. Why? Because I repented at that moment towards Jesus. I sought forgiveness with Jesus. I circumcised my heart. That is what it means to “repent.” My forsaking my evil ways later as a part of making good on my seeking forgiveness with Jesus by way of prayer is the “fruits of repentance.”
Remember, John the Baptist said to bring forth fruits WORTHY of repentance. John the Baptist was baptizing men while they were confessing their sins to God.

It's not a coincidence that John 3:20-21 follows the command for us to be born again in John 3:7.