Should a Christian ever support a rebellion or uprising against an evil government?

Aussie Pete said:

Christians that live under corrupt regimes are rarely influential enough to overthrow them. Of course, God is all powerful and bring about regime change with no problem at all. I'm old enough to remember the amazing collapse of the USSR and the end of the Berlin Wall. All it takes is for the church to unite and pray diligently. Ugh. And therein lies the problem....

Derek Prince said that a democratic nation gets the government that it prays for. The church appears to have gone missing in the last decade or so.
12 Timothy 2
1First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone — 2for kings and all those in authority—so that we may lead tranquil and quiet lives in all godliness and dignity.…

"First of all....."

Very few rebellions result in a regime superior to the one it replaces. God asks us to trust Him and to depend on His ability to deal with the wicked.

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that's a good point. Prayers can achieve more, be more effective

Paul said nothing is unlawful but not 'll things are helpfhl. Maybe the question is not so.much whether rebellions are sinful but whether they are effective or not

public hermit said:

I would argue that Romans 13 establishes the qualifications of legitimate government, i.e. promotes the good and restrains evil. If there happens to be a government that, more than less, promotes evil and restrains the good, then it is not legitimate and not ordained by God. Hence, Christians need not submit to illegitimate governments.

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I


Yes. when Jesus said obey he was referring to legitimAte authority

if your husband abuses you, he is not operating in legitimate authority and you should not submit to his abuse. We Rightly would support the wife in fleeing to safety or if she chooses to stay, helping her to assert herself and keep herself strong

if a parent abuses child, they 're not to submit to that because the parent has gone beyond the bounds of legitimAte authority. We rightl, as Christians would support the child getting help to keep them safe

so why would it not be the same with governmenta


Jesus has always Sided with the victims the oppressed

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:

I


Yes. when Jesus said obey he was referring to legitimAte authority

if your husband abuses you, he is not operating in legitimate authority and you should not submit to his abuse. We Rightly would support the wife in fleeing to safety or if she chooses to stay, helping her to assert herself and keep herself strong

if a parent abuses child, they 're not to submit to that because the parent has gone beyond the bounds of legitimAte authority. We rightl, as Christians would support the child getting help to keep them safe

so why would it not be the same with governmenta


Jesus has always Sided with the victims the oppressed

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Jesus did not foment revolution against the oppressive Roman regime. Jesus did not instruct His followers to revolt either. The revolt of the Jews led to destruction, first the temple and, 30 years later, the nation of Israel. Even the Romans were horrified at the slaughter inflicted on the rebellious Jews.

Lord Jesus told His listeners to cooperate with the Romans. He told them to pay taxes and go "the second mile". I wonder if the Centurion would have become a believer if Lord Jesus had advocated revolt. I think not. Revolts generally turn out badly. Who would say that the African nations are models of moderation, integrity, human rights and democratic values? What was the result of the Arab Spring uprisings? What kind of nation is Libya now? Iraq? The good intentions of man often result in making bad situations worse. The Kingdom of God is not of this world and worldly methods are not to be employed in bringing in God's Kingdom.

Sune said:

Hi all, I realise there is unlikely to be a consensus on this, but I was wondering, based on Romans 13, is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government? I've noticed that in some articles people have said that since this told in the time of Nero, a truly corrupt and evil ruler, we should submit even to evil authorities. Whereas others have said that in the case that a government has become completely against the word of God and no longer does good a Christian may do so, but only if there is no other option.

I'm just wondering, because I recall that my church's old pastor once said that we should overthrow evil regimes if they were too corrupt, but perhaps I misheard, or can't remember the context properly.

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Welcome ! We should always ask ourselves "Is it the will of The Father....." Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it very clear that this is the way in which we need to conduct ourselves lest He say "I never knew you ". Be blessed.

When the government does not take care of its people or when innocent people are at risk.

Celticroots said:

When the government does not take care of its people or when innocent people are at risk.

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Would the path be to rise up against the government or to simply help the innocent or oppressed?

Sune said:

Hi all, I realise there is unlikely to be a consensus on this, but I was wondering, based on Romans 13, is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government? I've noticed that in some articles people have said that since this told in the time of Nero, a truly corrupt and evil ruler, we should submit even to evil authorities. Whereas others have said that in the case that a government has become completely against the word of God and no longer does good a Christian may do so, but only if there is no other option.

I'm just wondering, because I recall that my church's old pastor once said that we should overthrow evil regimes if they were too corrupt, but perhaps I misheard, or can't remember the context properly.

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When evil regimes are present, many are oppressed and suffering by what the evil regimes have said and done; you can say that there are many wicked people, what should the righteous consider then? :

1 HEAR my voice, O God, in my complaint; PRESERVE MY LIFE FROM dread of the enemy.
2 HIDE ME FROM the secret plots of the wicked, from the throng of evildoers,
3 who whet their tongues like swords, who aim bitter words like arrows,
4 shooting from ambush at the blameless, shooting at him suddenly and without fear.
5 They hold fast to their evil purpose; they talk of laying snares secretly, thinking, "Who can see them?"
6 They search out injustice, saying, "We have accomplished a diligent search." For the inward mind and heart of a man are deep.

7 BUT GOD SHOOTS HIS ARROW AT them; they are wounded suddenly.
8 They are brought to ruin, WITH THEIR OWN TONGUES turned against them; ALL WHO SEE THEM WILL WAG THEIR HEADS.
9 Then ALL MANKIND FEARS; they TELL WHAT GOD HAS BROUGHT ABOUT and PONDER what he has done.

10 Let the righteous one REJOICE in the LORD and TAKE REFUGE IN HIM! Let all the upright in heart EXULT!-Psalm 64:1-10

Sune said:

Hi all, I realise there is unlikely to be a consensus on this, but I was wondering, based on Romans 13, is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government? I've noticed that in some articles people have said that since this told in the time of Nero, a truly corrupt and evil ruler, we should submit even to evil authorities. Whereas others have said that in the case that a government has become completely against the word of God and no longer does good a Christian may do so, but only if there is no other option.

I'm just wondering, because I recall that my church's old pastor once said that we should overthrow evil regimes if they were too corrupt, but perhaps I misheard, or can't remember the context properly.

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Great question!

I think the issue is that the New testament doesn't talk about the proper use of violence, if any. (Or I haven't found where it does )

Two passages came to mind
Ecclesiastes 3:8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

There is a time for war, but when that time is is a matter of wisdom, imo.

Luke 22:35 He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36 Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

But it's unclear to me if this instruction was temporary or permanent, and when we were to use the weapon that we bought.

♪ and if you want money for people with minds that hate, all I can tell you is buddy you'll have to wait ♪ ...j lennon

What is an evil government? I'd say if it kills and enslaves people, if it does not allow religious expression, if it is working against it's people's interest and sells out the land, then it is evil and the answer is obvious.
There is a famous quote that every ruler is from God. But it does not mean we need to obey every fool that claws up to the high state places. It means that just as we ask our Father in Heaven "bring us not into temptation but deliver us from evil", we should pray that He brings us a good government and not an evil one. Do we do that and how often? So, we find ourselves in evil situation and must act. But in Godly manner.
As an example, one recent event was in Montenegro. Government had introduced a new law about religion (basically anti-christian law). And the Christian people finally got got united, got on the streets, prayed, and the government went down along with that law. It lasted, some got hurt, but they did it. Lord be praised +

Jovajna said:

What is an evil government?

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Realistically any governance that is not the governance of God. But from a worldly viewpoint you come close.

lismore said:

That is what is happening to our brothers and sisters in China. And yet they are sharing the gospel in prisons and seeing a great harvest. Interesting though I have never met a Chinese believer who advocated a Revolution to overthrow the Chinese Govt, wicked as it is. God Bless

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I think one of the reasons why Christians tend to favor fighting evil regimes with guns is the example of the American Revolution. Here the Founding Fathers are held up like saints. The war began as they fought the king of England once that king came for their ammo. They seemed to have a great deal of wisdom and were heavily influenced by the Christian faith, so their example heavily influences Christians today. That is why even today gun rights are held in such high regard in the US.

So was the American Revolution God's will? And is owning a gun a Christian thing to do?

The Solidarity trade union in Poland had a massive Catholic/Christian following and brought down the Communist government in 1989.

Sune said:

based on Romans 13, is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government? I've noticed that in some articles people have said that since this told in the time of Nero, a truly corrupt and evil ruler, we should submit even to evil authorities.

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Christianity has always recognized a difference between a legitimate ruler and a tyrant. There have always been uprisings, sometimes they have been successful but most times they went down in bloody defeat and reprisals.
Paul is not saying to obey a tyrant, if so jews either deserved being put in concentration camps or were simply loyal citizens freely going into gas chambers, and likewise Pol Pot was in the right for murdering half of the population of Cambodia. Paul is simply advising against nihilism and anarchy.

Sune said:

Hi all, I realise there is unlikely to be a consensus on this, but I was wondering, based on Romans 13, is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government? I've noticed that in some articles people have said that since this told in the time of Nero, a truly corrupt and evil ruler, we should submit even to evil authorities. Whereas others have said that in the case that a government has become completely against the word of God and no longer does good a Christian may do so, but only if there is no other option.

I'm just wondering, because I recall that my church's old pastor once said that we should overthrow evil regimes if they were too corrupt, but perhaps I misheard, or can't remember the context properly.

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"Dictators, tyrants, despots, warlords, mafia heads, leaders of street gangs, etc. certainly have authority that they assert, but it is illegitimate because it has not been delegated to them from God. They do not submit to Him or His laws, but instead, act contrary to His Just and Righteous standards." tyranny

Basil the Great said:

I would say definitely in the case of a Hitler, where millions of innocent lives were at risk. As for other scenarios, Jesus did not appear to side with the Jewish rebels of his time, so I am uncertain as to exactly what other cases might be justified. I certainly do not favor the Revolutionary War scenario. That was not all that necessary of a war. I hardly think that taxation without representation is sufficient a cause to go to war. After all, the Jews in 030 A.D. were taxed and they had no representation in Rome, yet Jesus effectively said that the should should pay taxes, when he looked at the coin and saw Caesar on it. I guess that our Rev. War ancestors did not look at the example of Jesus very closely when they took up arms against the British.

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"The “Revolutionary War” and the “Civil War” are not examples of revolution but are examples of legitimateresistance to tyranny. The term, “Revolutionary War”, is a misnomer, meaning it is an incorrect or unsuitable name. It would be more accurate to refer to both of these as “Wars for Independence”.

We know that the Colonists did not attack England nor did they try to overthrow King George whose oppres- sion they could no longer abide. So they declared their independence and separated from him and England. When the king sent British soldiers to attack them, they had every right to defend themselves." tolerating Tyranny Mike Smith

A regime is composed of officials reflecting what people are. More often a corrupt regime is made of corrupt officials coming from corrupt people. Even Hitler is elected by those willing to turn a blind eye on the persecution of the Jews.

In the past 200 years, Chinese have spent more than 100 million human lives in order to overthrow the so-called corrupt regimes. The so-called corrupt regime has never gone away for a single moment. Such a so-called corrupt regime is always there no matter what. Does God want the 100 million die before they have a chance to choose Jesus? I doubt that. The only way a difference can be made is for the gospel to be preached such that a society can be filled with more salt and light. Only then the society with change, so is the regime.

Romans 13:1 (NIV2011)
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.


The Chinese rebelled with a death toll over 100 million in the name of a religion like Taiping (i.e., borrowed from Christianity) and in the name of an ideology such as communism. Any responsible government should be cautious about rebellions behind a religion (such as FLG) or an ideology such as democracy, in order to avoid another 100 mil deaths. Who's fault is that if religions are suppressed in red China?

Sune said:

Hi all, I realise there is unlikely to be a consensus on this, but I was wondering, based on Romans 13, is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government? I've noticed that in some articles people have said that since this told in the time of Nero, a truly corrupt and evil ruler, we should submit even to evil authorities. Whereas others have said that in the case that a government has become completely against the word of God and no longer does good a Christian may do so, but only if there is no other option.

I'm just wondering, because I recall that my church's old pastor once said that we should overthrow evil regimes if they were too corrupt, but perhaps I misheard, or can't remember the context properly.

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God tells us to follow the rules that governs the world, like no speeding, no stealing, pay your bills, etc. As far as voting or trying to change the way the government is run, it is not our concern. We are in the world but not of it. We are the body of Christ. If we were to try to change the government Jesus would have done so when he was on the earth, but he didn't. He did pay the tax because he was living in the world. He was in it, not of it. Trying to change the kings of the world is for the ones who are apart of the world. Jesus is from another kingdom. If we are the body then we are too. The government is Gods concern.

Sune said:

Hi all, I realise there is unlikely to be a consensus on this, but I was wondering, based on Romans 13, is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government? I've noticed that in some articles people have said that since this told in the time of Nero, a truly corrupt and evil ruler, we should submit even to evil authorities. Whereas others have said that in the case that a government has become completely against the word of God and no longer does good a Christian may do so, but only if there is no other option.

I'm just wondering, because I recall that my church's old pastor once said that we should overthrow evil regimes if they were too corrupt, but perhaps I misheard, or can't remember the context properly.

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The best thing we can do is to pray and ask God to forgive the people and government for their sins. Then ask God to do his will. Then ask God, if it's his will, to use us to exact his will; to be his hands and feet. And lastly, whatever God asks use to do, we should always pray for a few things: the Holy Spirit to give us guidance and discernment, that we take up the armor of God, and that we be covered by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Childofgodharrison said:

God tells us to follow the rules that governs the world, like no speeding, no stealing, pay your bills, etc. As far as voting or trying to change the way the government is run, it is not our concern.

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If voting or changing government was no concern of Christians, British member of parliament William Wilberforce, and his countless supporters, would never have achieved the abolition the slave trade in 1807. And America would undoubtedly still be enslaving its black population.

We are in the world but not of it. We are the body of Christ. If we were to try to change the government Jesus would have done so when he was on the earth, but he didn't.

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It is complete nonsense to claim that if Jesus wanted something he would have done it when he was on earth. No wonder Christians abdicate responsibility when they believe stuff like this.
Psalm115v16The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’s; But the earth He has given to the children of men.
Have you never read this scripture, and do you understand what it means? If Christians abdicate their involvement in either voting or active politics itself, the governments of earth are left entirely in the control of Satan!!!!
Matt5v13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
Your false theology creates a church with absolutely no earthly purifying or preserving quality, a salt that has entirely devoid of savour. Fit only to be trampled underfoot, just like most of the church today.

He did pay the tax because he was living in the world. He was in it, not of it. Trying to change the kings of the world is for the ones who are apart of the world. Jesus is from another kingdom. If we are the body then we are too.

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How can we be salt and light if we abdicate involvement in the world around us?
Matt5v14“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Being salt and light in secret is not enough.We are called to be salt and light in the world, shining brightly so that people can see. By actively taking his faith into politics, Godly men like Wilberforce become a much magnified salt and light that changed a whole nation..

The government is Gods concern.

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Of course government is God's concern, and that's why he sends godly men into governments to change things and stop Satan ruling over the nations.