Is forced vaccination related to the mark of the beast?

The Righterzpen

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Also, if you can't be bothered to spend 100 words introducing why you think a youtube clip is even credible - then I'm not wasting my time clicking on it.

I know it's credible because I was there.

But; thank you for proving my point about your own bias again!
 
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eclipsenow

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I know it's credible because I was there.
What are we even talking about? What is the 'it' that you think you've proved that opens up the floodgates of your mind to suddenly accepting any alternative-reality conspiracy theory that comes your way?

But; thank you for providing my point about you own bias again!
The (sad) fact that you respond like this and absolutely cannot stay on topic just proves my point again and again and again. It really is sad.

It's like you're trying to use emotional blackmail to make me run off topic and watch heaps of videos about something 17 years ago that has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing now - the source of the virus that sparked this Opening Post!

I'm sorry if you cannot comprehend that - I really am - but that's entirely your problem, not mine.
 
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The Righterzpen

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What are we even talking about? What is the 'it' that you think you've proved that opens up the floodgates of your mind to suddenly accepting any alternative-reality conspiracy theory that comes your way?


The (sad) fact that you respond like this and absolutely cannot stay on topic just proves my point again and again and again. It really is sad.

It's like you're trying to use emotional blackmail to make me run off topic and watch heaps of videos about something 17 years ago that has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing now - the source of the virus that sparked this Opening Post!

I'm sorry if you cannot comprehend that - I really am - but that's entirely your problem, not mine.

LOL - I told you that I began to question what was being told to us over the news from my experience from Desert Storm. You wanted to know why people believe "conspiracy theories".

I told you that you'd deny that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and you did not fail to disappoint me on the display of your own bias; by not even looking at video footage taken by American soldiers during the war that proved WMD existed. Not only did the footage prove they existed; it proves they actually got some of the weapons from the US.

So that experience caused me to begin to question everything the news tells us.

But again; you have my permission to stick to your own biases.
 
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eclipsenow

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LOL - I told you that I began to question what was being told to us over the news from my experience from Desert Storm. You wanted to know why people believe "conspiracy theories".
Yes - but not all conspiracy theories and not getting side tracked into justifying a 17 year old war that we now know was illegal and unjustified. BTW - this is also a bit personal for myself because I served in the Australian army and don't really want to admit how fooled I was by the WMD hype my government pushed on the Australian people. Our former PM John Howard has since admitted he was wrong and had misled the Australian public. All the while the UN weapons inspectors were insisting they had cleared the stuff out - and I was having a debate with my best man that we SHOULD go into Iraq (as I hated what Saddam had done to his people.) But my best man was right. There were no WMD's and no credible source found them during or after the war - and I was wrong.

I would so love to have been right!

But those disease vectors you're studiously avoiding as we continue to talk off topic about your favourite hobby horse?
 
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The Righterzpen

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Yes - but not all conspiracy theories and not getting side tracked into justifying a 17 year old war that we now know was illegal and unjustified.

Um.... Desert Storm was in 1991. That was 29 years ago, not 17 years ago. You're comparing WMD from the wrong war dude. (Do you confuse WWI and WWII too? One started in 1914 and the other in 1939 - Now which one was which?)

I already told you there weren't any post 9/11 because we blew them up in Desert Storm. (Actually there weren't many left. There were some residual chemical weapons found; but nothing like was destroyed in Desert Storm.)

But, it's OK; it really is. You can continue on with your own biases!
 
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The Righterzpen

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But those disease vectors you're studiously avoiding as we continue to talk off topic about your favourite hobby horse?

But this isn't actually "off topic" because when the truth comes out about history; it sets the ground work of: "Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you read."

If they lied in the past; (which they now admit) what makes you think they are not lying now?

The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)

P.S. the article linked here was written by the NY Times.
 
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eclipsenow

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Um.... Desert Storm was in 1991. That was 29 years ago
Yes - I wondered why you raised serving in Desert Storm when the main denial of WMD's kicks in for the second Gulf War - please tell me you knew that's what I was responding to the whole time? After your first long post to me I already admitted that the media 'sanitise' the news about wars - because if the public knew what actually happened - politicians probably wouldn't be allowed to start them!

So they'll get embedded journalists to film all the "Kablamo" and "Shock and Awe" moments. But as to what you saw way back in the FIRST GULF WAR - it's entirely irrelevant to the WMD's I've been discussing this whole time. I thought the links you put up were footage of WMD's found during the Second Gulf War - and explicitly told you to verify when the footage came from because I wasn't buying it!

Yes - there's a huge difference between the First and Second Gulf Wars. One had WMD's - the other didn't. D'uh! It seems we have been talking at cross purposes the whole time. Didn't you wonder why I kept asking you to verify the dates of any WMD footage? Wasn't it absolutely obvious to a blind monk isolated in desert cave that Iraq had chemical weapons leading up to the First Gulf War and Saddam used them on rebels frequently? And I'm not surprised that you assert some of the stuff came from Uncle Sam - America's always training up terrorist groups that then turn against America. I guess it just depends on what you're asserting America actually created - but again - that's 30 years ago and we're talking about today's pandemic! I don't have time to follow you down a personal history of all your Desert Storm activities - it's absolutely annoying and wasting my time when we should be talking about today's pandemic - the OP!
I'm actually beginning to wonder what I've accidentally stumbled into with you - as your longer opening salvo all about your personal baggage from Desert Storm should have warned me I was going to waste the next few days talking about everything BUT the pandemic. You want me to follow you down your personal history of internet rabbit holes. Sorry lady - ain't gonna happen!

Sadly, Desert Storm seems to have overly troubled you and sent you down the Youtube paranoia algorithm. The New York Times has a great series on this called "Down the Rabbit hole." I suggest you listen to it. Rabbit Hole

But now let's get back on topic.


Several months ago, there was speculation that SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, was created in a Chinese bioweapons laboratory. It's not true, but the conspiracy theory has gained renewed interest following a paper by a Hong Kong scientist who claims that, indeed, the virus is man-made.

This conspiracy theory is particularly tempting for several reasons. First, China is a secretive, authoritarian country, and it wouldn't really be much of a surprise if the government had a bioweapons program. Second, China has suppressed research on the origins of the coronavirus. Third, SARS-CoV-2 is really weird for a respiratory virus, since it has the ability to spread throughout the body and damage other organs. Combined, many people see a conspiracy.

But circumstantial evidence doesn't make it true. Either the coronavirus naturally worked its way into the human population or, if a Chinese laboratory really was involved, the virus was probably being studied by researchers and accidentally infected one of them. (This would explain why China wants to cover up the origin of the virus; if it escaped from a lab, Chinese scientists would look incompetent.) There is simply insufficient reason to believe that malicious forces were at play. An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence, and the "man-made virus" theory fails that test.

Genetics Shows Why the Coronavirus Evolved and Was Not Man-Made

In March, a team of scientists published genome sequence data from SARS-CoV-2 in the highly reputable journal Nature Medicine. The main argument for why the virus was not man-made is that the spike protein (which binds to a human cell receptor called ACE2) was shown to be non-ideal for binding to the receptor. While it does bind tightly, computer simulations suggest that other sequences would be better for binding. This is evidence against the virus being man-made because, presumably, a bioengineer would have chosen a different spike protein gene sequence.

Red Flags in the New Pre-Print Paper

A new pre-print paper (which means it has not yet been peer reviewed or published in a journal) claims that SARS-CoV-2 was genetically engineered. It provides both data and reasoning that sound plausible. (The technical aspects go beyond the scope of this article.) The gist of the paper is that the authors believe the genome displays "suspicious" sequences that suggest manipulation.

There are problems with that argument. The most straightforward explanation for the "suspicious" genetic traits is natural recombination with other coronaviruses. Just like influenza, if two different coronaviruses infect the same animal (or human) at the same time, the gene sequences can be swapped. As a result, a new virus pops out that has a completely unique gene sequence. Then, like everything else, the virus undergoes natural selection. If the gene sequence helps the virus spread, then the virus will be selected through evolutionary forces. A July 2020 paper in Science makes precisely that argument.

Another major problem with the pre-print paper is that the authors come out of the gate throwing punches, alleging censorship by scientific journals and accusing those who disagree with them of having a conflict of interest. This is not how serious scientists behave in the literature. Unless there is overwhelming reason to believe otherwise, the assumption is always that another team of scientists acted in good faith but drew the wrong conclusion.

Finally, as others have pointed out, the pre-print authors are part of an organization called the Rule of Law Society, which is not a scientific organization. It also is associated with some rather unsavory characters. That doesn't automatically mean the authors are wrong, but it raises enough doubts about their credibility. The Society's stated mission is, "To expose corruption, obstruction, illegality, brutality, false imprisonment, excessive sentencing, harassment, and inhumanity pervasive in the political, legal, business and financial systems of China." That's fine, but we probably shouldn't trust an organization like this to perform objective scientific analysis.

The Trouble with Pre-Print Papers

In a fast moving world, the scientific method drags along at a snail's pace. To keep up with the changing times, many scientists are now posting papers online without any peer review. The upside is that this allows the quick dissemination of vital information during a time like now (i.e., the COVID pandemic). The downside is that it allows a lot of garbage to make international headlines, throwing us off into a wild goose chase.


COVID: No, Coronavirus Wasn't Created in a Laboratory. Genetics Shows Why.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Yes - I wondered why you raised serving in Desert Storm when the main denial of WMD's kicks in for the second Gulf War - please tell me you knew that's what I was responding to the whole time?

Ehhh..... the denial started with Desert Storm. Why do you think it took 15 years before the VA would service connect anyone for "Gulf War Syndrome"? Yet now that it's undeniable that we were exposed to chemical and biological weapons.....

House Report 105-388 - GULF WAR VETERANS' ILLNESSES: VA, DOD CONTINUE TO RESIST STRONG EVIDENCE LINKING TOXIC CAUSES TO CHRONIC HEALTH EFFECTS

But you still have my blessings to continue on with your biases.

(Observing your lack of answering that if they lied then (which is proven years later); what ever makes you think they are telling the truth now?)

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:4

(Who's really the "conspiracy theorist" here?)

^_^^_^^_^

I'm actually beginning to wonder what I've accidentally stumbled into with you - as your longer opening salvo all about your personal baggage from Desert Storm should have warned me I was going to waste the next few days talking about everything BUT the pandemic. You want me to follow you down your personal history of internet rabbit holes. Sorry lady - ain't gonna happen!

What a compassionate Christian attitude to human suffering you posses (particularly toward veterans here)! Yet you're "oh so concerned" about the Christian doctors trying to find cures to Covid; that you claim I've insulted by raising the question of biological warfare; related to releasing a pandemic upon the entire human race?

Speaking of "off topic"; I hadn't even mention those who have genuine intentions to help people.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Proverbs 26:5

Butt: Now that you've embarrassed yourself from your own lack of observation and seeing how you can't even be respectful enough to get the facts strait; I'm done here.

You're wasting MY time.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I'm new here so I'm coming into this thread very late and I have not read many of the posts yet.

But, I wanted to point something out about the mark of the beast that I think not many people pay close attention to. Forgive me if someone already pointed this out.

First, let me point out something about the beast itself:

Rev 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

This indicates that all people whose names are not written in the book of life, without exception, will worship the beast.

Now, let's see what it says about the scope of those who have the mark of the beast:

Rev 13:5 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Notice that again John does not allow for any exceptions in terms of who receives the mark of the beast. Besides those whose names are written in the book of life, anyway. It only follows that all those who worship the beast (which is all whose names are not in the book of life) also receive the mark of the beast.

So, with that in mind, I don't believe it makes sense to think it could be a vaccine, chip implant or anything like that since not all whose names are not written in the book of life would get a vaccine or chip implant.

I believe the mark of the beast should be seen as being the opposite of the seal of God, which is a spiritual seal applied by the Holy Spirit.
 
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The Righterzpen

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I believe the mark of the beast should be seen as being the opposite of the seal of God, which is a spiritual seal applied by the Holy Spirit.

I would agree that you are correct here; even if the details (regarding the kingdom of satan) aren't well understood by most.
 
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eclipsenow

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Ehhh..... the denial started with Desert Storm. Why do you think it took 15 years before the VA would service connect anyone for "Gulf War Syndrome"? Yet now that it's undeniable that we were exposed to chemical and biological weapons.....

House Report 105-388 - GULF WAR VETERANS' ILLNESSES: VA, DOD CONTINUE TO RESIST STRONG EVIDENCE LINKING TOXIC CAUSES TO CHRONIC HEALTH EFFECTS

But you still have my blessings to continue on with your biases.
I've asked you about a dozen times to discuss the topic - but it's always your personal obsession.
It's just so utterly irrelevant - you're on the verge of becoming an internet troll.
Do listen to the NYT "Rabbit Hole" podcast - it might help you.

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:4
(Who's really the "conspiracy theorist" here?)
^_^^_^^_^

Wow - I really do hope you listen to "Rabbit Hole".
 
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The Righterzpen

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It's just so utterly irrelevant - you're on the verge of becoming an internet troll.

Hmmm - won't admit they lied in the past; wants to believe they aren't lying now! (And I'm on the verge of "becoming an internet troll"???)

LOL - Have a nice day.
 
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eclipsenow

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I'm new here so I'm coming into this thread very late and I have not read many of the posts yet.

But, I wanted to point something out about the mark of the beast that I think not many people pay close attention to. Forgive me if someone already pointed this out.

First, let me point out something about the beast itself:

Rev 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

This indicates that all people whose names are not written in the book of life, without exception, will worship the beast.

Now, let's see what it says about the scope of those who have the mark of the beast:

Rev 13:5 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Notice that again John does not allow for any exceptions in terms of who receives the mark of the beast. Besides those whose names are written in the book of life, anyway. It only follows that all those who worship the beast (which is all whose names are not in the book of life) also receive the mark of the beast.

So, with that in mind, I don't believe it makes sense to think it could be a vaccine, chip implant or anything like that since not all whose names are not written in the book of life would get a vaccine or chip implant.

I believe the mark of the beast should be seen as being the opposite of the seal of God, which is a spiritual seal applied by the Holy Spirit.
Please note how it speaks in past tense. A personal friend wrote this article - I like it!

John writes that “many antichrists have come”, reminding us that there has been great opposition to Christ ever since he was born (remember how Herod killed all the babies in Bethlehem trying to get to Jesus?). Throughout the whole Bible, we find characters who are ‘anti’ God’s plans—wicked men, foreign kings, false prophets and ‘the beast’ who features in Revelation 13. Even in Deuteronomy, there are warnings about the rise of prophets who lie and preach rebellion against the true God.
But is there going to be one mega-evil ruler who will deceive the world and lead millions astray and do things like brand ‘666’ on their foreheads?
Probably not. There are passages in the Bible which talk about a particular being who is Christ’s foe (e.g., “the man of lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians 2 or the dragon of Revelation 12-13 who is identified as the Devil). But this kind of symbolic language is used to describe an attitude or spirit of evil rather than a single evil person. The fact that some parts of Scripture bring ultimate evil to a head by using an individual character to identify it probably says more about how dramatic literature operates than it does about predicting history.
The worst thing about antichrists is that they have come from within the church! The apostle John wrote that they “went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”. This is what antichrists do. They get among believers and try to deceive them, persuading them to believe lies and getting people to follow them and their deceptions rather than Jesus and his truth. They teach that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 Jn 4:1-3); they say it doesn’t matter whether you sin or not (1 Jn 1:5-10); and they neglect their Christian brothers and sisters (1 Jn 4:19-21).

According to God’s word, the antichrist might have sat next to you in the church pew. This isn’t a scene from a horror movie; quite the opposite-it is an everyday event. In this final age before Jesus returns, plenty of opponents of Jesus will arise. And they may even be in church, trying to deceive us and lead us into error. But Christians can be confident and at peace, because there will be a day when all ‘antichristness’ will be done away with.

It’s a bit of a waste of time trying to work out whether the antichrist is Boris Yeltsin, the Dalai Lama, Bill Gates or the Pope. It’s just as likely to be your granny or your next door neighbour, if they are promoting lies about our Lord.

Just make sure it isn’t you …

See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. (1 John 2:24-25)
The devil you know
 
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The Righterzpen

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I am thinking the mark may be the all seeing eye symbol, since the beast claims to be God.

Interesting observation (and I believe your point about the "all seeing eye" and the beast wanting be be seen as God is valid); even though I don't see that symbol itself as "the mark" as applied to people's hands or foreheads.

But you are correct; that symbol is everywhere and I believe it is also correct that symbol predates written history. (I'd have to look that up though.)
 
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The online fake news group that published the fake Hunter Biden "Ukrainian secret deals" is the same group pushing the myth that Covid 19 has been weaponised by the Chinese military.

Through a plethora of media channels, spot rallies, flyer and email spam campaigns, the movement has been instrumental in pushing out Mr Guo's conspiracy theories and misinformation.

However, his controversial tactics and role in spruiking a number of dangerous conspiracy theories has made critics question his real motives.

Mr Guo's company GTV Media Group is reportedly being investigated by the FBI and the Securities Exchange Commission.

His media partner, Mr Bannon, was arrested in August by US federal agents on fraud charges while on Mr Guo's yacht....

...One of the group's most successful campaigns popularised discredited claims by a virologist who said COVID-19 was deliberately manufactured in a Chinese lab.

After John left a conspiracy-sharing group, the billionaire founder told followers he 'deserved to die'
 
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