George Antonios
Active Member
Since it was prophesied in the OT proves that it was revealed in the OT. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been prophesied in the OT.
Was the church prophesied in the Old Testament do you say?
Upvote
0
Since it was prophesied in the OT proves that it was revealed in the OT. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been prophesied in the OT.
It seems you must think I believe that everything in the NT was prophesied in the OT. But I never said any such thing.Was the church prophesied in the Old Testament do you say?
Fine, let's pivot to what you concede: "they could see was the Messiah being "cut off" or crucified" but Peter tells you they didn't understand that.FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Since it was prophesied in the OT proves that it was revealed in the OT. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been prophesied in the OT.
It seems you must think I believe that everything in the NT was prophesied in the OT. But I never said any such thing.
The answer to your question is no, of course not. The Church was a mystery to the OT. No prophet could see it. All they could see was the Messiah being "cut off" or crucified, and then coming in power for the Millennium.
They weren't the brightest bulbs. But others did understand that.Fine, let's pivot to what you concede: "they could see was the Messiah being "cut off" or crucified" but Peter tells you they didn't understand that.
The answer to your question is no, of course not. The Church was a mystery to the OT. No prophet could see it.
Fine, let's pivot to what you concede: "they could see was the Messiah being "cut off" or crucified" but Peter tells you they didn't understand that.
Please quote where the Church was written about in the OT.Of course the church was prophesied in the OT...
just because that information was "sealed" to OT Saints does not
mean it was not written.
They weren't the brightest bulbs. But others did understand that.
Luke 2-
28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:
29“Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you may now dismiss your servant in peace.
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel.”
36 There was also a prophet, Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,
37 and then was a widow until she was eighty-four. She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying.
38 Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.
Exactly, there were MANY prophecies about the Christian Kingdom
that remained "sealed" in the Jewish Kingdom.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I,
O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And
he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up
and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
.
I've already pointed out what Caiaphas the High Priest said about Jesus. He was mocking what Jesus was claiming.Where do you see Simeon and Anna understanding and looking forward to that child dying an atoning sacrificial death for them in the text?
They looked for the Messiah, sure. All did. Looking for him to die in their stead is an entirely different ball game.
I've already pointed out what Caiaphas the High Priest said about Jesus. He was mocking what Jesus was claiming.
And I've pointed out what Paul preached, which came from the "Scriptures", that being the OT.
Please explain how a person went to heaven before the cross.
Confusion here.
A) that passage is about the tribulation
B) the prophets were not "wicked"
Isa 53 isn't a mystery. Even the Ethiopian eunuch understood that there was a death.Paul was revealing things that he himself told us were previously a mystery until he revealed them:
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
John 11:49 - Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”I didn't get your point about Caiaphas.
Aren't you aware that none of these verses say how to be saved??As for before the cross, Moses, Christ, and Paul, all told us how:
Moses:
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
Quoted by Paul:
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
And Paul is careful to add:
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: BUT, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
And here's the Lord:
Discerning scholars realize that Jesus wasn't telling him how to be saved, but what his real problem was. The man thought he was keeping the whole law, and Jesus pointed out his error.Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
You need to read Romans 2 - 4.Salvation by grace through faith without the works of the law is a New Testament doctrine only valid during the church age, which is why Paul says:
Rom_3:21 But NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
There it is again: he says it was witnessed in the O.T. but it wasn't yet the case back then.
Please quote where the Church was written about in the OT.
Though he was prophesying about end times, he had no idea about the church age and Gentile involvement. You are only kidding yourself.(1) Act 2:16
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out
of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men
shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Though he was prophesying about end times, he had no idea
about the church age and Gentile involvement.
You can't even discern what "Christian" means. In your fantasies, there are unsaved Christians. You have no credibility.
Referring to future people does not equate to NAMING the "Church age". Quit fooling yourself.You asked for examples of Old Testament prophecies
of the New Testament Church Age... I gave you twelve (12).
How about actually reading what I posted. I said, referring to OT prophets, "he had NO IDEA about the church age and Gentile involvement". Isn't that clear enough?Now you say the OT prophets had to understand the church
age....
Your comments are hilarious. When Peter evangelized the Roman Centurian and his family and close friends, this is how how the Jewish believers responded:notice they mention the GENTILES in the Kingdom.
Your efforts to save face are hilarious.
This prophesy doesn't mention the Church age. No one would have read this and understood that there would be a "Christian church". Please stop kidding yourself.(1) Act 2:16
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out
of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men
shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Your "warnings" are rather childish. It would be good for you to realize that and cease. It doesn't help your credibility, which is already at a real low.I warned you several times to NOT ASSUME that Biblical Truth
is LIMITED to what YOU understand... it is not.
Except we don't find YOUR OPINION in brackets in the text.(2) Dan 2:33
His legs of iron [the church age],
his feet part of iron and part of clay.[the Great Tribulation age]
And again, we don't find YOUR OPINION in brackets in the text.Notice the images head was of gold [representing the pre-fall age]
the chest was of silver [representing the post-fall kingdom before
the flood] the belly was of brass [representing the Jewish Kingdom]
the legs were of iron [representing the Christian Kingdom] and the
feet were of iron and clay [the wise and foolish virgins of the GT]
Daniel 2:32-33
Again, what I notice is YOUR OPINION overlaid on the text.Notice Daniel 2:44 shows the Lord Returns during the days of the
ten "Toes/Kings" represented by ten toes of Iron (wise virgins)
and clay (foolish virgins)
And what do you NAME this kingdom? Never mind. The kingdom that God sets up that "shall never be destroyed" can ONLY be the reign of Jesus Christ, beginning with the Millennium and then lasting forever.Dan 2:44 And in the days of these [ten] kings shall the God
of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed:
and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Very childish.I have warned you several times to NOT PRETEND that
Biblical Truth is LIMITED to what YOU can understand...
both the Christian Kingdom AND Great Tribulation Kingdom
were prophesied by Daniel.
Very childish.I have warned you several times to NOT PRETEND that
Biblical Truth is LIMITED to what YOU can understand...
both the Christian Kingdom AND Great Tribulation Kingdom
were prophesied by Daniel.
Very childish.I have warned you several times to NOT PRETEND that
Biblical Truth is LIMITED to what YOU can understand...
both the Christian Kingdom AND Great Tribulation Kingdom
were prophesied by Daniel.
It's actually quite sad that anyone who claims to be a student of Scripture would even think that there are "unsaved Christians".And yet, you pretend there are no unsaved Christians.
That is just hilarious.
.
I said:
"Though he was prophesying about end times, he had no idea
about the church age and Gentile involvement." Referring to future people does not equate to NAMING the "Church age". .