There is only One Gospel

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
What did Paul teach the Jews at Rome?
Romans 2:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Paul was given the gospel of the uncircumision by the ascended Christ himself, as I have said.

So yes, obviously physical circumcision was not required for salvation under that gospel.

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
I just posted Peter preaching that in Acts 4!

I suppose you are referring to this?
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

And I already said, he was preaching to Israel, who needed to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, in order to be saved (John 20:31)

But he did not say, Israel can now be saved by that belief alone, without keeping the Law. You are trying to read Romans 4:5 into that passage.

Since Peter was only preaching to Israel, it will be redundant for him to add in Acts 2:38 or Acts 3:19 or Acts 4, "Oh by the way, remember to keep the Law of Moses, you are not exempted from that".

GDL · Oct 12, 2020

Guojing said:
I already agreed with you that Jesus did preached the necessity of works for salvation, during the time of the 4 gospels.

Jesus never preached such a message. You're not in agreement with me at all.

No sense in our continuing this. If & when you'd like to address the foundational Gospel issues I explained from Paul, let me know.

Until then, your 1Cor15 Gospel is not really Paul's Gospel, but only a potion of it. And from what I see, you do not understand Faith, works, Christ's message of Salvation, and a few more things.

You should question wherever you're getting your teaching from.

Mr. M · Oct 12, 2020

Guojing said:
I suppose you are referring to this?
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

And I already said, he was preaching to Israel, who needed to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, in order to be saved (John 20:31)

But he did not say, Israel can now be saved by that belief alone, without keeping the Law. You are trying to read Romans 4:5 into that passage.

Since Peter was only preaching to Israel, it will be redundant for him to add in Acts 2:38 or Acts 3:19 or Acts 4, "Oh by the way, remember to keep the Law of Moses, you are not exempted from that".

So the apostles who were disciples of Jesus Christ were trying to maintain the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile that Paul teaches is eliminated in Christ?

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

GDL said:
Jesus never preached such a message. You're not in agreement with me at all.

You should question wherever you're getting your teaching from.

I got it from Jesus words himself to the rich young man and the 12 in Mark 10

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

I take Jesus's words literally in this passage, without trying to say, "This was what Jesus really meant" like many people I see who try to insert Paul's gospel into the 4 gospels.

No, Jesus meant what he said, and said what he meant there.

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 12, 2020

GDL said:
Jesus never preached such a message. You're not in agreement with me at all.

No sense in our continuing this. If & when you'd like to address the foundational Gospel issues I explained from Paul, let me know.

Until then, your 1Cor15 Gospel is not really Paul's Gospel, but only a potion of it. And from what I see, you do not understand Faith, works, Christ's message of Salvation, and a few more things.

You should question wherever you're getting your teaching from.

And he mentioned being born again only applied the the nation of Israel. I've never heard that in all my 40 years as a believer, have you ?

I've read lots of different theological works but this is a new one for me.

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
So the apostles who were disciples of Jesus Christ were trying to maintain the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile that Paul teaches is eliminated in Christ?

The ascended Christ never told them there is no longer a wall of separation.

We only realized that from Paul's words in Ephesians 2 and 3, but that understanding came after what happened in Acts 28.

I understand it must be hard not to anticipate revelation because all of us are born after all the events in the Bible.

I am asking you to put yourself in the shoes of Peter and understand what he understood then, instead of automatically assuming he must have understood everything that Paul revealed in his epistles from Romans to Philemon, while he was preaching to Israel in Acts.

Why do you think Peter himself admitted in 2 Peter that he found Paul "difficult to understand?"

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
And he mentioned being born again only applied the the nation of Israel. I've never heard that in all my 40 years as a believer, have you ?

I've read lots of different theological works but this is a new one for me.

I have already quoted for you Matthew 15:24 and Romans 15:8.

Those passages are unclear to you?

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 12, 2020

Guojing said:
I have already quoted for you Matthew 15:24 and Romans 15:8.

Those passages are unclear to you?

Which has nothing to do with being born again since its not mentioned in the text.

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Which has nothing to do with being born again since its not mentioned in the text.

If Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel in his first coming, you mean his teaching to them in John 3, you somehow want to insist it was also directed to us?

This is despite you realizing, probably for the first time thru discussing with me, that the term "born again" was never mentioned even once by Paul?

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 12, 2020

Guojing said:
The ascended Christ never told them there is no longer a wall of separation.

We only realized that from Paul's words in Ephesians 2 and 3, but that understanding came after what happened in Acts 28.

I understand it must be hard to anticipate revelation because all of us are born after all the events in the Bible.

I am asking you to put yourself in the shoes of Peter and understand what he understood then, instead of automatically assuming he must have understood everything that Paul revealed in his epistles from Romans to Philemon, while he was preaching to Israel in Acts.

Why do you think Peter himself admitted in 2 Peter that he found Paul "difficult to understand?"

Peter never said Paul was difficult for him to understand you are twisting Peter's words he said:

he said the unstable do not understand and distort them:

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 12, 2020

Guojing said:
If Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel in his first coming, you mean his teaching to them in John 3, you somehow want to insist it was also directed to us?

This is despite you realizing, probably for the first time thru discussing with me, that the term "born again" was never mentioned even once by Paul?

When do believers receive the spirit of God dwelling in them ?

there are synonyms such as Christ in you, the spirit dwells in you, new creations, born from above, Gods spirit in you etc....which I pointed out earlier today.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

And Peter agrees with Paul and Jesus on the new birth taking place at salvation.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

And John

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God

hope this helps !!!

Mr. M · Oct 12, 2020

Guojing said:
I am asking you to put yourself in the shoes of Peter and understand what he understood then, instead of automatically assuming he must have understood everything that Paul revealed in his epistles from Romans to Philemon, while he was preaching to Israel in Acts.

I am assuming nothing. You are telling me about Paul's revelation of the mystery of God in Christ.
Yep, I actually know all about it. It does not make it a different Gospel. The apostle Paul, who was given the revelation said so. Peter found that hard to understand. Apparently, you are also. There is only One Gospel, by One Spirit, One Lord, One God who is above all, and in all. I don't have to read Paul's teaching into what Peter, James and John taught. Peter didn't receive his revelation concerning the Gentiles until Acts 10. It did not change the Gospel, it changed his understanding. Your interpretations do not change my understanding, because there is only One Gospel. We have an even greater revelation to come, right?
1 Corinthians 13: 9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

1 John 3:2. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be,
but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Our imperfect understanding doesn't mean that there is yet a different Gospel to come, just a better understanding. The Gospel was God's Will before the foundation of the world. One God, with One Vision.

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
I am assuming nothing. You are telling me about Paul's revelation of the mystery of God in Christ.
Yep, I actually know all about it. It does not make it a different Gospel. The apostle Paul, who was given the revelation said so. Peter found that hard to understand. Apparently, you are also. There is only One Gospel, by One Spirit, One Lord, One God who is above all, and in all. I don't have to read Paul's teaching into what Peter, James and John taught. Peter didn't receive his revelation concerning the Gentiles until Acts 10. It did not change the Gospel, it changed his understanding. Your interpretations do not change my understanding, because there is only One Gospel. We have an even greater revelation to come, right?
1 Corinthians 13: 9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

1 John 3:2. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be,
but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Our imperfect understanding doesn't mean that there is yet a different Gospel to come, just a better understanding. The Gospel was God's Will before the foundation of the world. One God, with One Vision.

alright then. Nice discussing scripture with you. We can agree to disagree here

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
When do believers receive the spirit of God dwelling in them ?

there are synonyms such as Christ in you, the spirit dwells in you, new creations, born from above, Gods spirit in you etc....which I pointed out earlier today.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

And Peter agrees with Paul and Jesus on the new birth taking place at salvation.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

And John

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God

hope this helps !!!

again from all the passages you quoted, you never wondered why peter and John mentioned born again explicitly in their letters written to Israel

but somehow you can never find that same phrase in Paul, and you have to resort to reading that phrase in.

Doesn’t that realisation fascinates you?

Guojing · Oct 12, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Peter never said Paul was difficult for him to understand you are twisting Peter's words he said:

he said the unstable do not understand and distort them:

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Guess you have a different interpretation of what peter was talking about in that passage

that is normal. we can agree to disagree. No need to say I am twisting when you are just disagreeing

RickReads · Oct 13, 2020

Guojing said:
again from all the passages you quoted, you never wondered why peter and John mentioned born again explicitly in their letters written to Israel

but somehow you can never find that same phrase in Paul, and you have to resort to reading that phrase in.

Doesn’t that realisation fascinates you?

You keep going on about this as though it helps you. It doesn`t. Jesus spoke in parables and He spoke in ways that His listeners often didn`t understand. He used the term new birth as a metaphor for the work of the Holy Spirit in a believer. There was no reason for Paul to use the term, he didn`t speak in parables and metaphors.

RickReads · Oct 13, 2020

Guojing said:
You are probably the first I have seen, who actually use gotquestions to justify his own personal doctrine, claiming it to be mainstream Christianity.

Its your own interpretation and you are sharing it with everyone here, which is of course your right. I disagree with you and let us move on.

The point of adding the link was a futile effort to get you to see that it is not a belief exclusive to me. It is a common orthodox doctrine among many evangelicals. I could put up many links all saying same thing.

James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

Grace is the only alternative and grace is what James believed in.

RickReads · Oct 13, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Here is what you are ignorant of:
Romans 3:25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare
His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
You do not get to plead the blood over ungodliness after becoming a Christian.
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?"
Then where does that leave you?
"Judge not, and you will not be judged."
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! The Perfect Law Of Liberty!

FYI, your "knowledge of history" is doctrines of men. A wise person knows to ignore their teachings
and stick to the ministry in the Word and Prayer, by the Holy Spirit.

Blood of Jesus only good for one wash? One mistake and Jesus throws you out of the Kingdom?
You are misusing these verses.

RickReads · Oct 13, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
And he mentioned being born again only applied the the nation of Israel. I've never heard that in all my 40 years as a believer, have you ?

I've read lots of different theological works but this is a new one for me.

Pretty standard dispensationalist view although they usually know to be careful coming out with it. They believe the gospel of Jesus has been replaced by the epistles of Paul. Common for them not to give the words of Jesus the same reverence you and I would.

There is only One Gospel

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