Is faith a factor in climate change denial?

FireDragon76 · Oct 12, 2020

Caliban said:
You used the word identical--of course I don't think anything is identical. But I can read and evaluate a text by considering the authorial choices, the original audience, and the cultural context of the time. It is not as if these texts are all that mysterious.

The western post-Enlightenment understanding of the world is just as culturally contingent as the Bronze Age one. It is not ultimate truth. The idea we are at the end of history, that philosophy arrived at a perfected state with the Enlightenment, is a western liberal notion, one that deserves more criticism that people are too often not willing to invest in.

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

FireDragon76 said:
Have you considered your approach is more akin to your Reformed epistemological assumptions than you might care to admit? You've walked away from religion, but the epistemic framework remains unchallenged.

I have thought deeply about this, but I have shaken off much of my proper assumptions. I think this is one too. Here is why. When I was a Calvinist, I did not believe in Libertarian Free Will because I thought the concept contradicted the doctrine of sovereignty. I no longer hold those religious beliefs, but I also do not believe I Libertarian Free Will--not because I have no interrogated by presuppositions or unchallenged my epistemic framework, as you say, but for other reasons entirely. My approach to literature is similar. It has more to do with my education in literature and approach to literary criticism.

Kenny'sID · Oct 12, 2020

To me, it all boils down to, I have good reason to believe the climate will be pretty much normal at the return of Christ, so between the following scripture that tells me that, and the fact so many figure they have good reason to believe climate change is a joke, I'm sure enough its not a problem.

And if one's not a Christian, then of course there is no reason they would consider this a reason to not be concerned.

Matthew 24:36-42

"36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

Looks pretty much like business as usual to me anyway.

FireDragon76 · Oct 12, 2020

hedrick said:
Evolution was just the first issue, at least in modern times. Ancient Near East history and archaeology, the big bang, understanding of sex, child discipline. The list is getting longer. As you start getting more and more things dismissed as "the world" conspiring against Christians, I conjecture that it gets easier to use the same kind of explanation for other things. I admit this is just a guess, but there's enough correlation among these various views, and the kinds of arguments made about them, to make me suspect it.

It's great insight, not just a guess.

What concerns me the most is how little concern for anything like a humanistic ethic drives Evangelicals defense of what is increasingly becoming the indefensible. It doesn't seem very Jesus-like, to me (unless perhaps you read certain texts in the Bible in isolation). And it does seem to be increasingly what is the "glue" that is holding Evangelicalism together as a coherent socio-religious identity, and explains alot how so many Evangelicals could rally behind somebody like Donald Trump.

FireDragon76 · Oct 12, 2020

Caliban said:
I have thought deeply about this, but I have shaken off much of my proper assumptions. I think this is one too. Here is why. When I was a Calvinist, I did not believe in Libertarian Free Will because I thought the concept contradicted the doctrine of sovereignty. I no longer hold those religious beliefs, but I also do not believe I Libertarian Free Will--not because I have no interrogated by presuppositions or unchallenged my epistemic framework, as you say, but for other reasons entirely. My approach to literature is similar. It has more to do with my education in literature and approach to literary criticism.

A certain school of Reformed thought in the US that developed at Princeton in the 19th century tried to take a very "scientific" approach to the Bible, steeped in what is called "Scottish Common Sense Realism", and there are echoes of that in how you seem to handle Biblical texts.

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

FireDragon76 said:
A certain school of Reformed thought in the US that developed at Princeton in the 19th century tried to take a very "scientific" approach to the Bible, steeped in what is called "Scottish Common Sense Realism", and there are echoes of that in how you seem to handle Biblical texts.

But how I "seem" to handle a text, given my very truncated explanation, and how I do so over several thousand pages may be different.

I am sure your way of reading the Bible is different from what I am criticizing--that's good. Recall that the topic of this thread involves those conservative elements of Evangelicalism which take what they call a "high view" of the text. That's code for a literalist approach. I am aware of many different hermeneutical approaches to analyzing a text--I believed in more than one over the course of my time as a believer. How I personally approach a literary text (notice I didn't say the Bible) is a bit off topic. Those discussions never really develop fruit on this forum anyway. Of course everyone thinks their approach is best suited to a proper reading.

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
To me, it all boils down to, I have good reason to believe the climate will be pretty much normal at the return of Christ, so between the following scripture that tells me that, and the fact so many figure they have good reason to believe climate change is a joke, I'm sure enough its not a problem.

And if one's not a Christian, then of course there is no reason they would consider this a reason to not be concerned.

Matthew 24:36-42

"36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

Looks pretty much like business as usual to me anyway.

I don't think normal is scientific data point. Is it your opinion that environmental climate change is inconsequential?

Kenny'sID · Oct 12, 2020

Caliban said:
I don't think normal is scientific data point. Is it your opinion that environmental climate change is inconsequential?

Read what i said about not expecting an atheist to agree.

It is my opinion the bible wins out over the science that people can't seem to decide if it supports or rules out climate change..

FireDragon76 · Oct 12, 2020

Caliban said:
But how I "seem" to handle a text, given my very truncated explanation, and how I do so over several thousand pages may be different.

I am sure your way of reading the Bible is different from what I am criticizing--that's good. Recall that the topic of this thread involves those conservative elements of Evangelicalism which take what they call a "high view" of the text. That's code for a literalist approach. I am aware of many different hermeneutical approaches to analyzing a text--I believed in more than one over the course of my time as a believer. How I personally approach a literary text (notice I didn't say the Bible) is a bit off topic. Those discussions never really develop fruit on this forum anyway. Of course everyone thinks their approach is best suited to a proper reading.

White Evangelicalism in the US is best understood by studying history and sociology, not the Bible. Anything else simply gives their rhetoric too much credit.

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Read what i said about not expecting an atheist to agree.

It is my opinion the bible wins out over the science that people can't seem to decide if it supports or rules out climate change..

Gotcha--thats sounds like perilous news for countless species and habitats.

cow451 · Oct 12, 2020

Michael Collum said:
That we should be mindful of how we treat the creation since we still have stewardship handed down to us from when Adam was given it along with Eve.

When I was a practicing evangelical it seemed the general attitude was that the Earth was basically a landfill. Not my attitude, but many of my fellow evangelicals.

Gregory Thompson · Oct 12, 2020

cow451 said:
When I was a practicing evangelical it seemed the general attitude was that the Earth was basically a landfill. Not my attitude, but many of my fellow evangelicals.

I saw that too.

There is an entity that devours the earth in the scripture, it is called the beast.

For those with ears to hear and eyes to see, flee from babylon, and don't be destroyed because of her sins.

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

I agree with that, but those Evangelicals won't.

Kenny'sID · Oct 12, 2020

Caliban said:
Gotcha--thats sounds like perilous news for countless species and habitats.

But you dont know for sure, just like others.

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
But you dont know for sure, just like others.

Yes--we--do. You are theologically opposed to the conclusions of climatologists, and you are likely unfamiliar with the evidence and are likely unable to dispute the evidence on its merits.

Kenny'sID · Oct 12, 2020

Caliban said:
Yes--we--do. You are theologically opposed to the conclusions of climatologists, and you are likely unfamiliar with the evidence and are likely unable to dispute the evidence on its merits.

Prove it.

Jonathan Walkerin · Oct 12, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
I have good reason to believe the climate will be pretty much normal at the return of Christ, so between the following scripture that tells me that, and the fact so many figure they have good reason to believe climate change is a joke, I'm sure enough its not a problem.

So you are not looking at the science but think that return of the Christ will happen soon enough that it won’t be a problem and because there are others like you who believe it is a joke you feel ok being ignorant ?

Anyway, how does scripture tell you that climate will be pretty much normal at the return of the Christ ?

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Prove it.

What part do you want evidence for? Please be as specific as possible so I can get you evidence targeted to a specific claim.

Halbhh · Oct 12, 2020

Caliban said:
One study suggest the answer is yes when combined with politics (among Evangelicals).

If you are not an Evangelical, what do you think about his?

Faith and politics mix to drive evangelical Christians’ climate change denial

Links to PEW Research data in the above article.

I prefer to use the word "faith" to refer to actual belief in God, evidenced by following His instructions, instead of 'faith' referring to merely an affiliation or religious identity or denomination, as the word is used typically in the modern secular usage.

Caliban · Oct 12, 2020

Halbhh said:
I prefer to use the word "faith" to refer to actual belief in God, evidenced by following His instructions, instead of 'faith' referring to merely an affiliation or religious identity or denomination, as the word is used typically in the modern secular usage.

There are multiple usages of the word faith. All of them have value given their context and ability to communicate the writer or speakers intent. So long as those taking the poll understood the question they were asked, it was an effective use of the term.

Is faith a factor in climate change denial?

Is faith a factor in climate change denial?

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No

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