Civil war If trump isn't elected

Hazelelponi said:

The only thing that would ever set off the right to the point of readying for war is to start changing the constitution in an unconstitutional manner, such as adding to the number of SCOTUS justices in order to get partisan judges in, such as removing people's 2A freedoms in large part etc etc.

Biden simply winning isn't the issue, the issue is if that creates the environment where a change in our constitution occurs, unconstitutionally...

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You do realize that the number of justices isn't something specified by the Constitution?

Hazelelponi said:

If Biden wins legitimately I'm happy with that if it's what people choose... I'm not happy with major changes to our constitution.. our system works and I'll die before I'll sit and live under a Marxist/Leninist system. That's just a fact.

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The it is good that no major Democrat is advocating a Marxist/Leninist system -- or even a socialist one. You seem to be falling for the fearmongering of some on the right.

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I wasn't really looking for a response, merely pointing out that the person is baselessly fearmongering. Unless you can find a legitimate news story about who the "leftist groups" are, which are planning a "political apocalypse" of violence and chaos?

The most dangerous situation is if Biden wins but a combination of corruption and court actions causes enough Democratic votes not to be counted to reverse it. We're used to the electoral college. While I don't really consider a president who lost the popular vote to be legitimate, he is legal. But a repeat of Bush vs Gore in enough states to reverse the election would be a lot more serious.

Incidentally, I supported Bush vs Gore at the time. There was a good statistical argument to be made that the proposed recount was biased. But if you're willing to go that far with one man one vote, you'd have to outlaw gerrymandering too. The combination of Bush vs Gore and refusing to deal with gerrymandering puts us in a situation where the court is already compromised.

Seems to me the "waring type" have already made it known they play for the right, so I would only expect civil war if Trump wins.

SeventyOne said:

It certainly isn't the left waiting. They started their planned demonstrations, riots, and impeachment threats the day after the election. Literally. Even threatened the lives of some of the electors (and don't imply they didn't, I was a state delegate that election cycle and knew of this happening personally), and all this was prior to the inauguration.

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And it should tell you how unpopular the election result was and how unhappy people were with his taking office. And he has done plenty to warrant the protests and fostered the social and political environment we have found ourselves in.

When you see someone that could become a tyrant, you need to make some noise. It is just to bad that the right just wants us to be quiet.

SimplyMe said:

I wasn't really looking for a response, merely pointing out that the person is baselessly fearmongering. Unless you can find a legitimate news story about who the "leftist groups" are, which are planning a "political apocalypse" of violence and chaos?

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The article give their name. i have never heard of them. I looked on line and there are several articles about their secret plans to create chaos if Trump wins.

Democracy Defense Nerve Center is their name, and they are addressed as a Left Wing group. I guess we will be hearing more about them soon.

Paulos23 said:

And it should tell you how unpopular the election result was and how unhappy people were with his taking office. And he has done plenty to warrant the protests and fostered the social and political environment we have found ourselves in.

When you see someone that could become a tyrant, you need to make some noise. It is just to bad that the right just wants us to be quiet.

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I'm not responsible for the lies you and others like you have chosen to buy into. So, I'm not going to dig into that aspect of the willingly incessent brainwashing you all have gone through. That said, my point in that post was on the actions pre-inaguration. In other words, before Trump had even taken his first action in office. They were completely unhinged and violent on day 1.

Charlie24 said:

The article give their name. i have never heard of them. I looked on line and there are several articles about their secret plans to create chaos if Trump wins.

Democracy Defense Nerve Center is their name, and they are addressed as a Left Wing group. I guess we will be hearing more about them soon.

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When the Google machine is used for this name, the very first link comes up as a Conservapedia page...not a “good start”.
Here’s the entire entry:

“Democracy Defense Nerve Center is a communist front formerly know as Fight Back Table founded after the 2016 presidential election. The group serves as a nerve center to coordinate and provide logistical support for violent leftist riots during the Biden Putsch.”

oh noes! Leftists are doing things!

Please return to sanity.

Pommer said:

When the Google machine is used for this name, the very first link comes up as a Conservapedia page...not a “good start”.
Here’s the entire entry:

“Democracy Defense Nerve Center is a communist front formerly know as Fight Back Table founded after the 2016 presidential election. The group serves as a nerve center to coordinate and provide logistical support for violent leftist riots during the Biden Putsch.”

oh noes! Leftists are doing things!

Please return to sanity.

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I don't know anything about them.

Do you have proof that this is false because it comes from a conservative source?

SeventyOne said:

I'm not responsible for the lies you and others like you have chosen to buy into. So, I'm not going to dig into that aspect of the willingly incessent brainwashing you all have gone through. That said, my point in that post was on the actions pre-inaguration. In other words, before Trump had even taken his first action in office. They were completely unhinged and violent on day 1.

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But you’ll be ready for them this time, having bought your extra food and [checks notes] “ammo”.

Remain afraid if you wish but I’m prepared for another 4 years of “President Trump” if things go that way.

Charlie24 said:

The article give their name. i have never heard of them. I looked on line and there are several articles about their secret plans to create chaos if Trump wins.

Democracy Defense Nerve Center is their name, and they are addressed as a Left Wing group. I guess we will be hearing more about them soon.

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Their non-violent plans? "They began charting out what it would take to stand up a multi-state communications arm to fight disinformation, a training program for nonviolent civil disobedience, and the underpinnings of what one official described as “mass public unrest.”"

Apparently they ran a simulation of the election with how they would react to "dirty tricks" by the Trump campaign, as well as Trump himself. Among the things they were looking at was armed right-wing Trump "poll watchers" (which Trump seemingly has called for) that might attempt to intimidate voters, or trying to use the DoJ to harm the Democrats (since we also know Trump has called for Barr to indict his political opponents).

It seems to me they have good reason to plan how they might respond to Republican "dirty tricks" in a non-violent way.

Charlie24 said:

I don't know anything about them.

Do you have proof that this is false because it comes from a conservative source?

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I made no claim as to the validity (or lack thereof) of the Conservapedia article.
As a certain President might say, “it is what it is”.

SimplyMe said:

You do realize that the number of justices isn't something specified by the Constitution?



The it is good that no major Democrat is advocating a Marxist/Leninist system -- or even a socialist one. You seem to be falling for the fearmongering of some on the right.

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The number might not be specified, but judging according to law most certainly is, not the law as we might like it to be, but as it is written.

The one branch of government that is supposed to be non-partisan but judge according to law is a real problem to the left.

As far as listening to "right wing fear mongering" nope. I'm listening to the left and what they are saying -and doing - that's what makes it terrifying. If it were up to the left we'd be in the middle of an EU style trade agreement where a group of non elected people would have the ability to override congressional authority where concerns our immigration laws as well as our 2A freedoms...

So yeah. It's the left I find terrifying... due to their own actions and words... and lack of them.

Hazelelponi said:

If it were up to the left we'd be in the middle of an EU style trade agreement where a group of non elected people...

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Did you miss the memo?
“We’re not a democracy”
https://twitter.com/senmikelee/status/1314016169993670656?s=21

Hazelelponi said:

The one branch of government that is supposed to be non-partisan but judge according to law is a real problem to the left.

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You really think picking a judge who is an anti-abortion activist produced a non-partisan court?

I've less worried about the Supreme Court than fairness in elections. If Rowe v Wade is overturned, national action on health is impossible, and the civil rights rulings about various issues, it won't affect me. It will, however, result in a split in the country between a blue and red version. Good luck getting major companies to locate in states with third-world health systems.

hedrick said:

You really think picking a judge who is an anti-abortion activist produced a non-partisan court?

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She has proven on the bench to judge according to law, and not religious beliefs.

She even mentioned in one of her judgements that she sees Roe V Wade as a matter of settled law, but she does see the way they worded their SCOTUS decision to leave late term abortion as something that may need further examination..

You should actually pay attention to the way she judges, not the way she believes. You'll see how she interprets law, I see it as quite just... she's pretty good, not an extremist by any stretch of the imagination.

Hazelelponi said:

She has proven on the bench to judge according to law, and not religious beliefs.

She even mentioned in one of her judgements that she sees Roe V Wade as a matter of settled law, but she does see the way they worded their SCOTUS decision to leave late term abortion as something that may need further examination..

You should actually pay attention to the way she judges, not the way she believes. You'll see how she interprets law, I see it as quite just...

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I’m OK with restrictions on the third trimester. I think that’s a pretty common view.

hedrick said:

I’m OK with restrictions on the third trimester. I think that’s a pretty common view.

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I'm not okay with abortion at all... but like her I do see Roe V. Wade as settled law... it's got precedent now, so that's kind of it. (You cant unring a bell as the saying goes)..

But I agree with her in the way Roe. V. Wade is worded, it does leave late term abortion a question mark since in cases of the mother's life, but with fetal viability the child can be medically saved. Modern medicine has come a long way....

my sisters son was born weighing only 3 pounds, and he has gone on to become a fine and healthy young man (he's in his late 20's)...

Hazelelponi said:

I'm not okay with abortion at all... but like her I do see Roe V. Wade as settled law... it's got precedent now, so that's kind of it. (You cant unring a bell as the saying goes)..

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There are so many restrictions in states, and more coming, that Rowe v Wade is effectively dead now. If she is serious about it being settled law, she will help fix this. If so, she'll be an unusual conservative.

I consider the third trimester significant from a theological perspective, not a medical one. It's the earliest point where the brain begins to function in a way that I would consider essential in making us in the image of God, as opposed to other animals. I think it's dangerous in the long run to consider anything with human DNA to be a person.