Mere Protestantism

concretecamper · Oct 10, 2020

bekkilyn said:
And I'm even including many Catholics into that mix of people that I've known. They may not have had an actual altar call, but since they were Catholic, that's all that was apparently required of them except for maybe going to mass on major holidays to please their families or because they grew up that way.

then you dont know good practicing Catholics.

bekkilyn · Oct 10, 2020

concretecamper said:
then you dont know good practicing Catholics.

I've known a number of Catholics who are very serious about their spiritual growth and practice, but it still doesn't negate that fact that there are others who believe that all that is spiritually required of them is being Catholic.

concretecamper · Oct 10, 2020

bekkilyn said:
I've known a number of Catholics who are very serious about their spiritual growth and practice, but it still doesn't negate that fact that there are others who believe that all that is spiritually required of them is being Catholic.

I guess I dont judge based on the lowest common denominator

Hmm · Oct 11, 2020

concretecamper said:
There in lies the difference

The real difference is that you prefer absolute certainty (which is only possible for those who witnessed the risen Christ) whereas I'm happy that faith is trust in the face of objective uncertainty (which is what it is. If we knew for sure, we would not need faith/trust)

bekkilyn · Oct 11, 2020

Hmmm! said:
The real difference is that you prefer absolute certainty (which is only possible for those who witnessed the risen Christ) whereas I'm happy that faith is trust in the face of objective uncertainty (which is what it is. If we knew for sure, we would not need faith/trust)

And even for those who actually witnessed the risen Christ, there was still much mystery. Mystery and uncertainty is simply a part of faith. If we knew everything with absolute certainty, it would no longer be faith, but knowledge. Faith requires mystery, and yes, some people have an extremely difficult time with it, especially in current times in which everything has to have a reason or logical explanation.

Hmm · Oct 11, 2020

bekkilyn said:
And even for those who actually witnessed the risen Christ, there was still much mystery. Mystery and uncertainty is simply a part of faith. If we knew everything with absolute certainty, it would no longer be faith, but knowledge. Faith requires mystery, and yes, some people have an extremely difficult time with it, especially in current times in which everything has to have a reason or logical explanation.

I think that's true. I think that Christian faith is the most plausible and compelling account of life, the universe and everything but proof is something that belongs only in the world of Mathematics. It doesn't even exist in science - scientific theories are simply the best models that we have to describe an aspect of the physical world at any given point in time. Bit they aren't proved in any way. They are always tentative and must be abandoned if future evidence disproves them. Scientific theories can be disproved but never proved, and science itself recognises these limits in itself - I'm not being anti-science.

Of course, our understanding and faith is not valueless just because it doesn't have some quality of infallibility that somehow we're aware of. A trusting faith is certainly enough to assure us that we are loved by God but I think you're right to say that the trusting element of faith is necessary.

Albion · Oct 11, 2020

bekkilyn said:
I understand that, but it sounded as if she believed that all you had to do was become "saved" and then never have to put in any effort afterwards to grow as a Christian.

If that were the case, then of course we'd agree that such a view is wrong.

I've known a number of Christians like that whose lives remained exactly the same after they were "saved" as before they said the "sinner's prayer". In some cases, it was worse. And I'm even including many Catholics into that mix of people that I've known.

They may not have had an actual altar call, but since they were Catholic, that's all that was apparently required of them except for maybe going to mass on major holidays to please their families or because they grew up that way.

I can't disagree with that! Thanks.

Andrewn · Oct 11, 2020

thecolorsblend said:
But, being as I'm Catholic myself, it seemed a bit self-serving in a thread like this for me to announce my belief that Protestants don't agree with each other on any single point of doctrine but rather are united only in their protest of the traditional Churches.

What unites Protestants is not their protest of the traditional authorities but their protest of the institutionalization of the work of the Holy Spirit in the 7 sacraments of traditional Churches.

hedrick · Oct 11, 2020

Andrewn said:
What unites Protestants is not their protest of the traditional authorities but their protest of the institutionalization of the work of the Holy Spirit in the 7 sacraments of traditional Churches.

Perhaps. But at this point most Protestants don’t define themselves by reference to Catholicism. The Catholic Church is irrelevant to most of us most of the time.

concretecamper · Oct 11, 2020

hedrick said:
Perhaps. But at this point most Protestants don’t define themselves by reference to Catholicism. The Catholic Church is irrelevant to most of us most of the time.

1 week on this forum and anyone could see that this is simply not true.

bekkilyn · Oct 11, 2020

concretecamper said:
1 week on this forum and anyone could see that this is simply not true.

The internet isn't a accurate reflection of the majority of Christianity, or really anything at all.

concretecamper · Oct 11, 2020

bekkilyn said:
The internet isn't a accurate reflection of the majority of Christianity, or really anything at all

100% agree. However, how this pertains to my post, I'll never know.

bekkilyn · Oct 11, 2020

concretecamper said:
100% agree. However, how this pertains to my post, I'll never know.

You specifically said (emphasis mine):

"1 week on this forum and anyone could see that this is simply not true."

This forum is also part of the internet and is thus also not an accurate reflection of Christianity on the whole. I'd even say it's mostly a reflection of people who just seem to like arguing about it and everything else.

concretecamper · Oct 11, 2020

bekkilyn said:
You specifically said (emphasis mine):

"1 week on this forum and anyone could see that this is simply not true."

This forum is also part of the internet and is thus also not an accurate reflection of Christianity on the whole. I'd even say it's mostly a reflection of people who just seem to like arguing about it and everything else.

haha, I see not only scripture will be misinterpreted.

Jonaitis · Oct 11, 2020

Hmmm! said:
I've not read CS Lewis's Mere Christianity but am I right in thinking that it describes the fundamentals of the Christian faith that all demoninations, including the Catholic and Orthodox churches, are in agreement on?

If so, is there something similar specifically for Protestant denominations and would this be the five solas of the Reformation, namely:

Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")

Sola fide ("by faith alone")

Sola gratia ("by grace alone")

Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")

Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

Is this something that all Protestant churches agree on?

Protestantism is distinguished from the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox by the Five Solas.

Mere Protestantism

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