Is the Day of the Lord exactly 1000 years as Premils claim?

BABerean2

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Jesus said otherwise

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."


Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.


Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


Luk 21:5  Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 
Luk 21:6  "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 

(Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )


Luk 21:7  So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?" 

(Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

( Mar 13:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 

Mar 13:4  "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?") 


Luk 21:8  And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. 

(Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )


Luk 21:9  But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.) 


Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution

Luk 21:10  Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:11  And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )


Luk 21:12  But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)


Luk 21:13  But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 
Luk 21:14  Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 
Luk 21:15  for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 
Luk 21:16  You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 
Luk 21:17  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )



Luk 21:18  But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 
Luk 21:19  By your patience possess your souls. 

(Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.) 


Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem

Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 

(Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 
(Look at the reference to Hanukkah in John 10:22, if you want to know what the Jews of Jesus time understood about Antiochus Ephiphanes attacking the city during 167 BC, when his forces killed thousands of Jews, and stopped the sacrifices. Those two things also happened during 70AD.)


Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 

(Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.) 



Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. (See also Luke 23:28-31.) 

(Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! )


Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ. Paul also referred to this time period in Romans 11:25, and Acts 28:28.)


The Coming of the Son of Man

Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

(Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.) 


Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 
Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

(Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.) 


Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 

(Mat 24:33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

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From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the same reference to flee in the second verse in each Gospel.


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Timtofly

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Should we trust the sanity of one who ignores what Christ said in Matthew 25:31-46?

Should we trust the sanity of one who ignores Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?

Should we trust the sanity of one who ignores Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1?

Should we trust the sanity of one who ignores Revelation 11:18?
The judgment of the trumpets is the separation of the sheep and goats. Not the church.


The glorification of the church is at the 6th seal.


Every human only has one physical life to live for Christ. What does this have to do with Revelation? Only those living in the last year have to endure, or every Christian that ever lived regardless of the date?

If you are alive on earth in the time of Revelation 11:18, you have ignored all my post.
 
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Timtofly

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Nowhere in Scripture does it say that the day of the Lord is 1000 years. You impose that on the sacred text. It is one single climactic day that ushers in eternity.
That is the day of the Lord's wrath not the Day of the Lord. The Lord's Day is not the Lord's wrath. Day and wrath are not the same concept, not even symbolically. Day is time, wrath is judgment. Unless all of time is just symbolic judgment and judgment is the 4th dimension? It is your opinion not mine.
 
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Timtofly

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Jesus said otherwise

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
The 1000 years is not the wrath of God or the Lamb. You are falling for the trap mentioned of agreeing that 1000 is only a symbol. In math 1000 is a symbol of a literal 1000. No getting around 1000 symbolically or literally. The text on the page symbolizes 1000 literal years. When we see 1000 years, it is 1000 years. If John had used the "Lord's Day" instead of "1000 years", it would be a guessing game. Peter said only the ignorant "guess" at what 1000 years actually is. The Lord's Day is the symbolic term. 1000 years is the literal term.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Jesus said otherwise

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

That was talking about AD70. This shows how Premils must distort Scripture in order to sustain their non-corroborative theory.
 
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sovereigngrace

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That is the day of the Lord's wrath not the Day of the Lord. The Lord's Day is not the Lord's wrath. Day and wrath are not the same concept, not even symbolically. Day is time, wrath is judgment. Unless all of time is just symbolic judgment and judgment is the 4th dimension? It is your opinion not mine.

Same thing. Premils are always seeing double. There want another kingdom age after this because they need it. The second coming sees the end of sin, sinners, sickness, satan, crying and dying.
 
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Timtofly

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Same thing. Premils are always seeing double. There want another kingdom age after this because they need it. The second coming sees the end of sin, sinners, sickness, satan, crying and dying.
Really? I need Revelation 20 and you do not need it? Hope the denial of Revelation 20 does not come back to haunt you some day.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Really? I need Revelation 20 and you do not need it? Hope the denial of Revelation 20 does not come back to haunt you some day.

Keep your taunts and chides away or i am done talking. Revelation 20 perfectly demonstrates the Amil scenario.
 
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BABerean2

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The judgment of the trumpets is the separation of the sheep and goats. Not the church.


The glorification of the church is at the 6th seal.


Every human only has one physical life to live for Christ. What does this have to do with Revelation? Only those living in the last year have to endure, or every Christian that ever lived regardless of the date?

If you are alive on earth in the time of Revelation 11:18, you have ignored all my post.


Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation:


Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.


The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.


The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.


He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?


He comes on a horse in chapter 19.


He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)

There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.

An angel with a key comes down and opens the pit in Revelation 9:1-2.
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:11?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.

Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.



The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".


.
 
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RickReads

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The 1000 years is not the wrath of God or the Lamb. You are falling for the trap mentioned of agreeing that 1000 is only a symbol. In math 1000 is a symbol of a literal 1000. No getting around 1000 symbolically or literally. The text on the page symbolizes 1000 literal years. When we see 1000 years, it is 1000 years. If John had used the "Lord's Day" instead of "1000 years", it would be a guessing game. Peter said only the ignorant "guess" at what 1000 years actually is. The Lord's Day is the symbolic term. 1000 years is the literal term.


The government of Jesus will be eternal, "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this."

The 1000 years is a period of peace which ends with the release of satan. Jesus rules now, He rules before the thousand years and continues ruling after the thousand years are fulfilled.
 
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RickReads

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Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation:


Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.


The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.


The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.


He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?


He comes on a horse in chapter 19.


He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)

There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.

An angel with a key comes down and opens the pit in Revelation 9:1-2.
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:11?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.

Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.



The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".


.

"Recapitulation" can`t go wrong wit dat huh? :doh:
 
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Contenders Edge

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I am a premillennialist and I do not believe it is a literal 1,000 years. I also do not believe in the rapture and the idea is absurd.

When Jesus comes back to judge the living and the dead, the dead rise (who were in Christ), then the living (in Christ) rise to Jesus and we all descend and Jesus establishes his kingdom whereby Satan is cast into the bottomless pit. Then after 1,000 years (figurative) Satan is released to be judged and has a final hurrah to influence the world and that is whe Gog and Magog rise up. Then Jesus executes His final judgement and ushers in a new heaven and a new earth.

What here contradicts scripture? Genuinely curious as this is what I was taught.


How is it that you call yourself a premillennialist and yet deny a literal thousand year reign? Curious.
 
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Timtofly

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That is all Premil has. Amil has multiple Scripture to support it.
You mean multiple out of context, private interpretation, symbolically meaning whatever Amil need them to mean, passages?
 
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sovereigngrace

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You mean multiple out of context, private interpretation, symbolically meaning whatever Amil need them to mean, passages?

It is Premillennialism that takes a text of the context and makes it a pretext. Premil has only one string to their guitar and it is making a very monotonous sound: “what saith Revelation 20?”

The first principle of evidence is: he who alleges must prove.

American and British Law demands corroboration, they were built upon OT principles.

God’s truth is not built upon logic. Logic is human reasoning and runs contrary to God's mind. It is fleshly, dangerous and unreliable. It is mere personal opinion. Truth is built solely on Scripture. Romans 4:3 rightly asks, For what saith the Scripture?"

We must therefore interpret Scripture with Scripture and not by the man’s innovative religious constraints, history books, ancient or modern writings, eschatological books/novels, archaeology or, as is popular today in this day of apostasy, human reasoning. When examining Scripture we must throw off the heavy theological chains that men place on us, decommission our flawed natural mind-set, as it is mainly contrary to God’s mind, and embrace the simple meaning of the passage that is determined by context, location and wording.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13 says, “we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”

God expects us to compare Scripture with Scripture – the spiritual with the spiritual. Scripture is the supreme and absolute means for interpreting other Scripture.

Corroboration must be a fundamental tenet of any doctrine.
 
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Timtofly

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You are avoiding every point. You are distracting because you have nothing. I am not going to play the game.
Just trying to figure out if corroboration is also just not man made philosophy. I guess it can be avoided as well.

You have avoided every point that I have presented.
 
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