LDS possible sources for BOM avilable to JS

Ran77

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The LDS have a thing they call "the Mormon challange." Where you earnestly pray before you read the BOM for the Holy |Spirit to show you if it is frpm God. I did it---and so have many others on here---I know, without dout, the Holy Spirit said---"It is not from me."But they themselves will not take that same challange about anyone else's writtings. I have challanged them, to read Thje Great Controversey, or the Desire of Ages. Which even Billy Graham had in his library. They won't.

Are you suggesting that The Great Controversy and Desire of Ages are books of scripture? That's what your comments suggest. It would be like members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints asking others to take the challenge for Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. Mc Conkie or Jesus the Christ by James E. Talmage. I have never heard of anyone from our church making that sort of challenge. It's best to compare apples to apples instead of distant comparisons.
 
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Ran77

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Many people have taken the same challenge and the spirit told them that the Book of Mormon is indeed from God. In my case I believe in a fair and just God, one who gives EVERYONE the same opportunity to be saved, even those who died without being baptized. Baptism is a necessary ordinance:

Great point.

For me, the prayer challenge is important because it means I don't have to rely on the word of man. Or the opinion of man. It means I can go directly to the source. All of us can. And when a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints makes this challenge they are inviting others to go straight to the source. I think that tells a lot about us and our religion. During the last couple of General Conferences, there has been a heavier focus on personal revelation. Each of us need to have a strong enough relationship with God to be able to hear His word. The stronger that connection, the louder we hear Him.

And the great thing about getting your, mine, our information from God is that it allows us to stand up to the criticism of others. My testimony is based on the messages I have received from God and not from what anyone else believes. Being told that someone else did not receive the same message as me doesn't rattle my faith. Nor do I expect that person's faith to be rattled by me expressing my views.

I attend this debate forum because I learn from many of the discussions in which I participate. I certainly don't expect to convince anyone of my view through argument. Just as I'm not going to be convinced of the truth of my opponents views by their arguments. At best, an effective comment will make me pause to think and then I have that wonderful option of asking my Heavenly Father for wisdom on the matter.
 
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mmksparbud

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Are you suggesting that The Great Controversy and Desire of Ages are books of scripture? That's what your comments suggest. It would be like members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints asking others to take the challenge for Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. Mc Conkie or Jesus the Christ by James E. Talmage. I have never heard of anyone from our church making that sort of challenge. It's best to compare apples to apples instead of distant comparisons.

I made no comment to you---nor did I suggest such a thing. I was challanged by Mormons to read the BOM in prayer, which I did and got my answer that it is not of God. When I proposed the same challange to Mormons---they will not---Mormons will not accpt their challange about anyone elses books. Again---I dirrected no comment to you nor did I say anything at all about scripture. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH AND ACCUSE ME OF ANYTHING I DID NOT SAY OR EVEN THINK.
You have done this before, I said I would not direct comments to you again and I have not. so please do not direct any comments to me---- if you address me again, I will simply put you on ignore.
 
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mmksparbud

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Many people have taken the same challenge and the spirit told them that the Book of Mormon is indeed from God. In my case I believe in a fair and just God, one who gives EVERYONE the same opportunity to be saved, even those who died without being baptized. Baptism is a necessary ordinance:

(New Testament | John 3:3)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:29)

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


Thius does not ddress what I said.
 
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He is the way

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The LDS have a thing they call "the Mormon challange." Where you earnestly pray before you read the BOM for the Holy |Spirit to show you if it is frpm God. I did it---and so have many others on here---I know, without dout, the Holy Spirit said---"It is not from me."But they themselves will not take that same challange about anyone else's writtings. I have challanged them, to read Thje Great Controversey, or the Desire of Ages. Which even Billy Graham had in his library. They won't.
"All this was as Satan would have it. This was what for ages he had been working to secure. His policy is deception from first to last, and his steadfast purpose is to bring woe and wretchedness upon men, to deface and defile the workmanship of God, to mar the divine purposes of benevolence and love, and thus cause grief in Heaven. Then by his deceptive arts he blinds the minds of men, and leads them to throw back the blame of his work upon God, as if all this misery were the result of the Creator's plan. In like manner, when those who have been degraded and brutalized through his cruel power achieve their freedom, he urges them on to excesses and atrocities. Then this picture of unbridled license is pointed out by tyrants and oppressors as an illustration of the results of liberty. GC88 284.1

When error in one garb has been detected, Satan only masks it in a different disguise, and multitudes receive it as eagerly as at the first. When the people found Romanism to be a deception, and he could not through this agency lead them to transgression of God's law, he urged them to regard all religion as a cheat, and the Bible a fable; and casting aside the divine statutes, they gave themselves up to unbridled iniquity. GC88 285.1

The fatal error which wrought such woe for the inhabitants of France was the ignoring of this one great truth: that true freedom lies within the proscriptions of the law of God. “O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea.” “There is no peace, saith the Lord, unto the wicked.” “But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.”

From: The Great Controversy (1888 ed.)

I like it, but I doubt there is anything in that book that conflicts with the Book of Mormon.
 
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mmksparbud

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"All this was as Satan would have it. This was what for ages he had been working to secure. His policy is deception from first to last, and his steadfast purpose is to bring woe and wretchedness upon men, to deface and defile the workmanship of God, to mar the divine purposes of benevolence and love, and thus cause grief in Heaven. Then by his deceptive arts he blinds the minds of men, and leads them to throw back the blame of his work upon God, as if all this misery were the result of the Creator's plan. In like manner, when those who have been degraded and brutalized through his cruel power achieve their freedom, he urges them on to excesses and atrocities. Then this picture of unbridled license is pointed out by tyrants and oppressors as an illustration of the results of liberty. GC88 284.1

When error in one garb has been detected, Satan only masks it in a different disguise, and multitudes receive it as eagerly as at the first. When the people found Romanism to be a deception, and he could not through this agency lead them to transgression of God's law, he urged them to regard all religion as a cheat, and the Bible a fable; and casting aside the divine statutes, they gave themselves up to unbridled iniquity. GC88 285.1

The fatal error which wrought such woe for the inhabitants of France was the ignoring of this one great truth: that true freedom lies within the proscriptions of the law of God. “O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea.” “There is no peace, saith the Lord, unto the wicked.” “But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.”

From: The Great Controversy (1888 ed.)

I like it, but I doubt there is anything in that book that conflicts with the Book of Mormon.


Very Good---and it isn't written in the Kings English! And a few sentences is not the whole book.
 
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Ran77

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I made no comment to you---nor did I suggest such a thing. I was challanged by Mormons to read the BOM in prayer, which I did and got my answer that it is not of God. When I proposed the same challange to Mormons---they will not---Mormons will not accpt their challange about anyone elses books. Again---I dirrected no comment to you nor did I say anything at all about scripture. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH AND ACCUSE ME OF ANYTHING I DID NOT SAY OR EVEN THINK.
You have done this before, I said I would not direct comments to you again and I have not. so please do not direct any comments to me---- if you address me again, I will simply put you on ignore.

Did you see my comment, "Are you suggesting . . ?" That isn't putting words into your mouth. That is pointing out that you have drawn a comparison between the Book of Mormon challenge and a challenge to do the same with the two books you mentioned. If they are not considered scripture to you, then why make the comparison. As I previously pointed out, we do not make that challenge with other books. Only scripture. You made the comparison. Not me. I just asked for clarification on the matter.

Either you place those books into the category of scripture or you're offering a flawed comparison of unlike things. It's one or the other. I don't care which.

Another point, since our challenge is specifically about our books of scriptures, in order for the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to have not accepted your challenge . . . it would have to pertain to a book of scripture. (Comparing apples to apples and all that.) Have you challenged the members of our church to read the Bible and pray about it? And if you have, what was their response?


Oddly enough, when you posted that you "would not direct comments to (me) again and (you) have not" that's not correct. You actually had to direct a comment to me in order to tell me that. That statement contradicts itself within the same sentence.
 
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mmksparbud

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As far as I can tell there is no conflict with Ellen White's books and the Book of Mormon.

If you had read more of them, you would know they are worlds apart. If they agreed, we would not be debating on here!
 
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He is the way

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mmksparbud

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So where is the disagreement between the Book of Mormon and Ellen's books? In fact her first vision is very similar to Nephi's vision. Of Contrasts, Apologies, and Authenticity: The First Visions of Joseph Smith and Ellen White in Comparison | BYU Studies

Like with your stuff---you do not take a section out of context--her writtings have to be read in their entirty. Not just a sentence here and there and declare them to be no different from yours. I've no doubt I can take a coiple sentences from any of the writings of other churches and say they are no different from yours. Just our name alone shows a major difference. She always pointed to Jesus and never to herself. JS was just the opposite. There is a very distrurbing thing in trying to see how we are alike and ignoring the differences. That is not the way to view things a far as I'm concerned. That it is the way the world will be trying to see things in order to bring about a unity that is what is going to be the norm. It's a way to gently ignore the differfences in order to try and unite evreryone. Leading to the doing away of doctrines that will end up being slowly eliminated. That is what will be tried. I will not go for that. Sound like a goold thing, b ut it is not. I wilol not let go of the doctrines thsat make us differrnt in order to be united. It is unity in Christ, but not by doing away with truth.
 
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He is the way

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Like with your stuff---you do not take a section out of context--her writtings have to be read in their entirty. Not just a sentence here and there and declare them to be no different from yours. I've no doubt I can take a coiple sentences from any of the writings of other churches and say they are no different from yours. Just our name alone shows a major difference. She always pointed to Jesus and never to herself. JS was just the opposite. There is a very distrurbing thing in trying to see how we are alike and ignoring the differences. That is not the way to view things a far as I'm concerned. That it is the way the world will be trying to see things in order to bring about a unity that is what is going to be the norm. It's a way to gently ignore the differfences in order to try and unite evreryone. Leading to the doing away of doctrines that will end up being slowly eliminated. That is what will be tried. I will not go for that. Sound like a goold thing, b ut it is not. I wilol not let go of the doctrines thsat make us differrnt in order to be united. It is unity in Christ, but not by doing away with truth.
Unity in Jesus Christ is a good thing:

(New Testament | John 17:21)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 1:10)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:11 - 15)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

And while it is true that no two people think exactly alike, we can all worship God and keep His commandments. That is unity.
 
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mmksparbud

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Unity in Jesus Christ is a good thing:

(New Testament | John 17:21)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 1:10)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:11 - 15)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

And while it is true that no two people think exactly alike, we can all worship God and keep His commandments. That is unity.

'There is a difference between actual unity, and fake unity based on actually giving up doctrines. That is not unity but copitulation.
 
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He is the way

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'There is a difference between actual unity, and fake unity based on actually giving up doctrines. That is not unity but copitulation.
(Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 11:29 - 41)

29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.
31 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine.
32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.
37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.
38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.
41 Therefore, go forth unto this people, and declare the words which I have spoken, unto the ends of the earth.
 
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Ran77

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On ignore and did not read your post.

I imagine this is directed to me. If I am the "your" in "your post" then another comment has been directed to me, even if you didn't read mine. I don't think the threat involved not reading my posts. Just not responding to them.

It's like when my two youngest boys place their fingers within an inch of the other's face and say, "I'm not touching you."
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Unity in Jesus Christ is a good thing:

(New Testament | John 17:21)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 1:10)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:11 - 15)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

And while it is true that no two people think exactly alike, we can all worship God and keep His commandments. That is unity.

Galatians 4
Easy-to-Read Version
4 This is what I am saying: When young children inherit all that their father owned, they are still no different from his slaves. It doesn’t matter that they own everything. 2 While they are children, they must obey those who are chosen to care for them. But when they reach the age the father set, they are free. 3 It is the same for us. We were once like children, slaves to the useless rules[a] of this world. 4 But when the right time came, God sent his Son, who was born from a woman and lived under the law. 5 God did this so that he could buy the freedom of those who were under the law. God’s purpose was to make us his children.

6 Since you are now God’s children, he has sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts. The Spirit cries out, “ Abba, Father.” 7 Now you are not slaves like before. You are God’s children, and you will receive everything he promised his children.

Paul’s Love for the Galatian Believers
8 In the past you did not know God. You were slaves to gods that were not real. 9 But now you know the true God. Really, though, it is God who knows you. So why do you turn back to the same kind of weak and useless rules you followed before? Do you want to be slaves to those things again? 10-11 It worries me that you follow teachings about special days, months, seasons, and years. I fear that my work for you has been wasted.

12 Brothers and sisters, I became like you. So please become like me. You were very good to me before. 13 You know that I came to you the first time because I was sick. That was when I told the Good News to you. 14 My sickness was a burden to you, but you did not stop showing me respect or make me leave. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel from God. You accepted me as if I were Jesus Christ himself! 15 You were very happy then. Where is that joy now? I can say without a doubt that you would have done anything to help me. If it had been possible, you would have taken out your own eyes and given them to me. 16 Am I now your enemy because I tell you the truth?

17 Those people[c] are working hard to persuade you, but this is not good for you. They want to persuade you to turn against us and work hard for them. 18 It is good for you to work hard, of course, if it is for something good. That’s something you should do whether I am there or not. 19 My little children, I am in pain again over you, like a mother giving birth. I will feel this pain until people can look at you and see Christ. 20 I wish I could be with you now. Then maybe I could change the way I am talking to you. Now I don’t know what to do about you.

The Example of Hagar and Sarah
21 Some of you people want to be under the law. Tell me, do you know what the law says? 22 The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons. The mother of one son was a slave woman, and the mother of the other son was a free woman. 23 Abraham’s son from the slave woman was born in the normal human way. But the son from the free woman was born because of the promise God made to Abraham.

24 This true story makes a picture for us. The two women are like the two agreements between God and his people. One agreement is the law that God made on Mount Sinai. The people who are under this agreement are like slaves. The mother named Hagar is like that agreement. 25 So Hagar is like Mount Sinai in Arabia. She is a picture of the earthly Jewish city of Jerusalem. This city is a slave, and all its people are slaves to the law. 26 But the heavenly Jerusalem that is above is like the free woman, who is our mother. 27 The Scriptures say,

“Be happy, woman—you who cannot have children.
Be glad you never gave birth.
Shout and cry with joy!
You never felt those labor pains.
The woman who is alone[d] will have more children
than the woman who has a husband.”

28 My brothers and sisters, you are children who were born because of God’s promise, just as Isaac was. 29 But the other son of Abraham, who was born in the normal way, caused trouble for the one who was born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same today. 30 But what do the Scriptures say? “Throw out the slave woman and her son! The son of the free woman will receive everything his father has, but the son of the slave woman will receive nothing.”[e] 31 So, my brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman. We are children of the free woman.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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This is a summary of the case that Mrs White was influenced by JS:

"
Connection between Ellen White and Mormonism

Clearly, Ellen Harmon was influenced by William Miller on the subject of the second advent, but who bore the greater influence on her religious views at this time: the Methodist Church or William Miller? Alternatively, was there another powerful influence as yet undiscovered which shaped her work? The Mormons moved into Saco Valley in 1832, and into Portland, Maine, in 1835. Ellen Harmon was only a small child when these events transpired; however, by 1842, when she had her first dream about entering a temple, she was a young lady of fifteen. It is a well-known fact that Ellen had a voracious appetite for reading and “borrowing” thoughts, ideas, and words from others. Is there any evidence that the writings, teachings, and practices of Joseph Smith, the prophet of Mormonism, influenced Ellen White?

Many of Ellen White’s relatives had Mormon connections, and Mormonism was flourishing in the area where Ellen lived in the early years of her life. In 1842, Ellen Harmon’s second cousin, Agnes Moulton Coolbrith Smith, widow of Don Carlos Smith, became a wife of Mormon prophet Joseph Smith at Nauvoo, IL.12

..

JS, 1 Nephi 8:2,9,19,20,24,30,32.

Behold, I have dreamed a dream…

And I also beheld a straight and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron into a large and spacious field…

And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron…

And they did press their way forward continually holding fast to the rod of iron…

Many were lost from his view, wandering into strange roads…

EGW, 2T 594-497

While in Battle Creek in August, 1868, I dreamed…As the path grew more narrow small cords were let down…these we eagerly grasped…exclaiming, “we have hold from above!” The same words were uttered by all the company in the narrow pathway…Where were such now? They were not in the company. At every change, some were left behind. Before us, on the other side of the chasm, was a beautiful field…Nothing I have seen upon earth could compare in beauty and glory with this field.



JS, 1 Nephi 8:26-33

And I …beheld…a great and spacious building…

He saw other multitudes pressing forward…

And he also saw other multitudes feeling their way toward the great and spacious building…

And great was the multitude that did enter that strange building. After they did enter into that building they did point the finger of scorn at me.

EGW, EW 78-79

I dreamed of seeing a temple to which many people were flocking…In my anxiety to reach the temple I did not notice or care for the throng that surrounded me. On entering the building I saw that the vast temple was supported by one immense pillar. Even after entering the building a fear came over me and a sense of shame that I must humiliate myself before these people.



JS 1 Nephi 8:1, 21-23, 28

I have seen a vision…and I saw..

And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceeding great mist of darkness insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost

…and they fell into forbidden paths.

EGW, EW 14; WLF (Word to the Little Flock), p. 14

God has shown me in holy vision…I saw...the light behind them went out leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down in the dark and wicked world below. It was just as impossible for them to get on the path again and go to the City as all the wicked world which God had rejected. They fell all the way along the path.



JS Nephi, 7:16-20

And they did bind me with cords…

But it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord, saying: O, Lord, according to my faith which is in thee, wilt thou deliver me from the hands of my brethren; yea, even give me strength that I may burst these bands with which I am bound.

And it came to pass that when I had said these words, behold, the bands were loosed from off my hands and feet.

EGW, EW 240-242

I saw a number of companies that seemed to be bound together by cords…I heard the voice of earnest, agonizing prayer…then I saw those who had been praying reach out their hands for help and at last they broke the cords that bound them.



If we assume Ellen White was not the real source for much of her writings, one might wonder where she got her false prophecies. Could they have come from the false prophet Joseph Smith?

Joseph Smith predicted the division between the northern states and the southern states on December 25, 1832.

Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; and that time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning in this place. For behold, the southern states shall be divided against the northern states, and the southern states will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations and then war shall be poured out upon all nations. And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters who shall be marshalled and disciplined for war…13

Ellen White appears to follow Joseph Smith’s prediction. She penned the following prediction on January 4, 1862.

I was shown some things in regard to our nation….My attention was called to the Southern rebellion…The system of slavery, which has ruined our nation, is left to live and stir up another rebellion…It seems impossible to have the war conducted successfully…I was shown that if the object of this war had been to exterminate slavery, then, if desired, England would have helped the North…This nation will yet be humbled in the dust. England is studying whether it is best to take advantage of the present weak condition of our nation, and venture to make war upon her. She is weighing the matter, and trying to sound other nations…if England thinks it will pay, she will not hesitate a moment to improve her opportunities to exercise her power, and humble our nation. When [note this prophetic statement] England does declare war, all nations will have an interest of their own to serve, and there will be general war, general confusion.14

Interestingly, Ellen White’s prediction that England would enter the Civil War came nearly 30 years after Joseph Smith wrote his prediction. She easily could have had access to his book Doctrine and Covenants, and the timing of her prophecy—occurring right in the middle of the war—would have been compelling to her flock.

Now let us consider one the most glaring of Ellen White’s false prophecies. She stated that some of the people attending a conference with her would not see death but would live to see Christ come. Could it be possible that even this idea came from the false prophet Joseph Smith—one false prophet following another? On the other hand, perhaps both prophets were following their “angel”—a being that appears to have been a lying angel. Ellen, in fact, received her first vision just a few months after Joseph Smith died. Millerism was growing, but some of the people considering joining the movement had been complaining that the Millerites did not have a living prophet as the Mormons had. One has to wonder if Joseph Smith’s angel became Ellen White’s angel. The fact that both Ellen and Joseph Smith used similar terms to describe those who would supposedly not die before Jesus came lends weight to this possibility—or to the possibility that Ellen depended on Smith’s already-written prophecy for the idea:



JS, 3 Nephi 28:7, 8, 25.

Therefore, more blessed are ye, for ye shall never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of my Father, when I shall come in my glory. And ye shall never endure the pains of death…behold, I was about to write the names of those who were never to taste death, but the Lord forbade; therefore I will write them not, for they are hidden from the world.

EGW, 1 T 131-132; LS 321. (two accounts with some variation)

I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel, “Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.”

At the conference a very solemn vision was given me. I saw that some of those present would be food for worms, some subjects for the seven last plagues, and some would be translated to Heaven at the second coming of Christ without seeing death.



It is our understanding that Ellen White, reminiscent of Joseph Smith’s account, refused to publish the list of those who were present at that meeting who would supposedly not die. Someone did make a list, however, but the list is meaningless as all of those named died many years ago.

In the article “The Adventist Health Message: From Where Did It Come?” in the Spring, 2015, issue of Proclamation! author Cheryl Granger quoted Ellen White’s words:

As our first parents lost Eden through the indulgence of appetite, our only hope of regaining Eden is through a firm denial of appetites and passions.15

Interestingly, this idea reflects the same idea acted out in Mormon initiation rites:

In the Mormon initiation rites, initiates representing Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden stood before the veil in front of the endowment room, the Apostle Peter takes their oaths which lead to enteral life, including “a constant reminder that desires, appetites and passions are to be kept within the bounds the Lord has set”.16

It is of interest that the Genesis account says nothing about appetite or passions. Adam and Eve did not overeat from the tree nor indulge a forbidden appetite; rather, they doubted God’s word and believed the lie of Satan that the fruit would make them wise:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate (Gen. 3:6).

For more comparisons of Ellen White’s statements and those of Joseph Smith, go to:
Truth or Fables EGW_Plagiarizes_Joe_Smith.htm.



Conclusion
"
The Mormon Connection
 
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I Nephi CHAPTER 8

Lehi sees a vision of the tree of life—He partakes of its fruit and desires his family to do likewise—He sees a rod of iron, a strait and narrow path, and the mists of darkness that enshroud men—Sariah, Nephi, and Sam partake of the fruit, but Laman and Lemuel refuse. About 600–592 B.C.

1 And it came to pass that we had gathered together all manner of aseeds of every kind, both of grain of every kind, and also of the seeds of fruit of every kind.

2 And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness he spake unto us, saying: Behold, I have adreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have bseen a cvision.

3 And behold, because of the thing which I have seen, I have reason to rejoice in the Lord because of aNephi and also of Sam; for I have reason to suppose that they, and also many of their seed, will be saved.

4 But behold, aLaman and Lemuel, I fear exceedingly because of you; for behold, methought I saw in my dream, a dark and dreary wilderness.

5 And it came to pass that I saw a aman, and he was dressed in a white brobe; and he came and stood before me.

6 And it came to pass that he spake unto me, and bade me follow him.

7 And it came to pass that as I followed him I beheld myself that I was in a dark and dreary waste.

8 And after I had traveled for the space of many hours in darkness, I began to pray unto the Lord that he would have amercy on me, according to the multitude of his tender mercies.

9 And it came to pass after I had prayed unto the Lord I beheld a large and spacious afield.

10 And it came to pass that I beheld a atree, whose bfruit was desirable to make one chappy.

11 And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the afruit thereof; and I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the bwhiteness that I had ever seen.

12 And as I partook of the fruit thereof it filled my soul with exceedingly great ajoy; wherefore, I began to be bdesirous that my family should partake of it also; for I knew that it was cdesirable above all other fruit.

13 And as I cast my eyes round about, that perhaps I might discover my family also, I beheld a ariver of water; and it ran along, and it was near the tree of which I was partaking the fruit.

14 And I looked to behold from whence it came; and I saw the head thereof a little way off; and at the head thereof I beheld your mother Sariah, and Sam, and aNephi; and they stood as if they knew not whither they should go.

15 And it came to pass that I beckoned unto them; and I also did say unto them with a loud voice that they should come unto me, and partake of the fruit, which was desirable above all other fruit.

16 And it came to pass that they did come unto me and partake of the fruit also.

17 And it came to pass that I was desirous that Laman and Lemuel should come and partake of the fruit also; wherefore, I cast mine eyes towards the head of the river, that perhaps I might see them.

18 And it came to pass that I saw them, but they would anot come unto me and partake of the fruit.

19 And I beheld a arod of iron, and it extended along the bank of the river, and led to the tree by which I stood.

20 And I also beheld a astrait and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood; and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a bworld.

21 And I saw numberless concourses of people, many of whom were apressing forward, that they might obtain the bpath which led unto the tree by which I stood.

22 And it came to pass that they did come forth, and commence in the path which led to the tree.

23 And it came to pass that there arose a amist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were blost.

24 And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, aclinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the bfruit of the tree.

25 And after they had partaken of the fruit of the tree they did cast their eyes about as if they were aashamed.

26 And I also cast my eyes round about, and beheld, on the aother side of the river of water, a great and bspacious building; and it stood as it were in the cair, high above the earth.

27 And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female; and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the aattitude of bmocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit.

28 And after they had atasted of the fruit they were bashamed, because of those that were cscoffing at them; and they dfell away into forbidden paths and were lost.

29 And now I, Nephi, do not speak aall the words of my father.

30 But, to be short in writing, behold, he saw other multitudes pressing forward; and they came and caught hold of the end of the arod of iron; and they did press their way forward, continually holding fast to the rod of iron, until they came forth and fell down and partook of the fruit of the tree.

31 And he also saw other amultitudes feeling their way towards that great and spacious building.

32 And it came to pass that many were drowned in the adepths of the bfountain; and many were lost from his view, wandering in strange roads.

33 And great was the multitude that did enter into that strange building. And after they did enter into that building they did point the finger of ascorn at me and those that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not.

34 These are the words of my father: For as many as aheeded them, had fallen away.

35 And aLaman and Lemuel partook not of the fruit, said my father.

36 And it came to pass after my father had spoken all the words of his dream or vision, which were many, he said unto us, because of these things which he saw in a vision, he exceedingly feared for Laman and Lemuel; yea, he feared lest they should be cast off from the presence of the Lord.

37 And he did aexhort them then with all the feeling of a tender parent, that they would hearken to his words, that perhaps the Lord would be merciful to them, and not cast them off; yea, my father did preach unto them.

38 And after he had preached unto them, and also prophesied unto them of many things, he bade them to keep the commandments of the Lord; and he did cease speaking unto them.
 
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