Church doctrines, the Scripture and reality

FunToLive said:

Hi

I see differences between church doctrines, the Bible and real life. How can people reconcile that?

I’ve been to different churches and listened to what they teach, I’ve read the Bible and have my life experiences.

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One is to always compare anyones teaching with His Word ... and each of us has the personal responsibility to do that. The scriptures interpret themselves, by continuous study and leading from the Holy Spirit .... for understanding.

The only true doctrine is the Holy Bible. Study the life of Jesus ... pattern ourselves after Him ... He is our example in everything.

Any church doctrine should be compared with the Bible ... the Bible is the only authority.

FunToLive said:

Hi

I see differences between church doctrines, the Bible and real life. How can people reconcile that?

I’ve been to different churches and listened to what they teach, I’ve read the Bible and have my life experiences.

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Specifically, what differences are you referring too?

What Does the Bible Say About Divinity Of Jesus?

What Does the Bible Say About Trinity?

FunToLive said:

I don’t look at Scripture as absolute truth and final authority, so with a critical view of the Bible and church doctrines I can see that they often differ.

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suit yourself ;o)

Hi @FunToLive

FunToLive said:

I see differences between church doctrines, the Bible and real life. How can people reconcile that?

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I hear you loud and clear. In general, the church has mad things very messy when interpreting the Bible for their congregants.

I suggest the best way to read the Bible is alone and with no preconceived ideas. Take what it says literally, then you discover the truth. Try your best to forget everything you have learned from the church and man-made tradition. If you get to the same conclusion as what you have been taught in church, fine. But just don’t be bound by it.

I personally listen to only a handful of teachers as the church (in general) is in a bad position today in their doctrine, as prophesied.

Again, read the Bible with no preconceived ideas or images and take it literally. Pray to the Creator each day for Wisdom and, as you read through it, He will lead you to all truth.

May Yahweh bless you on your quest for the truth, in the name of the Messiah Yahushua (Jesus Christ)

I cannot explain the differences between Church doctrine and the Bible, because the Bible is always right and church doctrine can be wrong. The Bible must be understood in light of reality, so they are always completely consistent. As far as the trinity goes, the Bible does not explain how it exists, but does seem to support the idea of it existing. The relationship between the Father, Spirit and Christ might be beyond our understanding and there is nothing to relate to it.

In Genesis 1:26 we see God referring to Himself as “Us” in Daniel 7:13-14 the prophet experienced revelation of the Father ( Ancient of Days) & the Son ( Son of Man) as Persons of the One God ( Deuteronomy 6:4).

In the Gospel of John, the Lord speaks of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit ( called “Comforter” etc.). John 14 is Trinitarian ( John 14:7-11, John 14:15-18). Then John 15:26 indicates the Spirit proceeds from the Father whereas John 1:1 confirms the eternal Father & Son.

There is an account of the ancient patriarch Enoch who walked with God ( Genesis 5:24). A detailed account of this is found in the book of Enoch which is actually in the Bible of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. The Persons of the Ancient of Days & Son of Man Enoch experiences match those that Daniel describes in Daniel 7:13-14. Additionally a Person called The Lord of Spirits is clearly the Holy Spirit. In Enoch 48:2-3 the account clearly expresses 3 divine The Book of Enoch the Prophet: Chapters XLI-LX

This book was clearly compiled before the Virgin Mary gave birth to the Lord & a fragment is quoted by Jude in his brief letter ( Jude 6, Jude Epistle of Jude - Wikipedia

FunToLive said:

Hi

I see differences between church doctrines, the Bible and real life. How can people reconcile that?

I’ve been to different churches and listened to what they teach, I’ve read the Bible and have my life experiences.

Click to expand...

well, i hope you don't take a path that upsets you. for sometimes you must study the answers of yourself...you must find out the rock and heart that sings to you. for example, i have done such a thing recently...and that is posting on christian forums as a non christian. but if you still can't find your path, nothing's at risk. for at least you will be in the stage of careful talking which is beneficial. try to find your own genuine certainty is all i'm saying...

FunToLive said:

List will be very long, and not easy to compile as it’s different for each church and its teaching.

One big surprising thing to me is divinity of Jesus Christ and Trinity.

I don’t see it in the Bible at all, no matter how much I read it. I know there have been theological debates on the matter almost for as long as the church exists, and there are verses used in support or against these doctrines. Just my personal opinion the Bible does not teach it.

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The Trinity is what we're left with when we consider everything the Bible says about God, about Jesus, about the Holy Spirit.

FunToLive said:

One big surprising thing to me is divinity of Jesus Christ and Trinity.

I don’t see it in the Bible at all, no matter how much I read it. I know there have been theological debates on the matter almost for as long as the church exists, and there are verses used in support or against these doctrines. Just my personal opinion the Bible does not teach it.

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Anyone can say Jesus is "God" or not God. But what do they mean? If they do not even know who God really is, it means nothing. My opinion is Jesus did not come to tell us what label to put on Him, but to reveal how God is.

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father," Jesus says > in John 14:6.

So, I have no problem understanding that Jesus is divine.

This is my short answer ^

If you wish to get more into this with me v

Even if I am correct that Jesus is divine and the second Person of the Trinity, therefore what?

How is God? How does He want me to be and to live? Getting the label right is not enough. I need how God wants my character to be. And Jesus is not only someone to label right, but Jesus is our example to follow, including Ephesians 5:2 > how to love. Does this get your attention in connection with what you believe, then????

I offer how Jesus in His Sermon on the Mount starts with how to be; He does not start with people being blessed because we give Him the right label! But we need how God expects us to become >

poor in spirit

merciful

pure in heart

meek

There are ones who claim the Trinity, and there are ones who deny this; and there are people of either claim, who can then take you the wrong way. So, whatever a person claims, therefore what?

If you really believe the Bible does not teach the Trinity, therefore what do you do with this? Are you trying to get out of requirements which Trinitarians put on you? Are you trying to discredit Christianity, by claiming not all agree? What is your motive . . . that you know you have for your motive?

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in the Trinity. Do you want to join Jehovah's Witnesses?

I personally do not spend much time talking with Jehovah's Witnesses about if they think Jesus is God. I listen for what they therefore do, and do they understand that God desires for us to personally submit to how our Father guides us in His peace? > Colossians 3:15 < do they consider our Father to be personal with each of His children? Do they know God's word says our Father wants to guide us personally in His own peace, like I see is commanded by Colossians 3:15? Is this where their attention is going?

If a person claims a belief, then, where after this does the person call your attention? There are ones who call attention to ideas to compare and argue; ones can be very quick to bring attention to a church, or to some one leader, and to things you are told you have to do.

Others bring attention to where God's word guides our attention.

FunToLive said:

One big surprising thing to me is divinity of Jesus Christ and Trinity.

I don’t see it in the Bible at all, no matter how much I read it.

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When you have some time, you may want to check out the below covering the Two Powers of Heaven & Godhead teaching in the Old Testament. It explains why the disciples could accept the divinity of Christ without feeling they were violating the Shema.

Christianity is much simpler than most attempt to make it. Believing in Christ is one thing, following his teaching is something completely different. Love God with all your heart and others as yourself and you have the foundation that Christ taught.
When it come to denominational thinking, flip a coin because the church today isn't what Christ intended it to be.
If you read the bible, look for the spiritual messages, the messages that will improve your life, draw you closer to God, not a denomination.
Don't misunderstand me, I believe Jesus is the messiah, he was 2000 years ago, and is today. Focus on what Jesus taught, Mathew 5 Jesus lays out what God is looking for in each one of us.
John Wesley I believe was a great theologian, he made a comment once "Love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself, all the rest is just commentary." meaning that is the foundation.

FunToLive said:

One big surprising thing to me is divinity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity.

I don’t see it in the Bible at all, no matter how much I read it.

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That surprises me, because the Trinity is suggested and there is no other way to understand what the Bible is saying about God. And as for the divinity of Jesus, that's so well described in a number of different ways that I have to wonder how you could have missed all of it. Jesus not only acts like God but he agrees with people who say he's God and he himself testifies that he IS God. Unfortunately all of that cannot be shown or settled by just posting a verse or two.

FunToLive said:

The problem is, the Bible is more than Mathew 5

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True, do you want to draw close to God or look for debates on what you don't understand about it? The average Christian today don't even know how the bible was put together or anything about Rome during the foundational period of Christianity and the various Christian beliefs at the time.
Like it or not, the bible was put together by humans, inspiration or not, the first counsel had over 1800 people debating what letters should be incorporated into the new testament. The Catholic church came out on top of the heap and turned it into a political tool to control people, they used a group called the Knights of Templar to be their hatched men for those who challenge them. By the way the New Testament wasn't ratified until the 1500s.
There are many truths in the bible and much wisdom to be gained, Jesus said, "seek and you will find."