Stopping Abortion

Mountainmanbob · Oct 8, 2020

Online.Gamer.79 said:
To those can not afford that will go to back alley butchers like they used to.

Instead lets teach birth control, the pill, condoms. My mom and dad told there kids the facts of life but they did not act foolishly and think there teenage children were gonna listen to them or the pastor. So they also taught birth control. They made sure the kids had all the tools to protect themselves.

I found out last night that my friends daughter is giving birth in two weeks and they found out the the child is severally mentally handicapped a good portion of his brain did not form, and has spina biffida. That child is going to have a very short life of pure misery and agony. If they had know in time her daughter would had an abortion.

You pro lifers do not want an abortion for medical reasons, fine how many of you are going to pay for the care of such of child. If your not gonna step up...shut it!

You do not want a rape victim to have an abortion so how many of you are going to care of here medical bills and provide counseling and take that child in. If your not gonna step up...shut it!

Stopping abortion works with education, hormone filled teenagers ignore there pastors and parents all the time, they have been the beginning of time. Educate your kids...don't just give them bible because many teenagers do not pay attention. They think with there hormones'.

And understand there legitimist reasons for one. I do not know any woman who has actually had abortion for willy nilly reason.

Haven't heard of that happening in the US in the last 50 years.
M

Dansiph · Oct 8, 2020

Online.Gamer.79 said:
Okay teenagers are stupid...there minds are going 1000 mph...hormones are pushing the biological. need to mate. I'm 41 I am not ruled by my hormones anymore but when I was teenager I sure was and I also used condoms. And I am not condoning murder...I am saying tell your little brats about condoms and the pill...explain that it is not 100% more like 99%...explain STDs and Pregnancy and hope your kids listens...but knowing teenagers make stupid decisions...make sure there armed with all the tools...pregnancy is not the biggest risk...HIV is...its a lethal disease...you know over a million people die each year from it...I have lost people I love to that disease...people like you...condescending, self-righteous, and judgmental is what drives people away from Christ.

Don't call me those things. If you actually do the math me being 27 years old has a requirement of once being a teenager. Don't keep speaking to me.

Dansiph · Oct 8, 2020

Aspzan said:
Don't call me those things. If you actually do the math me being 27 years old has a requirement of once being a teenager. Don't keep speaking to me.

I reacted badly to your assertions and insults. This is not right and it's becoming a bit too common that I lose my temper then feel bad about it and apologise. Sorry.

But please consider what you're saying next time too, I haven't done anything to warrant those accusations.

Sparagmos · Oct 8, 2020

Aspzan said:
That defintion of insanity is not valid. Also in the West we don't promote waiting until marriage for sex at all. Having an abortion is wrong, whether you're married or not. It's not my fault some people are insane and kill children. Also unless you're willing to produce a child then yes I am promoting abstinence to married people.

The west did promote it, and it didn’t work. If you want to stop abortion, then why wouldn’t you make birth control as accessible as possible to all, as they do in countries with low abortion rates?

Dansiph · Oct 8, 2020

Sparagmos said:
The west did promote it, and it didn’t work. If you want to stop abortion, then why wouldn’t you make birth control as accessible as possible to all, as they do in countries with low abortion rates?

Birth control is accessible in the UK and we have lots of abortion here. I don't think people should have sex if they're not willing to create a child. Why would I promote the means for them to do something I feel goes against Christianity? Even if someone makes the mistake, has sex and the woman is pregnant... They don't have to get an abortion.

Dansiph · Oct 8, 2020

Online.Gamer.79 said:
Albion there is no acknowledgment of the unborn being human in the bible...quite the reverse. You see gods laws are clear...murder is punished by death...if you cause a woman to misarrange you are fined...that means the unborn child was not considered a human. The idiocy is you guys actually think a pregnant woman should try to carry to term a child that is not going to survive....or they would die trying to carry to term. It is why if you have not noticed more and more people are starting to ignore conservatives Christians...mainly because you guys pick choice scripture to justify, racism, bigotry, hate.

You know I am not a Conservative Christian....I am believer in Jesus Christ and God...I believe no one has the right to force there religious or moral beliefs on another....its the biggest reason that Islam along with Christianity are the two most despised religions on the planet.

Exo 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
Exo 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Exo 21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Ectopic Pregnancy and Double Effect

Sparagmos · Oct 8, 2020

Aspzan said:
Birth control is accessible in the UK and we have lots of abortion here. I don't think people should have sex if they're not willing to create a child. Why would I promote the means for them to do something I feel goes against Christianity? Even if someone makes the mistake, has sex and the woman is pregnant... They don't have to get an abortion.

And there you go, this isn’t so much about murdering babies to you as it is about trying to force your sexual morality on others.

Dansiph · Oct 8, 2020

Sparagmos said:
And there you go, this isn’t so much about murdering babies to you as it is about trying to force your sexual morality on others.

No it's about murdering babies. It's called being normal. You actually can't accept people might have a genuine care for the unborn so you come to the conclusion they have bad intentions or are in some way pharisaical. Ridiculous! You're making excuses for people's sin.

I literally said "Even if someone makes the mistake, has sex and the woman is pregnant..." This is something which whilst wrong is not devastating. It's becomes devastating when you kill the child.

Sparagmos · Oct 8, 2020

Aspzan said:
No it's about murdering babies. It's called being normal. You actually can't accept people might have a genuine care for the unborn so you come to the conclusion they have bad intentions or are in some way pharisaical. Ridiculous! You're making excuses for people's sin.

I literally said "Even if someone makes the mistake, has sex and the woman is pregnant..." This is something which whilst wrong is not devastating. It's becomes devastating when you kill the child.

But see below. You basically said that you don’t want to promote birth control, which would prevent abortions, because then people would have sex which goes against your religion. For you, the sex part is more important than the baby part.

Aspzan said:
I don't think people should have sex if they're not willing to create a child. Why would I promote the means for them to do something I feel goes against Christianity?

Albion · Oct 8, 2020

Aspzan said:
I can't open that link in the UK but Catholics for example don't see vasectomies as acceptable. They have a whacky alternative called keeping it in your pants.

That is just a religious policy, binding on no one as a matter of law.

Albion · Oct 8, 2020

pescador said:
There is absolutely NO COMPARISON between murdering an adult and a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy in which the fetus won't survive and the mother might die.

You're the second one here to try to make non-viable fetuses seem to be the issue, which they definitely are not. And now you've added another distraction as well--mother might die.

Few abortions fall into either of those categories, but I'm going to guess that neither you nor the other poster is willing to say that, if an abortion is made legal for these situations you are talking about, YOU WILL NOT AGREE TO THE BANNING OF OTHER ABORTIONS. Am I correct about that?

Albion · Oct 8, 2020

Brightmoon said:
who’s talking about minor discomfort. After all every one knows about morning sickness .

That almost sounds like something from The Babylon Bee.

Kill a viable fetus so that the mother does not have to experience morning sickness??

Really??

:destroyed:

Albion · Oct 8, 2020

Online.Gamer.79 said:
Albion there is no acknowledgment of the unborn being human in the bible...quite the reverse.

You are mistaken. But the best thing I can do that will help you is to refer you to those online websites that you can find by use of a search engine.

Online.Gamer.79 · Oct 8, 2020

Albion said:
You're the second one here to try to make non-viable fetuses seem to be the issue, which they definitely are not. And now you've added another distraction as well--mother might die.

Few abortions fall into either of those categories, but I'm going to guess that neither you nor the other poster is willing to say that, if an abortion is made legal for these situations you are talking about, YOU WILL NOT AGREE TO THE BANNING OF OTHER ABORTIONS. Am I correct about that?

Hey I am not stupid, I know a fetus is a human and I completely agree with no abortion for reasons of convivence. But seriously a woman gets pregnant she can not afford the pregnancy and can not afford to take care of it. Know one is there is to help her...and you expect here to carry it. My mom was 16 when she had me, she was a victim of rape, her family did not help her. She chose!!! to carry me and raise and luckily she met a wonderful guy when I was three and he became my father...but I have pictures of that time...my mom the first three years lived in a hovel. 16 know family or church support, no education, she did what had to do to survive. I found out what she was forced to do by pure accident same with her rape. It is why she could understand and I understand why someone might make that choice...now that does not mean my mom would supported a rape victim waiting till the 8th month of the pregnancy and decide to abort. My mom went to nursing school. The fetus does not start to register things like pain, and conscience till about the 28th week. So in her mind a woman haves 3 or 4 months to make the decision and then after than medical reasons would be the only excuse. There more than 1or 2 reason.

If I was to write law I right it in simple text.

A woman has the right to chose to carry a child to term but she must make that decision by the 4th month or 16 weeks. After that abortion only if the fetus can not survive or the mothers life in danger.

And just to note most abortions happen in the first few months. Most doctors and most women will do a late term abortion save for medical reasons.

Finally providing sex education and birth control for free would majorly lower the abortions that do happen

Quartermaine · Oct 9, 2020

paul1149 said:
I hope you appreciate this, it wasn't easy to come by! I had to do a search for 'birth control failure rates', and then click on the second hit!

is the failure rate due to the product or the lack of education in it's usage? the CDC says the latter.

View attachment 285970

The failure rates are abysmal, because they are yearly and accumulative over the years. [/quote] not according to your chart

The condom is barely better than withdrawal. Five years on the condom and you are almost certain to have a pregnancy, and the younger you are the more chance you won't use it correctly. Five years on the vaunted Pill and you run a 50% chance of pregnancy,

that is really bad math on your part

not to mention what the Pill does to a developing girl's body. How many young people know these things?

maybe that is one reason why it's a prescription medication

Albion · Oct 9, 2020

Online.Gamer.79 said:
Hey I am not stupid, I know a fetus is a human and I completely agree with no abortion for reasons of convivence. But seriously a woman gets pregnant she can not afford the pregnancy and can not afford to take care of it.

Then there is the option of placing the child for adoption!

The notion that we can just kill people because their existence causes us some financial difficulty or obligation is not arguable in a civilized society. And particularly not when that child is the result of a free decision on the part of the would-be mother to have sex.

thecolorsblend · Oct 9, 2020

tulc · Oct 9, 2020

thecolorsblend said:
It's difficult to take that seriously. (snip)

That's probably because the idea of the government controlling mens body to that extent is thought to be ridiculous. But regulating all women's bodies? That's seen as perfectly reasonable.
tulc(because...reasons...) :sigh:

Dansiph · Oct 9, 2020

tulc said:
That's probably because the idea of the government controlling mens body to that extent is thought to be ridiculous. But regulating all women's bodies? That's seen as perfectly reasonable.
tulc(because...reasons...)

You're living in a fantasy world, in reality women are often put on a pedestal. You're also forgetting about the women who don't agree with you.

tulc · Oct 9, 2020

Aspzan said:
You're living in a fantasy world, in reality women are often put on a pedestal.

I suspect they "put them on pedestals" because it's easier to make choices about someone if they're 12 feet up in the air rather than to simply let them make their own decisions about their bodies. All without anyone else thinking they should have a voice/vote about those decisions.

You're also forgetting about the women who don't agree with you.

You mean they wouldn't agree with me saying those women should also be free to make their own decisions about their own bodies? Those women?
tulc(suspects things on pedestals don't get pregnant but women do)

Stopping Abortion

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