Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

sovereigngrace said:

The vast majority of ECFs were Amil. They got there through studying the whole Word. Premils wrongly think Rev is the only book in the Bible.

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Ok, follow ancient amill. I choose The Word of God.

Timtofly said:

Ok, follow ancient amill. I choose The Word of God.

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Read what i actually said and showed where they got their truth.

sovereigngrace said:

Read what i actually said and showed where they got their truth.

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I was asking you. You accept their teaching. I think the Bible has more to say, and you did not even answer my question, but deflected to amill theology and not God's Word.

Timtofly said:

I was asking you. You accept their teaching. I think the Bible has more to say, and you did not even answer my question, but deflected to amill theology and not God's Word.

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Millennium Questions:

Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?


Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on the earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for dead mortals many years after His Second Coming?


Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.


Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?


How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?


What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?


Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15?


Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our "mother" in Galatians 4:24-31?


Who is the king of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:11?
Based on Revelation 9:14, have some of the angels already been bound in some manner?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation chapter 11, where is the beast now?


Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?


Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?


What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:1-16?


Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?


What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief, in 2 Peter 3:1-13?


Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?

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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?



Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


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BABerean2 said:

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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?



Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


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Now if only you could provide some correlation between Revelation 20:1-6 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation, we might actually be getting somewhere finally. Some of what you submitted, such as from ch 18, could simply correlate with why satan is bound to begin with, and not when he is loosed instead. Either scenario is possible. What might help to settle this is to provide correlation between Revelation 20:1-6 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation.

Such as the following.

1)---And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

2)---And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

3)---And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

4)---and I saw the souls of them that---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

5)---and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This is the first resurrection

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

6)---But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

7)---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?


As to me, I can only find correlation between 4) and 6) and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation.
What about you? Can you do better than that?

As to 4) that correlates with the 42 month reign of the beast. As to 6) that correlates with Revelation 19:21, for one. They are certainly literally dead as of that verse. Which means they won't be living during the thousand years for certain, thus they are some of the rest of the dead meant in Revelation 20:5.

sovereigngrace said:

This is insane hermeneutics. You must have about 7 second comings, 4 judgment days, 3 destructions of babylon, end of the worlds and time. This is a good reason why Premil should be swiftly rejected as non-corroborative and extra-biblical. This false teaching is forcing a square peg in to a round hole.

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All you are really telling us is that you have little understanding of the book of Revelation. This is JOHN'S and the HOLY SPIRIT'S "hermeneutic." By simple counting, there will be ONE (1) second coming, (just before wrath: 6th seal) and ONE (1) third coming (as shown in chapter 19).

Judgment and wrath will BEGIN at the 6th seal start of the Day of His wrath. Why would anyone who calls themselves a "believer" who would not believe, but rejects John's simple language is beyond me. What John shows us is a straight through chronology, starting before Christ ascended. After all, it is HIS Revelation.

How amazing that a brief summary of each chapter is denied and called "extra-biblical," and "false teaching." What I wrote came right out of the pages of my bible! How then could it be "extra?" You have certainly "located" yourself here.

Now, can you use scripture to prove what you say? You said "Revelation is not chronological." I just proved it IS chronological and makes perfect sense in the order John wrote. You say no - so prove it.

You say what I wrote is extra biblical. Prove it. it seems that is a lot of rambling in your posts, but very little solid exegesis.

DavidPT said:

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Such as the following.

1)---And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

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1. Think about this: in 1939 Germany invaded Poland.
2. In 1945 the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan.

Does #2 "correlate" with #1? One could possibly find remote correlation, as in both are in the same war, but one event is YEARS past the other event.

How then can something still in our future (events of Rev. 20) correlate with events in our past - except they will all happen on planet earth.

In other words, why expect correlation when common sense tells us there will be none?

Do you not believe there will be a "river of life" in the Holy City, because it is written only once?
Do you deny the streets made of gold because that verse does not correlate with another?

BABerean2 said:

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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

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1. Think about this: in 1939 Germany invaded Poland.
2. In 1945 the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan.

Does #2 "correlate" with #1? One could possibly find remote correlation, as in both are in the same war, but one event is YEARS past the other event.

How then can something still in our future (events of Rev. 20) correlate with events in our past - except they will all happen on planet earth.

In other words, why expect correlation when common sense tells us there will be none?

Do you not believe there will be a "river of life" in the Holy City, because it is written only once?
Do you deny the streets made of gold because that verse does not correlate with another?
Do you deny a Holy City approximately 1500 miles square because it does not correlate with any other scripture?

sovereigngrace said:

Premils wrongly think Rev is the only book in the Bible.

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Why do you write such nonsense?

sovereigngrace said:

They grasped what modern Premils cannot, that Revelation is a figurative book, consisting of various recaps pertaining to the intra-Advent period.

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YOu make a lot of bold statements, but are careful to make statements that cannot be proven either way. For example; WHO SAID "Revelation is a figurative book." WHO SAID "various recaps?" As far as I know, only you.

BABerean2 said:

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.



Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

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Good verses, one and all - but we all have scriptures at home. What then is your purpose?

iamlamad said:

Good verses, one and all - but we all have scriptures at home. What then is your purpose?

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The purpose was to show how much you added to, and took away from, Revelation chapter 16 in your summary of the chapter.

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iamlamad said:

1. Think about this: in 1939 Germany invaded Poland.
2. In 1945 the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan.

Does #2 "correlate" with #1? One could possibly find remote correlation, as in both are in the same war, but one event is YEARS past the other event.

How then can something still in our future (events of Rev. 20) correlate with events in our past - except they will all happen on planet earth.

In other words, why expect correlation when common sense tells us there will be none?

Do you not believe there will be a "river of life" in the Holy City, because it is written only once?
Do you deny the streets made of gold because that verse does not correlate with another?
Do you deny a Holy City approximately 1500 miles square because it does not correlate with any other scripture?

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Do you deny there are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of the judgment of the living in Matthew 25:31-46?

Do you deny that Paul said Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and the fire comes at the end of Revelation 20?

Do you deny that Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing in 2 Timothy 4:1, and the judgment of the dead comes at the end of Revelation 20?


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DavidPT said:

1)---And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

What does this correlate with in earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

2)---And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled

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OK. What do we find below?


Rev_1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Rev_9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
(Based on Revelation 1:20 the word "star" is used as a symbol of angels in the Revelation.)

Above we have a reference to an angel with the key to the bottomless pit, just like that in Revelation 20.


Rev_9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
(The bottomless pit is opened in the verse above.)


Rev_9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (Apollyon means "destroyer")
Above we have angels who are already in the bottomless pit.
Who is the head angel of the bottomless pit?


A summary of Revelation 9 reveals an angel with a key to the bottomless pit, and he opens the bottomless pit. Why did the angel have to use the key to open the bottomless pit, unless it had been locked previously?

Is Satan the king of the wicked angels?

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Rev_11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(Here the beast comes up out of the pit to make war with the witnesses, who based on Revelation 11:4, and Revelation 1:20, and Romans 11, are a symbol of the Church.)


Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
(Here we have the beast ascending out of the pit again, just like in Revelation 11. Once again, this proves the book is not in chronological order.)

Are humans found in the bottomless pit?

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iamlamad said:

All you are really telling us is that you have little understanding of the book of Revelation. This is JOHN'S and the HOLY SPIRIT'S "hermeneutic." By simple counting, there will be ONE (1) second coming, (just before wrath: 6th seal) and ONE (1) third coming (as shown in chapter 19).

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That is totally wrong. Revelation is not a chronological unfolding of end-time events, but is a series of recapitulations or retelling of events that culminate in the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 6-22 consists of a number of figurative prophetic parallels (seven in total) revealing the overall battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. They relate, like every other New Testament book, to the period running between the first and Second Advents. Significantly, the conclusion of each parallel terminates with a record of the glorious Second Advent, which includes the rescue of His saint and the final destruction of the wicked.

Parallels are simply different camera views of the same corresponding intra-Advent period which look at different aspects of the great battle between darkness and light.

I will focus in on the end of each cycle that I have proposed as time and space doesn’t allow me to perform a complete exposition of Revelation.

CYCLE 1 (received on Patmos)

Seven Churches (Ch 2-3).

Although addressed to 7 local churches to sort out local problems. The constant theme of the Coming Christ and His kingdom pervades throughout.

CYCLE 2 (received in heaven)

Seven Seals (Ch 6-8:1)

The seventh seal is silence in response to the destruction of the world in the sixth seal.

Revelation 6:12-7:17 gives us the detail of the sixth seal. The first part of the seal (that which is contained within Revelation 6) is given over to describing the wrath of ‘the day of the Lord’ and His judgment upon the wicked. Whereas, the second part of the seal (which takes up the whole of Revelation 7) is given over to describing that which relates to the elect of God on the day of the Lord – the day of His Second Coming.

The first aspect, is outlined in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Before the aforementioned destruction is implemented the Lord has to instigate an important deliverance. We find this in the second part of the sixth seal found in Revelation 7:1-4,which says, “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”

The awful destruction outlined in Revelation 6 CANNOT be perfected until the righteous are totally and completely saved.

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

The End!!!

CYCLE 3 (received in heaven)

Seven Trumpets (Ch 8:6-10:7)

Previously in Scripture we have learnt that the coming of the Lord is ushered in by the sound of the trumpet. By clear implication, if the last trump relates to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ there must be others that precede it. Revelation seems to support this weighty inference. Moreover, the seven trumpets outlined in Revelation chapters 8 to 10 are the ONLY set of prophetic trumpets in Scripture.

Revelation 10:1-4 declares, describing the seventh trumpet, “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.”

The symbolism and authority surrounding this great heavenly angel proves beyond a doubt that it is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ and a picture of His glorious Second Coming.

Revelation 10:5-7 says of the Second Advent and the concluding last trumpet, “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

At the last trumpet, Christ will “reward” the saints and “destroy” the wicked. It is “the time of the dead, that they should be judged.” One wonders how anyone could not see a general resurrection of the dead here in order to enable a general judgment.

The End!!!

The King James Version interprets the passage correctly:

“chronos ouketi estai”

time - no longer – there shall be

The interpretation of these Greek words in this passage is in clear and absolute agreement with their usage everywhere else in Scripture. Those who interpret it otherwise probably do so to explain away the undoubted finality of the second coming.

Anyway, the whole import of the rest of the passage perfectly confirms the all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, saying, “when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of god should be finished.”

Revelation 11:15-17 makes reference to the seventh angel with the last trump, again being in complete agreement with consistent New Testament teaching (including Revelation 10) on this single, final, all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, saying, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.”

The next verse, verse 18 then reveals how the Second Advent ushers in the general judgment, saying, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest (1) give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest (2) destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

The End!!!

The unquestionable finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump - the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” NOT for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.”

CYCLE 4 (received in heaven)

The Church and its onslaught from the devil (Ch 12) including a parallel view of the beast’s (the world anti-Christ system – intra-advent) persecution of the elect (Ch 13) and the simultaneous joy of the redeemed (Ch 14) in heaven (Ch 12-14).

Revelation 14:14-20 says, “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man (Christ), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; For the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud (Christ) thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.”

The End!!!

CYCLE 5 (received in heaven)

Seven Vials (Ch 16)

If our supposition is to fit perfectly, the final vial, in keeping with the final trumpet, must be an unmistakable description of the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and the rapture of the saints. Similarly, it must also be a solemn picture of the outpouring of God’s wrath upon the wicked and the end of the world.

Revelation 16:17-21 declares, “And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, ‘It is done’ (or Gegonen). And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.”

The End!!!

CYCLE 6 (received in heaven)

Babylon (17-19)

John’s attention is then brought to wrath aspect of the day of the Lord. Firstly, we see the heavenly army of God described. Verses 11- say, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword (the Word of God), that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall poimaino (or ‘shepherd’) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Revelation 19:17-21 continues, “And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant (or those left behind) were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

The End!!!

Those who hold the Premillennialist position often advance this passage as support for their mistaken view that Christ is coming back to this earth to reign for a thousand years. However, the word poimaino in this reading which is rendered “rule” in the AV, carries the consistent meaning of Shepherd and shepherding in Scripture.

The picture here is of a Shepherd with a rod. However, this is NO ordinary Shepherd with NO ordinary rod. The Shepherd here is Christ, and He is coming in His wrath at the end of this age to deal with the wicked thus the significance of the rod of iron. He is a jealous Shepherd who is finally coming to destroy those that have attacked His sheep. The shepherding is clearly associated with the FINAL separation.

CYCLE 7 (received in heaven)

The figurative binding of Satan from the cross and the victorious reign of the saints in heaven. The ushering in of the New Heaven and the New Earth (Ch 20-22).

Here we have a great spiritual assault upon the Church just prior to the end. In keeping with the rest of Scripture, fire comes down from heaven and devours the wicked.

Revelation 20:8-10 declares, “And [Satan] shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

Revelation 20:11-15 says, “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

CONCLUSION

I don’t believe any open-minded objective Bible student could arrive at any conclusion other than the fact that Revelation is a number of similar parallels taking us up to the Second Advent (the day of God’s wrath) and the end of the world (when time shall undoubtedly be no more). This pattern happens repeatedly through the New Testament. Also, they are clearly intra-advent.

iamlamad said:

YOu make a lot of bold statements, but are careful to make statements that cannot be proven either way. For example; WHO SAID "Revelation is a figurative book." WHO SAID "various recaps?" As far as I know, only you.

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You cannot seem to even accept and understand the very first introductory verse that tells us what the genre is. You seem to have no grasp of apocalyptic language. That is why your doctrine contradicts so much other Scripture and lacks any other biblical support.

Revelation 1:1 says, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified (or semaino) it by his angel unto his servant John.”

The order: God - Christ - Angel – (signified or symbolized) John

This Greek word semaino is found seven times in the New Testament and is interpreted as follows in the King James Version:

Signs (John 4:48)
Signify (Acts 25:27)
Signifying (John 12:33, 18:32, 21:19)
Signified (Acts 11:28; Revelation 1:1)

BABerean2 said:

Millennium Questions:

Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?


Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on the earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for dead mortals many years after His Second Coming?


Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.


Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?


How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?


What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?


Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15?


Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our "mother" in Galatians 4:24-31?


Who is the king of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:11?
Based on Revelation 9:14, have some of the angels already been bound in some manner?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation chapter 11, where is the beast now?


Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?


Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?


What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:1-16?


Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?


What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief, in 2 Peter 3:1-13?


Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?

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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?



Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


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I already answered. Yet get no answers to the questions I have presented. Has Satan ever decieved the Nations?

BABerean2 said:

The purpose was to show how much you added to, and took away from, Revelation chapter 16 in your summary of the chapter.

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WHEN will you learn? We don't form end time doctrine from isolated pages (such as one chapter in one book) but rather from EVERY end time verse found in the scriptures. For example, John saw the raptured church in heaven, in chapter 7, but we get most of our information about the rapture from Paul, for Paul is the only one that got the revelation of the rapture.

If you disagree, please pick out one chapter and point out my error in that chapter.

BABerean2 said:

OK. What do we find below?


Rev_1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Rev_9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
(Based on Revelation 1:20 the word "star" is used as a symbol of angels in the Revelation.)

Above we have a reference to an angel with the key to the bottomless pit, just like that in Revelation 20.


Rev_9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
(The bottomless pit is opened in the verse above.)


Rev_9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (Apollyon means "destroyer")
Above we have angels who are already in the bottomless pit.
Who is the head angel of the bottomless pit?


A summary of Revelation 9 reveals an angel with a key to the bottomless pit, and he opens the bottomless pit. Why did the angel have to use the key to open the bottomless pit, unless it had been locked previously?

Is Satan the king of the wicked angels?

.................................................


Rev_11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(Here the beast comes up out of the pit to make war with the witnesses, who based on Revelation 11:4, and Revelation 1:20, and Romans 11, are a symbol of the Church.)


Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
(Here we have the beast ascending out of the pit again, just like in Revelation 11. Once again, this proves the book is not in chronological order.)

Are humans found in the bottomless pit?

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A location does not determine chronology. Going in and out of the pit does not show chronology either. All Revelation shows is that the beast can come and go as it pleases. If the pit is opened, then humans can see what happens as well. Your pointing out figurative acts as literal when you please is how you get your chronology out of sync. Can humans see things coming out of the pit, now or in the past, or is that still future? Opening the pit has nothing to do with Satan be bound, which is still future as well. Chapter 12 is the only chapter that goes back literally into the past. Revelation is not chronologically challenged as many here tend to think. Your interpretation is chronologically challenged, because you fit a scenario that does not work.

Opening the pit is only so humanity can see into the abyss. Has this ever happened in past history?

Has the beast come in and out of the pit, over the last 6000 years? When was the pit even occupied? Revelation does not cover the past, because John was given future revelation. Except the point of Jesus Birth which was present revelation to the 1st century. The pit has been around since God created the heavens and earth, or at least the Flood, but we were never told the specifics until Revelation and a future incident. Trying to make a history lesson of the pit as mentioned in Revelation is extra biblical assumptions. The pit was not opened in the 1st century, and neither was Satan bound in the pit in the 1st century. Revelation can only be read as a future event at the end of the time of the church on earth. The church is complete and presented to God in Revelation 6. The next time we see the church is in the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21. So chapters 8 to 20 have nothing to do with the church; not literally, figuratively, nor historically (recap). Calling the harlot mentioned, the church, is twisted logic. That bunch stopped being the church, when she became a harlot. There is no coming back from being a reprobate. This does not mean there are not believers in every theological system on earth. It means what they are taught is offensive to God. Salvation comes from the Holy Spirit not theology, Thank God!

sovereigngrace said:

You cannot seem to even accept and understand the very first introductory verse that tells us what the genre is. You seem to have no grasp of apocalyptic language. That is why your doctrine contradicts so much other Scripture and lacks any other biblical support.

Revelation 1:1 says, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified (or semaino) it by his angel unto his servant John.”

The order: God - Christ - Angel – (signified or symbolized) John

This Greek word semaino is found seven times in the New Testament and is interpreted as follows in the King James Version:

Signs (John 4:48)
Signify (Acts 25:27)
Signifying (John 12:33, 18:32, 21:19)
Signified (Acts 11:28; Revelation 1:1)

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You cannot seem to even accept and understand the very first introductory verse that tells us what the genre is. You start out most posts by criticizing the poster. Why is that? I know! You think you are the only one here with TRUTH. Well, that is your opinion. The ONLY reason you would say this is because what I write disagrees with your preconceived theories. What if it is YOU who are mistaken? The truth is, there is NOTHING in 1:1 that says the entire book is figurative or symbolic. Just the opposite is true, the book is to SHOW what the future is. Some people make a big thing about the word "signify." It only means "to indicate" or "to make known.

Act 25:27 For it seemeth to me unreasonable to send a prisoner, and not withal to signify G4591 the crimes laid against him. [to indicate or show the crimes]

Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified G4591 by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. [to indicate or show what the Spirit said]

Jhn 21:19 This spake he, signifying G4591 by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. [To indicate or show by what death]

Jhn 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying G4591 what death he should die. [To indicate or show by what death]

Jhn 12:33 This he said, signifying G4591 what death he should die. [To indicate or show by what death]

We all have access to Strongs. I guess you missed that John 4:48 uses a DIFFERENT word. They both have the same root word, but these are two different words: "sēmainō" a verb and "sēmeion," a noun.

Don't try to make this complicated: the book is to SHOW, to indicate to the church what is coming in the future. Some of it - NOT ALL - is symbolic. We know a beast does not normally have seven heads. We all SHOULD know that God can write "a thousand" and mean it as 1000 years.

You seem to have no grasp of apocalyptic language. Again, the reason you say such things is because you imagine you have truth and everyone else has fables. It may well be, others here have a better grasp of apocalyptic language that you do. I understand, typically putting others down makes a writer feel better.

20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Why try to make something that is translated into simple English into "apocalyptic language?" The truth is, there is NOTHING "apocalyptic" about this verse. I doubt seriously if you can find an English translation anywhere that does not include a thousand years. Untold millions of believers read that and believe it means a thousand years. They don't even question it. Others though, struggle with it, and WONDER: can it really mean one thousand years? Can you find a verse that contradicts this simple prediction?

That is why your doctrine contradicts so much other Scripture This is personal opinion and cannot be proven. Oh, it may contradict what some IMAGINE is the truth of scripture, due to their preconceptions. I believe John when He tells us that Satan WILL BE bound for a thousand years. I have enough common sense to recognize that Satan is IN NO WAY "bound" today.