Once saved always saved. False?

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BrotherJJ

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Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Salvation

(b) of the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted immediately by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, Acts 4:12 , and upon confession of Him as Lord, Romans 10:10 ; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Romans 1:16 ; Ephesians 1:13 (see further under SAVE);

(MY NOTE: "Eternal deliverance granted immediately" by God to those who accept His conditions of sin confession & faith in the Lord Jesus)

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit is salvations eternal SEAL (2 Cor 1:22, 2 Tim 1:14, 2 Cor 5:5, Eph 4:30)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a deposit/pledge. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring.")

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph 1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down paymnt/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

1 Jn 5:13 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(NOTE: That you may know ""PRESENT TENSE"" that you have eternal life)

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(NOTE: God doesn't go back on His Word or Promised gifts)
 
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GDL

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Obviously you do not understand Hebrews and the term salvation.

And obviously all you can do is make such allegations with nothing to back them up.

Why don't you teach us about Hebrews & Salvation, and let the discussions begin? And please use Scripture.
 
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GDL

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(MY NOTE: "Eternal deliverance granted immediately" by God to those who accept His conditions of sin confession & faith in the Lord Jesus)

You'll find several disagreements on Vine's supposed definition - which by the way is a theological interpretation and not a dictionary definition.
 
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GDL

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While I've read many people saying essentially the same thing, I don't see where Eternal Security (OSAS) and knowing for certain that you are saved are dependent upon each other.

Some will disagree with you that ES & OSAS are the same thing. I'm one of them.
 
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Albion

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Some will disagree with you that ES & OSAS are the same thing. I'm one of them.
Is there any explanation about how these two different things can be "the same thing?"

Or is it just that you prefer to assign your own definitions to them?
 
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5thKingdom

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And you have to read the previous verse before it.

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” (John 10:27).​

So eternal life is only true conditioned on whether one follows Jesus or not.


John 10:27 only PROMISES that all the elect "follow Him"
We see this promise in many passages. Moreover, it is PART
of a passage that begins with what happens to those who are
NOT ELECTED to be "His sheep" (John 10:26) and THEN is
contrasted by those who ARE ELECTED to be "His sheep"


Those NEVER MEANT to be saved:


Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Those ALWAYS MEANT to be saved:


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Jim
 
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GDL

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Is there any explanation about how these two different things can be "the same thing?"

Or is it just that you prefer to assign your own definitions to them?

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly:

While I've read many people saying essentially the same thing, I don't see where Eternal Security (OSAS) and knowing for certain that you are saved are dependent upon each other.

You correlate ES with OSAS. I don't think they're the same. So, what's your first question mean?

Here's my take (and the take of some others I have read):

Eternal Security is what the Lord promises to those who are His - those who believe He is the Christ, hear & follow Him, obey Him, and remain in Him....

OSAS means one can believe, fall away, never repent & return, but is still "saved."

I'm fine if you want to equate them, but then we'd need to have an understanding of our differing terminologies in order to have a discussion without unnecessary confusion.
 
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GDL

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He that endures to the end shall be saved.

Although you seem to have put forth some interesting work on Matt24:13, have you done the same work on the concept of endurance as you think it does relate to us? By what you've shown, it seems you would have.

Is endurance a necessary part of the Christian life?
 
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Albion

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Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly:

You correlate ES with OSAS. I don't think they're the same. So, what's your first question mean?
I do NOT correlate ES with OSAS.

As I look back through the posts, it looks like there may have been some misunderstanding of what you meant to say, and also some misunderstanding of what I said. In any case, I do not believe ES and OSAS to be the same thing and neither do you, so that's resolved. :)
 
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GDL

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As I look back through the posts, it looks like there may have been some misunderstanding of what you meant to say, and also some misunderstanding of what I said. In any case, I do not believe ES and OSAS to be the same thing and neither do you, so that's resolved

Thanks for clarifying. Resolutions are good!
 
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John 10:27 only PROMISES that all the elect "follow Him"
We see this promise in many passages. Moreover, it is PART
of a passage that begins with what happens to those who are
NOT ELECTED to be "His sheep" (John 10:26) and THEN is
contrasted by those who ARE ELECTED to be "His sheep"


Those NEVER MEANT to be saved:


Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Those ALWAYS MEANT to be saved:


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Jim

So Jim, do you and or those who believe as you do following Jesus?
Can a believer sin and still be saved?

It also sounds like you believe in Calvinism.
If so, how does one know they are one of the Elect?
If so, why did God change His mind about bringing wrath or judgment upon the Ninevites when He had seen that they had forsaken their evil ways? They were told by Jonah that they would be destroyed in 40 days. Yet, that did not happen. Surely God did not need Jonah to warn them. God could have just snapped His fingers and boom.... they would be Elect. But that is not what we read in the story of Jonah.

Side Note:

John MacArthur (a Calvinist) believes that a believer who is a suicide victim will be in Heaven. As a result of this teaching in his church, Kenneth Nally took his own life and his family sued the church. MacArthur did not apologize for this false teaching, but he actually doubled down and admitted that is what he and his followers believe.
 
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Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Salvation

(b) of the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted immediately by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, Acts 4:12 , and upon confession of Him as Lord, Romans 10:10 ; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Romans 1:16 ; Ephesians 1:13 (see further under SAVE);

(MY NOTE: "Eternal deliverance granted immediately" by God to those who accept His conditions of sin confession & faith in the Lord Jesus)

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit is salvations eternal SEAL (2 Cor 1:22, 2 Tim 1:14, 2 Cor 5:5, Eph 4:30)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a deposit/pledge. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring.")

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph 1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down paymnt/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

1 Jn 5:13 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(NOTE: That you may know ""PRESENT TENSE"" that you have eternal life)

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(NOTE: God doesn't go back on His Word or Promised gifts)

Not surprising. This is taught in the majority of churches. Hence it is the wide gate path. Verses like these are taken out of context to justify that one can sin and still be saved and not so as to live a holy life. Take for example 2 Corinthians that you quote from.

In 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJB) says,
“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”

Also, you quote from the 1st epistle of John. Yet, his epistle also says this:

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
(1 John 2:4) (KJB).

What truth is not in them if they do not keep His commandments?

Jesus. For Jesus is the way the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

If they do not have Jesus, then they do not have life. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life (1 John 5:12).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10) (KJB).
 
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Albion

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Not surprising. This is taught in the majority of churches. Hence it is the wide gate path. Verses like these are taken out of context to justify that one can sin and still be saved and not so as to live a holy life.
You're mixing two different ideas there. SOME PEOPLE misunderstand the concept, just as there are people who misunderstand almost every other Christian doctrine.

But that doesn't mean that the concept, the teaching, is wrong...or that the churches support the mistaken beliefs of the individuals who leap to the wrong conclusion when learning about Eternal Security and/or Justification by Faith.
 
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Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

Man can't tell, but God/Christ can only search the Heart/Soul and mind of a believer. Christ will be the ultimate judge at the end. If you honestly have given your life over to Christ, he will help you in finishing your Salvation. If its simply a whimsical plea you've made for something other than serving him as best as you can on earth, he'll not help you grow, mature and get through the difficult times in life.

If you have gave your life over to him, he'll provide a method of escape for your trials in life. You'll not even know what that escape method is, but it will surprise you. A minister could show up at your door when your in distress, another believer could give you a phone call, you could be asked to attend a prayer meeting, etc, etc.....

We're not all called to be apostle Paul's who could travel everywhere, powered from above, go through so much affliction and finish what Christ wanted him to do on earth, but we're called to do something for the furtherance of the Gospel.

God Bless.
 
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You're mixing two different ideas there. SOME PEOPLE misunderstand the concept, just as there are people who misunderstand almost every other Christian doctrine.

But that doesn't mean that the concept, the teaching, is wrong...or that the churches support the mistaken beliefs of the individuals who leap to the wrong conclusion when learning about Eternal Security and/or Justification by Faith.

All forms of Eternal Security are unbiblical. Even the version that very few believe in that says one must live holy or they were never born to begin with. But even in this group, I have discovered that while they say that a believer must generally live a holy life, they have admitted that if a believer looked at a woman in lust, and then they got hit by a bus, they would be saved (as long as they generally lived a holy life). But this is making room for justifying a little bit of sin. Remember, it only took one sin to cause the Fall of mankind. Granted, I do not believe all sin is the same. I believe there are mortal sins (grievous sin), and non-mortal sins.
 
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You're mixing two different ideas there. SOME PEOPLE misunderstand the concept, just as there are people who misunderstand almost every other Christian doctrine.

But that doesn't mean that the concept, the teaching, is wrong...or that the churches support the mistaken beliefs of the individuals who leap to the wrong conclusion when learning about Eternal Security and/or Justification by Faith.

How can I prove all forms of Eternal Security are unbiblical?

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).


We are told to:

  1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

  2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

  3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

To tell us to do these things when we are eternally secure and nothing can effect our grace, faith, and goodness in God is illogical.
 
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Some will disagree with you that ES & OSAS are the same thing. I'm one of them.

Those who are in the OSAS camp and justify lots of sin do not see any difference between Eternal Security and Once Saved Always Saved. The definitions are synonymous for them. So why hold on to a term that is associated with those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality? I will tell you why. It's because both beliefs justify sin on some level. Was King David saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Do you believe a Christian can look upon a woman in lust and get hit by a bus and die and still be saved (as long as they generally lived a holy life)? Or did that one unconfessed sin keep them out of Heaven?
 
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