Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

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helmut

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Keeping the Sabbath isn't a convenience ... it's in the heart of the 10 commandments.
Who says that?

Choose to follow the Lamb ..... or not.
Jesus did not even call the 10 commandments the heart of the law. The heart of the law (or in Biblical terminology: The highest law) are the commandments to love God more than anything or anybody else, and to love the "neighbor" as oneself.

At some points Jesus quoted out of the 10 commandments, but never the 4th commandment.

So following the lamb means to abandon the false teaching of the 4th command being a "heart" of laws. Anything else is hypocrisy (saying that, in addition to other [more important] laws, we should keep also the sabbath, is somewhat different, though nothing what I can see when looking into the whole Bible and not just some selected verses).
 
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eleos1954

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I can't see any reference to a significance why the rest on the 7th day was not called very good. Can you please make your logic more transparent?

I asked a serious question: I don't know whether this is of any significance. But an "answer" which does not signify what I asked for is no answer to my question.

But I have some more questions and comments to what you wrote:


I can't find this in the passage you quoted (for some reason unrelated to this thread, I studied it recently in some detail).

The crucial statement is: "They did not enter because of their unbelief" (Hb 3:19). Instead of trusting God and conquering the country, the people wept the whole night because they said the inhabitants were too strong to be fought against (see the OT passage the Psalm cited in Hebrews refers to). The disobedience was a result of unbelief.

Whenever I look in the Bible about a link of belief and Sabbath, all I find hints to a sort of contrast, not identity between them. Can you give any Biblical reference which makes it possible to interpret the passage in the way you did?


But the rest mentioned in Hb 4:9 is another rest - is is not a Sabbath, but a sabbatismos. The difference between Sabbath and sabbatismos is not specified by language, so it is a matter of exegesis. The best explanation I know is: Spiritual, not physical rest. We are not expected to conquer the promised land and exterminate the Canaanites literally, nor are we required to undergo literal circumcision, but we have to conquer, kill (Col, 3:5!) and be circumcised spiritually. in analogy, we do not need to rest physically, but should enter into spiritual rest, Heb 4:10. Those who still labor in works (including obeying the Sabbath rest) have not yet entered into the rest of Hebrew 4:10.


He said this when he did a work (a healing) on sabbath and was criticized for breaking the Sabbath rest. What does this tell us about the way we should enjoy the rest (sabbatismos) prepared for us by God?


I can't see any reference to a significance why the rest on the 7th day was not called very good. Can you please make your logic more transparent?

He created the day .... blessed it and sanctified it (made it HOLY) ... set it apart ... just as we are being sanctified (being made Holy) set apart .... so the day He created is set apart ... set apart from what? from all other days. Ponder this ... how important is it when God sanctifies something or someone?

He said this when he did a work (a healing) on sabbath and was criticized for breaking the Sabbath rest. What does this tell us about the way we should enjoy the rest (sabbatismos) prepared for us by God?

The clergy of those days had added their own "rules" regarding the 7th day Sabbath. They accused Him in according to what they had put in place. Jesus corrected them and told them it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

Here are some points to consider ...

  1. The Creator blessed the seventh day. (Genesis 2:3.)
  2. He sanctified the seventh day. (Exodus 20:11.)
  3. He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 2:1-3.)
  4. It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type; for types were not introduced till after the fall.
  5. Jesus says it was made for man (Mark 2:27), that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the Jew.
  6. It is a memorial of creation. (Exodus 20:11; 31:17.) Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event. We worship Him as the creator.
  7. It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.)
  8. Hence through him, as our representative, to all nations. (Acts 17:26.)
  9. It is' not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years before ever there was a Jew.
  10. The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they stigmatize God's holy rest day.
  11. Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day week all, through the patriarchal age. (Genesis 2:l-3; 8:10,12; 29:27,28.etc.)
  12. It was a part of God's law before Sinai. (Exodus 16:4, 27-29.)
  13. Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. (Exodus 20:1-17.) Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts, which all admit to be immutable?
  14. The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the living God. (Deuteronomy 4:12,13.)
  15. Then He wrote the commandment with His own finger. (Exodus 31:18.)
  16. He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its imperishable nature. (Deuteronomy 5:22.)
  17. It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5.)
  18. God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying times. (Exodus 34:21.)
  19. God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. (Ezekiel 20:12, 13.)
  20. It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from false gods. (Ezekiel 20:20.)
  21. God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:24, 25.)
  22. He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it. (Nehemiah 13:18.)
  23. He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. (Jeremiah 17:27.)
  24. God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. (Isaiah 56:6,7.)
  25. This is in the prophecy, which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. (See Isaiah 56.)
  26. God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. (Isaiah 56:2.)
  27. The Lord requires us to call it "honourable". (Isaiah 58:13.) Beware, ye who take delight in calling it the. “old Jewish Sabbath,” “a yoke of bondage,” etc.
  28. After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down "many generations,” it is to be restored in the last days. (Isaiah 58:12,13.)
  29. All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
  30. When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life (and even in His death rested in the tomb). (Luke 4:16; John 15:10.) Thus He followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?
  31. The seventh day is the Lord's Day. (See Revelation 1:10; Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13;Exodus 20:10.)
  32. Jesus was/is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her (1 Peter 3:6.)
  33. He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man's good. (Mark 2:23-28.)
  34. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it should be observed. (Matthew 12:1-13.)
  35. He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was “lawful” (Matthew 12:12.) ... (ie it is lawful to do good)
  36. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. (Matthew 24:20.)
  37. The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the seventh day after His death. (Luke 23:56.)
  38. Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit' expressly calls it "the Sabbath day,"(Acts 13:14.)
  39. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the "Sabbath day" in A.D. 45. (Acts 13:27.) Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?
  40. Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the "Sabbath day." (Acts 13:44.)
  41. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. (Acts 13:42.)
  42. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath day." (Acts 15:21)
  43. It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. (Acts 16:13.)
  44. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. (Acts 17:2, 3.)
  45. It was his custom to preach upon that day. (Acts 17:2,3.)
  46. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. (See Acts 13:14, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. 11.)
  47. There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.
  48. In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not keep it?
  49. But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law. “Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
  50. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, “the Sabbath day.”
  51. Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath's being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the kind.
  52. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use - the seventh day for common labor?
  53. No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of that kind, and we will yield the question. Why should modem Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
  54. There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day.
  55. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. (Isaiah 66:22, 23.)
  56. The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. (See Exodus 20.) When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.” Matthew 5:17
  57. Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same tune they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. Jesus did not bless and sanctify the 1st day of the week ... only the 7th.
The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.

Who can change that which God created from the beginning? Nobody, only God. Where does Jesus state it was ever changed? Nowhere. In fact affirms He is Lord of it.

Ponder this as well .... regarding the antichrist ...

Daniel 7:25

English Standard Version
He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think (can't actually do it) to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

appointed times (appointed by who? by God) law (what law)? the 4th commandment.

appointed time = 7th day - the Sabbath of thy Lord thy God
law = the 4th commandment - remember (from creation) the Sabbath and KEEP it HOLY.
 
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helmut

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God wants us to rest on the 7th day of the week. Because He created the heaven and the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. In the Jewish culture the 7th day is called Sabbath, in our culture the 7th day is called Sunday. We keep God's command when we rest on Sundays.
Well he did not reveal this until mount Sinai. Keeping the sabbath is a sign of the Old Covenant, like cicimcision. Both are a sighn of what we should have in the New covenant (cirsumcision of the heart, enrtering into the rest Joshua led the people in.

If you are puzzled: yhowshuw` the Hebrew version of the Aramaic name yeshuw`, which is rendered as iesous in the Greek, hence the Yesus or Jesus spelling. And lest you overlook some trait in my somewhat idiosycratic transcription: I wrote yeshuw` with an Ajin consonant at the end, not yeshua with an a vowel, thus being closer to the ancient pronunciation of Hebrew and Aramaic than the modern Ivrit).
 
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eleos1954

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Who says that?


Jesus did not even call the 10 commandments the heart of the law. The heart of the law (or in Biblical terminology: The highest law) are the commandments to love God more than anything or anybody else, and to love the "neighbor" as oneself.

At some points Jesus quoted out of the 10 commandments, but never the 4th commandment.

So following the lamb means to abandon the false teaching of the 4th command being a "heart" of laws. Anything else is hypocrisy (saying that, in addition to other [more important] laws, we should keep also the sabbath, is somewhat different, though nothing what I can see when looking into the whole Bible and not just some selected verses).

Who says that?

Jesus did not even call the 10 commandments the heart of the law. The heart of the law (or in Biblical terminology: The highest law) are the commandments to love God more than anything or anybody else, and to love the "neighbor" as oneself.

Jeremian 21:33

New King James Version
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.

and ... how we are to love God is in the 1 thru 4 of the 10 commandments

and ... how we are to love our neighbor is in 5-10 of the 10 commandments.

Commandments ...

What Does the Bible Say About Gods Commandments?
 
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helmut

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JESUS (who is God) kept the Sabbath .... that's all I need to know!
Really?

What do we read about Jesus in John:

John 9:16 Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”

In a way, Jesus kept the Sabbath, of course. Following Him means not to keep the Sabbath literally (which Jesus didn't), but rather spiritually. The way you write about keeping the sabbath does not give the impression that you follow Jesus in this respect.

That does not mean that I am better than you, I'm a sinner and far from being perfect ...
 
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helmut

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And Jesus also got circumcised :)
And while Jesus never did anything that caused people to accuse Him for despising his circumcision, he did violate the Sabbath rules which made people accuse Him of braking the Sabbath laws.

So circumcision is far more firmly connected to Jesus and His conduct than keeping the Sabbath.
 
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eleos1954

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Really?

What do we read about Jesus in John:

John 9:16 Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”

In a way, Jesus kept the Sabbath, of course. Following Him means not to keep the Sabbath literally (which Jesus didn't), but rather spiritually. The way you write about keeping the sabbath does not give the impression that you follow Jesus in this respect.

That does not mean that I am better than you, I'm a sinner and far from being perfect ...

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.

They ACCUSED Him according to THEIR rules (manmade) they had added ... and Jesus corrected them. IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH. They were in error with their accusations.

That does not mean that I am better than you, I'm a sinner and far from being perfect

No it doesn't .... and I did not and am not claiming this.

We ALL have sinned and fall short.

Each of us makes and are responsible for our own choices.

Romans 14:12
So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

and ... AMEN!!!!
 
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helmut

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Jeremian 21:33
In my Bible, there is no Jer 21:33, nor in the English KJV version on my Computer (sometimes chapters are divided different in English and German Bibles, so I had to check it out).

You certainly mean Jer 31:33. But this chapter does not mention the Sabbath, so it does not prove what you want to prove. If anything can be drawn from the silence on the Sabbath in that chapter, it would be that Sabbath is unimportant in the renewed covenant (but sacrificing animals is mentioned in V.18, hence important).

If you don't draw the conclusion that sacrificing of animals is more important than Sabbath from that chapter, you should refrain from drawing any conclusion about the sabbath from that passage.
 
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BobRyan

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I'd like your opinion on something that scripture brings to mind, please, Bob.

The one needing forgiveness, asked for it, and throughout the bible we are told we need to ask for our forgiveness.

Do you feel that is a fact or should we automatically forgive the unremorsful? I ask because I find it very easy to forgive anyone, if they sincerely ask, but those who never ask and act as if they are remorseless, or dont even consider what they did a problem, I find it nearly impossible to forgive them.

All indications in the bible strongly indicate an expectation for all to ask forgiveness before it can be granted..but do you know of scripture that indicates we forgive the remorseless? It seems God doesnt even do that.

I believe we forgive others for our own sakes not for theirs. look at Matthew 18 "forgiveness revoked" where the one fully forgiven has his own forgiveness revoked because he did not forgive someone else.

In Matt 6 the Lord's prayer does not say "forgive us our debts as we forgive those who transgress against us and then ask us for forgiveness". And what is the risk in Matt 6? "if you do not forgive others neither will I forgive you". The risk is never to the other guy for not asking us for forgiveness

The reason is that we have no private hell that we can send someone to by not granting them our forgiveness. In terms of spiritual risk - - the other guy is at no risk at all if we don't forgive and gains nothing if we do forgive. The only one that gains is ourselves.. we avoid the Matthew 6 risk to ourselves when we forgive others.
 
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BobRyan

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Well he did not reveal this until mount Sinai. Keeping the sabbath is a sign of the Old Covenant,

No text of scripture says "Keeping the 7th day Sabbath is a sign of the Old Covenant" any more than any text says "choosing not to take God's name in vain is a sign of the Old Covenant"

Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:6-12 read the exact same "unchanged" the New Covenant is the same today as it was in Jeremiah's day - writing the Law of God on the heart and mind. Same moral law of God ... different covenant.

as these folks will all admit --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
 
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BobRyan

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eleos1954 said:
Keeping the Sabbath isn't a convenience ... it's in the heart of the 10 commandments.

Who says that?

The Word of God refers to something that it calls "The Ten Commandments" - are you aware of this?
It is the unit of law where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment. Eph 6:1-2

You seem to be a bit surprised that the 7th day Sabbath commandment is there.

============================

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism. :groupray:

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)
 
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helmut

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Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.
This refers, as I have just shown, to a passage that (if it has any significance about the Sabbath) shows that sacrificing animals is more important than keeping the sabbath. If you don't offer "burnt offerings [and] meat offerings", i.e. if you think such offerings are less important than the Sabbath: Don't use that verse to draw any conclusion about Sabbath.

They ACCUSED Him according to THEIR rules (manmade) they had added
Which rule do you refer to? Jesus himself called a healing on a Sabbath a work done by Him (John 7:21), so you can't argue he did never work on a Sabbath. And do I have to add any rule to the first commandment to say it is forbidden to work on a Sabbath?

... and Jesus corrected them. IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH. They were in error with their accusations.
So it is lawful to work on Sabbath as long as it is done with faith in God (and hence a good work).

The interesting point is: That verse is from a context in which Paul fights against those who condemn other about observing days or refraining from food.

As long anyone follows his own conviction and does not criticize those who do the other was, we act in conformity to Romans 14. But note how Paul gets severe if one tries to make rules on that that bind every believer.

EDIT: Some typos.
 
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eleos1954

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In my Bible, there is no Jer 21:33, nor in the English KJV version on my Computer (sometimes chapters are divided different in English and German Bibles, so I had to check it out).

You certainly mean Jer 31:33. But this chapter does not mention the Sabbath, so it does not prove what you want to prove. If anything can be drawn from the silence on the Sabbath in that chapter, it would be that Sabbath is unimportant in the renewed covenant (but sacrificing animals is mentioned in V.18, hence important).

If you don't draw the conclusion that sacrificing of animals is more important than Sabbath from that chapter, you should refrain from drawing any conclusion about the sabbath from that passage.

We know the sacrificing of animals did not take away any sin. The sacrificial system was put in place pointing to Messiah to come and how the plan of salvation is accomplished through Him ... He who died once for all ... who's blood only is worthy to cover our sin ... who is our High Priest.

apologize for the verse typo ;o)

Jeremiah his LAW (the 10) ... would be pretty goofy to think the cerimonial ordinances are written on people hearts when they have no redeeming quality whatsoever.

2 Corinthians 3:3
It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone (referring to that God wrote on not excluding the 4th) but on tablets of human hearts.

His Law - Written on our hearts
 
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helmut

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No text of scripture says "Keeping the 7th day Sabbath is a sign of the Old Covenant" any more than any text says "choosing not to take God's name in vain is a sign of the Old Covenant"
Ex 31:13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

You err, because you don't know the Scripture, otherwise you would not have denied that verse as you did.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I believe we forgive others for our own sakes not for theirs. look at Matthew 18 "forgiveness revoked" where the one fully forgiven has his own forgiveness revoked because he did not forgive someone else.

In Matt 6 the Lord's prayer does not say "forgive us our debts as we forgive those who transgress against us and then ask us for forgiveness". And what is the risk in Matt 6? "if you do not forgive others neither will I forgive you". The risk is never to the other guy for not asking us for forgiveness

The reason is that we have no private hell that we can send someone to by not granting them our forgiveness. In terms of spiritual risk - - the other guy is at no risk at all if we don't forgive and gains nothing if we do forgive. The only one that gains is ourselves.. we avoid the Matthew 6 risk to ourselves when we forgive others.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind.

It is true the bible doesnt say those things, however it may be it's so obvious they need to ask forgiveness, its assumed we know when instructed on forgiveness.

I'll keep looking for my difinitive answer, as it seems I recall the bible making it clear, but I cant find the scripture.
 
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helmut

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The Word of God refers to something that it calls "The Ten Commandments" - are you aware of this?
Literally, it are the "10 words". According to Jewish counting, there is one general word ("I am YHWH who took you out of Egypt ...") and 9 commandments, so even the term "10 commandments" is not in the Bible. Did you know that?

One may even argue that the 10 words are not the text that is traditionally called so, but the list of commandments directly before the 10 words are mentioned (though this may produce a confusing debate how to divide that list into 10). dis you know that?

But I did not question the 10 commandments, I questioned whether they are the highest commandments. Jesus said otherwise, why do you say something against His words?

The 10 commandments are not the heart of the law, and you said nothing that indicated the 4th commandment is their heart. The only "argument" who gave (Eph 6:1-2) points to the 5th commandment as the heart (if anyone wishes to construct a "heart" there).

What is the heart of the Law according to Jesus:

Mk 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[5] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[6] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Do you follow Jesus, or do you follow those who replace these two commands by the 4th of the 10 words?
 
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Literally, it are the "10 words". According to Jewish counting, there is one general word ("I am YHWH who took you out of Egypt ...") and 9 commandments, so even the term "10 commandments" is not in the Bible. Did you know that?

In Mark 7:6-13 Christ refers to them as "commandments"
In Matt 19 as "Commandments"
In Eph 6 and Romans 7 Paul also refers to them as commandments

There is more than enough data to justify the translation in the OT as "Ten Commandments"

One may even argue that the 10 words are not the text that is traditionally called so, but the list of commandments directly before the 10 words are mentioned (though this may produce a confusing debate how to divide that list into 10). dis you know that?

The division of the TEN is how it is in both the Hebrew and Protestant versions. Did you know that?

"The first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 according to Paul (in that list of TEN Commandments) is "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12 , so much for not including the actual commandments in the "Ten Words".

"22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me." Deut 5

Deut 10:4 4 He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Repeating a statement does not make it factual. Scripture does make a difference between the believing Jews who are "sealed" (so they are safe from the Great tribulation) and the multitude of Non-Jews who will go through this tribulation (Rev 7!). Unless you deal with that, I don't believe that your interpretation of Scripture on this point can be taken serious, regardless how many verses you quote. There is (or at least: should be) unity of Jewish ("messianic") and gentile believers, but this does not obliterate the difference, the marks and benefits Paul lists in Rom 9:2-5.

What makes you think I do not have scripture? God's ISRAEL according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those in the flesh but in the Spirit and a Jew is not one outwardly but inwardly of the heart in the Spirit. God's ISRAEL are today all those who believe and follow God's Word. There are no more Jewish and Gentile believers in the flesh as all are one on Christ. Gentile believers are now grafted in. If we are not a part of Gods ISRAEL in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise....

EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

[12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

Need more scripture????

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked

Your welcome
 
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helmut

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We know the sacrificing of animals did not take away any sin.
Neither did keeping the Sabbath.

The sacrificial system was put in place pointing to Messiah to come and how the plan of salvation is accomplished through Him
In know. And there is ample evidence that the sabbath likewise is a sign for then messianic rest.

Jeremiah his LAW (the 10)
At which point does Jeremiah specify that "his" law ist restricted to the 10 commandments? You have referred to a passage which shows that "his" Law included sacrifices!

It is double standard to say that the ceremonial law (like sacrifices) has to be spiritualised, and a law that is (according to Jeremiah, Jesus and other parts of Scripture) not more important (maybe even less) should be kept literally.

It's rather late in Germany, I'm going to sleep and read more postings tomorrow.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Literally, it are the "10 words". According to Jewish counting, there is one general word ("I am YHWH who took you out of Egypt ...") and 9 commandments, so even the term "10 commandments" is not in the Bible. Did you know that?

The Hebrew words used for ten commandments is הדברים: עשׂרת and translates as ten words in the English. This translation alone does not make any sense in the English as it is more than ten words for each law and more like ten sentences. The Hebrew translation of dabar to the ten words is because they are God's ten words. He spoke them and wrote them with his own finger *Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 32:16. Fact of the matter is that these ten words (sentences) of God are all commandments ("Thou shalt not"; "You shall not") right? Hence the English translation to Ten commandments solves the problem of words and sentences and application.

The correct English translation therefore is ten commandments and this is why the majority of bible translation translate it that way. That does not mean the Ten words translation is not correct. It is correct but it is better understood in the English as to their implication of context as the "ten commandments" because the ten words (sentences) of God are ten commandments.

A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible
1697. דָבָר dâbâr, daw-bawr´; from 1696; a word; by impl. a matter (as spoken of) or thing; adv. a cause:—act, advice, affair, answer, × any such (thing), + because of, book, business, care, case, cause, certain rate, + chronicles, commandment, × commune (-ication), + concern [-ing], + confer, counsel, + dearth, decree, deed, × disease, due, duty, effect, + eloquent, errand, [evil favoured-] ness, + glory, + harm, hurt, + iniquity, + judgment, language, + lying, manner, matter, message, [no] thing, oracle, × ought, × parts, + pertaining, + please, portion, + power, promise, provision, purpose, question, rate, reason, report, request, × (as hast) said, sake, saying, sentence, + sign, + so, some [uncleanness], somewhat to say, + song, speech, × spoken, talk, task, + that, × there done, thing (concerning), thought, + thus, tidings, what [-soever], + wherewith, which, word, work.

The Lexham Bible Dictionary
TEN COMMANDMENTS (עֲשֶׂרֶת הַדְּבָרִים, asereth haddevarim). The commandments inscribed upon the two tablets of stone that God gave to Moses at Mount Sinai (Exod 20:1–17; Deut 5:6–21).

Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote on the tables the words of the covenant, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them on two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the TEN COMMANDMENTS, which the LORD spoke to you in the mount out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them to me.

Hope this helps
 
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