Just out of curiosity, is this the first time you hear Ellen G. White being called "masonic" and "false prophet"? Do you happen to know what reasons are commonly brought up to impute her those labels?
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Any Holy Spirit Revival leading multitudes to Sabbath observance?
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Just out of curiosity, is this the first time you hear Ellen G. White being called "masonic" and "false prophet"? Do you happen to know what reasons are commonly brought up to impute her those labels?
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In the days of JESUS, the religious teachers of the day also called JESUS of the devil *John 10:20 and his disciples a cult. Do you know what the reasons are that were commonly brought up to give them that label? Do you know what Matthew 10:25; Matthew 5:11; Luke 6:22 mean? The Jews all through time also accused God's prophets of being false prophets and of the devil and have sought to stone them and kill them because they testified against them, trying to warn them to return to God and proclaiming their deeds were evil *Matthew 3:1-2; Matthew 4:17; John 3:18-21. So it was in the days of JESUS *Matthew 11:18; Luke 7:33; John 10:20; Acts of the Apostles 2:38, so it is today. God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who choose not to hear, do not follow God's Word according to the scriptures *John 10:26-27. You have not been provided anything from EGW. You have only been provided God's Word from the scriptures, yet you do not believe them. As the JEWS did not believe the very Words of JESUS, the prophets and Apostles there is nothing new under the Sun. A storm is coming. BABYLON has fallen *Revelation 14:8-12, God is calling His people to come out and worship Him in Spirit and in truth, but who has ears to hear what the Spirit says *Matthew 25:6;? God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. Those who hear His Voice (the Word) will follow him because they hear him and know Him. The many will not hear however according to Isaiah, JESUS and Paul as it is written "Go to this people, and say, Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. - Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:14-15; Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. It is true, the many will be called but only the few will be chosen *Matthew 24:14 because the many choose to close their eyes and ears to Gods' Word and will not hear them. Now if I tell you the truth why do you not believe me?
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probably so - but name calling is seen all through the NT against Christians.. not all that surprising. Is it your claim that only those who accept Ellen White as a prophet keep the Sabbath?? is that what brings it up here for you?
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Sure, you are quite active posting super long answers in multiple threads, so I can concede you that.
I wouldn't be so sure to talk about "proving stuff" here, given that:
- the doctrinal debates we see in these forums are subject to interpretation biases and lack the level of rigorousness you see in formal proofs (as in logic and mathematics),
- some of your answers have not been very well received by the community of Biblical Hermeneutics StackExchange,
- I haven't even had the time to post replies to each of your posts yet (be patient), and
- the times I do have addressed your posts, I haven't had issues spotting logical fallacies or unsubstantiated claims.
No, for the reasons mentioned above.
Sure, I'm debating the topic, so I definitely have to think about it.
Sure.
I agree, if and only if:
- Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath and,
- Breaking the Sabbath knowingly can send Gentiles to Hell.
It depends on whether we are saved though. Any one can promote something that is correct, and still end up in Hell for other reasons.
Again, you cannot be sure about that. The thief crucified next to Jesus illustrates that people can get saved in the most extreme circumstances, so making absolutist claims about whether you or I will or will not get saved is unsubstantiated and prone to mistakes. As they say, "there will be many surprises in heaven".
Furthermore, keeping a particular commandment (whether currently effective or not) will not save you if you are breaking other commandments. If you accuse someone of systematically breaking a commandment, but you systematically fail to keep other commandments, that gives right to the other person to judge you back using the same criterion. In order to be unjudgeable, you would need to keep the whole Law without making a single mistake ever.
Matthew 7:1-5
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
James 2:8-11
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
You need to keep the whole Law without making a single mistake to become unjudgeable by the Law. So, even if I grant you (for the purposes of a thought experiment) that Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath, if you keep the Sabbath your whole life but break other commandments, that would make you as guilty as if I don't keep the Sabbath but keep the other commandments. You cannot conclude the eternal destiny of a person by how they are performing in a particular commandment. That kind of conclusion requires a consideration of the whole picture, and only God can do that. So our discussing of who of us will be saved is speculative at best.
1) Regarding keeping the Sunday as Holy day, no one here is claiming that (at least I don't), so I will not address that part.
2) Concerning the Sabbath: there is no scripture explicitly saying "you don't have to keep the Sabbath", but the conclusion is not very hard to draw (read the argumentation below). By the way, there is no scripture saying that the Gentiles have to keep the Sabbath either.
1) Exodus 31:12-17 (NIV)
12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. 14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
From this passage I understand that the commandment to keep a seventh day Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the Israelites. God established a covenant between Him and the Israelites, and the Sabbath is a sign of that covenant.
2) Hebrews 8:6-13 (NIV)
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
From this passage I understand that, due to Israel's disobedience, the old covenant has become obsolete and has been replaced by a new covenant with Jesus as its mediator.
3) Hebrews 4:1-11 (NIV)
Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
From this passage I understand that the Israelites, due to their disobedience, were not able to enter God's rest. However, those who believe (Christians) can enter that Sabbath-rest, no longer each seventh day, but today (a sort of "present moment" rest).
In short, from these 3 passages I conclude that:
- The mandate to keep a seventh day Sabbath was given to the Israelites as a sign of the old covenant.
- The old covenant is obsolete and has been replaced with a new covenant mediated by Jesus.
- Christians in the new covenant can enter a Sabbath-rest in the present moment ("today").
- Therefore, the commandment to keep a literal physical rest every seventh day is obsolete.
I mean, it depends. If you are worried by it, by all means.
Thanks.
But again, the work of the Holy Spirit is to transform and empower believers to become witnesses of Jesus Christ (go back to the OP to read the multiple verses backing up this). Furthermore, you have the following promise in the new covenant:
Jeremiah 31:31-34
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
In other words, you have evidence from multiple parts of Scripture that in the new covenant people's hearts will be transformed by the Holy Spirit, naturally leading them to do what is right. Therefore, if keeping the Sabbath is part of what is right (and if breaking it will lead people to Hell), then you should expect that people will naturally be led by the Holy Spirit to keep the Sabbath. However, we don't see that happening in most revivals. How come?
If interested, here is another example of revival not listed in the OP: the revival in Uganda. Where is the Sabbath keeping in this revival?
Lastly, if you still don't agree, I invite you post an answer to the following question: How do seventh day Sabbatarians explain the lack of Sabbath observing following Spirit led revivals?
Which would be very fallacious if you do, since by the same token one could indicate that Catholics reach 1.3 billion (source), Pentecostals 279 million (source), Baptists around 50 million in the US alone (source), and you guys are not very far away from Mormons (about 17 million members - source) and Jehovah's Witnesses (about 9 million members - source).
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Agreed. What the Scriptures don't say, though, is that SDAs are that remnant.
Sure, but my last point still stands. Quoting myself: "[...] but even if I grant you that interpretation, that still doesn't prove that "not working from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday" is among them. That's just nowhere in Matthew 7:21-23."
The conclusion we can draw from Matthew 7:21-23 is that we have to obey God / do God's will / do what God commands us to do. I think we both agree on this. However, it doesn't follow from that that we have to keep the Sabbath. Matthew 7:21-23 by itself does not support Sabbath keeping (the word Sabbath never appears in the whole chapter). You would need to provide additional evidence in order to prove that keeping the Sabbath is part of God's will for the Gentiles.
Not necessarily. As far as I'm aware there are no hard numbers provided in the Bible regarding how big or small a group of people has to be in order to be labeled a remnant. Given that the current world population is over 7 billion, even if we put all the individuals involved in these revivals together, I'm pretty sure they would still amount to a very small fraction of the whole world population. If you are criticizing my argument based on amount of people, unless you provide hard numbers for how many people is "way too many" for a remnant, your criticism is baseless.
This can be easily refuted:
- The two most important commandments according to Jesus are not part of the Decalogue (see Matthew 22:34-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18).
- Your claim is not supported by Scripture. There is no verse in the Bible stating "the 10 commandments are the moral law for the new covenant, and all the other 603 commandments are not". That's an arbitrary distinction you are making up of out thin air.
Please remind me of posting an answer to your link (this answer is already becoming quite long). But addressing a few of your verses:
Refuted here: Is Jesus implying that He expects his disciples to be Sabbath-keepers in Matthew 24:20?
Jesus was Jewish and under the old covenant.
Those women were Jewish and have been keeping the Sabbath all their lives up to that point, and Jesus had just passed away a few hours before. Why would you expect them to change their habits in a few hours? Also, this doesn't tell you anything about the Gentiles.
The Jewish synagogues were still active on the sabbath, and there is nothing wrong with attending them to preach the gospel to Jews.
This doesn't tell you that the Gentiles were Sabbath-keepers, it only shows that they were interested in what was being preached. The preaching took place in synagogues on sabbaths because that's when the synagogues were full of people, otherwise Paul would have been preaching to empty seats. Furthermore, the text doesn't tell us what the Gentiles did before or after the meeting. The text never says that they rested. Maybe they worked before or after the meeting, who knows. Claiming that they rested would be mere speculation and it's not supported by the text (it would be making doctrine out of silence).
Again, conveniently gathering in synanogues on Saturday is not the same as keeping the Sabbath. None of these texts indicate that the Gentiles rested, only that they heard what was being preached during those meetings (before or after the meeting they could have worked in their respective businesses, who knows).
First of all, God is still working.
John 5:16-18
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Secondly, can you share your sources for this claim? Where did you get the "Sabbatismos" and the corresponding interpretation?
Thirdly, Hebrews 4 clearly states that the day has changed from seventh to "Today" (present moment):
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
There is a Sabbath-rest which is today (not every seventh-day). Verse 8 clearly says "another day".
Your interpretation of Isaiah 66:22-23 is flawed for multiple reasons:
- You are cherry-picking the Sabbath part, and completely ignoring that the text also says "from one new moon to another" (see Rosh Chodesh). Should I conclude that you are a fervent keeper of Rosh Chodesh the first day of each month?
- The text never claims that people will keep the Sabbath or that people will keep Rosh Chodesh. It is simply using them as time references to mean: "each month, each week". Think of it as a rhetorical way of saying "24/7/365".
Sure, no problem. Which raises the question: what is the law that is in effect for the Gentiles? The 613 commandments of the Old Testament Law? Just a few ones? Just a few ones from the Old Testament plus a few new ones from the New Testament?
James 2 and James 4 never say "ten commandments", that's just not in the text. And again, the Law has 613 commandments, not 10.
In the old covenant sure, but there is not a single text claiming that the Gentiles have to keep a literal physical rest every seventh-day from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday in the new covenant. Just share a single verse claiming that. And by the way, Romans 7 says nothing about the Sabbath.
You said it: "[...] count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing [...]". Jesus is the mediator of a covenant. Which one? A new covenant. What happened to the old covenant? It's obsolete (see Hebrews 4:1-11). What was the sign of the old covenant between God and the Israelites? The sabbath (see Exodus 31:12-17).
I mean, if you are worried about it, by all means.
No problem, but let's read on ...
You meant to say 613 commandments, right?
Actually, Hebrews 8 is saying that God will transform the minds and hearts of people and they will naturally keep God's New Covenant commandments. And this brings us back to this thread's topic: in most revivals throughout history we don't see people naturally keeping the Sabbath. Instead, we see people naturally quitting drugs, alcohol, inappropriate content, sex, fornication, hatred, anger, lies, robbery, witchcraft, people feeling love for their neighbors, feeling love for God, all sorts of things we see in revivals. But Sabbath-keeping? ...
I just did. And guess what: none of those verses indicates that the Gentiles have to rest from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.
I completely agree with this. However, that the Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) is no part of that knowledge.
Thanks.
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1. No Bible text says "nothing in the Old Covenant was true" -- I think we all agree on that one point.
2. Jer 31:31-34 says the New Covenant uses the same LAWS of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - written on heart and mind - known by those at Sinai.
3. The same "do not take God's name in vain" in Ex 20 ... is still valid today. Even though Israelites were also not supposed to take God's name in vain.
4. Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17 - before the cross.
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Whether they are or not - has nothing to do with whether the Holy Spirit has individually witnessed to someone that they should not ignore the Word of God -- including God's Commandments 1 Cor 7:19
not Correct. The new Birth, the New Covenant of Jer 31 unchanged in Heb 8 -- is a miracle of God.
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We are dead to the law!
"So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." Romans 7:4
Why are you trying to put Christians under the Mosaic law? Blasphemy!!
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Hebrews 8:7-13, "For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
We are not under the Old Covenant; we are not under the Law. We are under grace and led by the Spirit, not by the written code. We are led by God's Spirit.
Romans 7:4, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
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Whether they are or not - has nothing to do with whether the Holy Spirit has individually witnessed to someone that they should not ignore the Word of God -- including God's Commandments 1 Cor 7:19
not Correct. The new Birth, the New Covenant of Jer 31 unchanged in Heb 8 -- is a miracle of God.
God did not say that the problem with the old covenant was that it said "do not take God's name in vain".
In fact God never condemns any of the TEN.
Rather as your text says - the problem was
"because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord."
The problem was not "They refused to take my name in vain" rather the problem is identified as "they did not remain faithful to my covenant".
And even so the moral LAW of God is the same -- it still says "do not take God's name in vain".
If we are born again - then "We are not under the Old Covenant;
So then - we should not sin for even in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
Rom 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
Rom 6:19 ... For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
No wonder then that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
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dead to the penalty of the law as transgressors.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
=========== and what about saved vs lost in Romans 8?
Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
The mind of the lost person "does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,"
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LoveGodsWord
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To be honest I am a little surprised at what you have written above. Whatever website you visit people will always have bias to what they believe and do not believe. Even the scholars do not agree among themselves as to what is true and what is not true. You will not find Gods truth by seeking it through the teachings of men and word of website. I would challenge you to open your eyes. All websites including Hermeneutics StackExchange are bias because the people posting them are bias to what they believe. The difference though between Hermeneutics StackExchange and here though is that at Hermeneutics StackExchange that as a new member they restrict your ability to respond and vote. God's truth is not a popularity contest. Remember it was JESUS and the humble fisherman and the prophets of old times that had the truth of God's Word, not the scholars of the Scribes of the Pharisees that sought to kill them and called them of the devil. God's people have always been a remnant according to the scriptures all through time and it has always been the scholars of the day that have sought to kill them. If this does not worry you it should.
Your response...
Already demonstrated through the scriptures. You simply choose to deny them. If the scriptures define SIN as the transgression of God's law and breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, I would say that Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-31 teach that if we knowingly sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it we can lose our salvation don't you?
Hebrews 10:26-31 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29], OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT SUPPOSE YOU SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? [30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Yep pretty clear to me...
Your response here...
Actually it does not depend on anything. As posted and shown through the scriptures above all who continue in known unrepentant sin once they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it do not end up in Gods kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-31. That is what the scriptures teach. You teach that this is not true and we end up in Gods kingdom regardless of continuing in known unrepentant sin or not continuing in known unrepentant sin. For me, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Romans 3:4
No one has ever said that keeping God's commandments save us. They are the fruit of faith that work by love. We keep God's commandments because we love God *John 14:15 and he has saved us *Matthew 9:12-13 not because they save us. We are all sinners in need of a Savior and this is where God's law leads us *Galatians 5:16. We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of words lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *PHILIPPIANS 2:13 as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
The scripture you quote here is not appropriate for this conversation as I do not judge you. It is the Word of God that we accept or reject that will be our judge come judgement day...
John 12:47-48 [47], And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.[48], HE THAT REJECTS ME, AND RECEIVES NOT MY WORDS, HAS ONE THAT JUDGES HIM: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY.
We are told not to judge each other because only God's Word is our judge. We are told to judge righteous judgement and there is none righteous no not one *Romans 3:10. Only God Word is righteous *Isaiah 45:19; Psalms 119:123; Psalms 119:144; Psalms 119:172
Therefore we are to judge righteously according to the scriptures and the scriptures teach
1 John 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.[4], WHOEVER COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.
We are also told we shall know them. That is those who are from God and those who are not by their fruit *Matthew 7:16-23.
Hope this helps...
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LoveGodsWord
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Yeps thanks, this scripture proves my point. I have highlighted the sections your not picking up on above in red. The scripture is talking about the 10 commandments and that if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is according to the scriptures *Romans 3:20 and sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of Gods kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-31
Your premise is a strawman. As shown through the scriptures already there is no more Jewish believe and Gentile believers in the new covenant Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. God's Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those of the flesh but of the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. God's Israel in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word *Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. If we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12
Well I am glad you agree and thank you for being honest. You are correct, as there is no scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. If there is no scripture for abolishing God's 4th commandment and just like any other of the 10 commandments if we knowingly break them we stand guilty before God of sin and sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it after they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word are we not gambling with our salvation if we are trying to read into the scriptures what is not written in them? JESUS says it is vain to think we are worshiping God by breaking his commandments *Matthew 15:3-9. Paul says if we continue to sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word we will lose our salvation. Something to pray about don't you think?
True indeed but we are in the new covenant now and as posted earlier the new covenant scriptures teach as posted above that there is no more Jewish believe and Gentile believers in the new covenant Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. God's Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those of the flesh but of the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. God's Israel in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word *Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. If we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12
True, the new covenant is not the same as the old covenant. Many people misinterpret what the old covenant is and only tell half the story of what the old covenant is and as a result do not understand what the new covenant is. What made up the old covenant in your view and what is the new and what exactly is it that has disappeared? (scripture please)
God's rest that the Hebrews in the wilderness were not able to enter into is defined in Hebrews 4:1-5 as God's seventh day Sabbath. Therefore says the scriptures it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath v9. Today as yesterday no one enters into God's rest if they do not believe and follow God's Word.
As shown through the scriptures above...
1. God's Israel in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word *Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. God's Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those of the flesh but of the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. If we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12
2. The old covenant is obsolete but the this is not a reference to God's 10 commandments in the new covenant that according to the new covenant scriptures have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in is who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16. Unless we are born again we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7 and those who are born again do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9. Those who practice sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) according to the scripture do not know God or have they seen him *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6.
3. Christians in the new covenant do not enter into God's Sabbath rest *Hebrews 4:1-5 if they do not believe and follow God's Word. v9 Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath. We need to believe and follow God's Word today...
4. There is no scripture and you have already told me that you agree that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. According to God's Word (not mine), God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11 and all those who knowingly practice sin (breaking God's law) according to the scriptures do not enter the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant and unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31; Romans 6:23.
It seems like God's Word disagrees with you dear friend. Who will you choose to believe and follow? For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Romans 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4.
The point in the scriptures provided you that I feel your not picking up on is that God's Spirit works through the Word of God not outside of it as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63. There is no such thing as a revival through God's Spirit it the Spirit you claim as causing a revival disagrees with the scriptures and is leading people away from God and his Word. Rivival is to Christ and his Word not to the Sabbath. Your making strawman arguments. If we are lead to Christ and his Word and we love God we will keep His commandments *John 14:15 not break them. Those who break God's commandments do not know him and need to be born again according to the scriptures *1 John 2:3-4
Hope this helps
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I like the optimism in that site.. it says
"The best answers are voted up and rise to the top"
wouldn't that be nice!!
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LoveGodsWord
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God's saints are defined in the scriptures are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13; John 10:26-27. God's people are also defined as those who love God and keep His commandments *John 14:15; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 2:3-4 and not practicing sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4-9. They also have the testimony of JESUS which is the Spirit of Prophecy *Revelation 19:10.
Nonsense. Your claims have fallen over. Matthew 7:21-23 which describes who JESUS and saying to depart from him at the second coming is to those who break his commandments they are without law and lawless (break God's commandments). They practice sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4. (more detail through the scriptures here linked)
Indeed I am criticizing your argument based on the scriptures because you are making strawman argument based on the amount of people in Spirit led revivals that have nothing to do with God's 4th commandment. As shown through the scriptures Spirit led revivals are based on the scriptures and lead people to them not away from them. That would be another Spirit that God's Word warns us about in the last days.
This is easily refuted, in the very scriptures you are quoting here. God's love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law not by breaking them. JESUS says "ON THESE TWO Great commandments of love to God and love to man HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets * Matthew 22:36-40. JESUS is quoting from the old testament scriptures in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Paul is stating the same thing when he quotes our duty of love to our fellow man and quotes the second six commandments of the 10 commandments in Romans 13:8-10 saying that this duty of loving our neighbor is simply summing up the second six commandments of the 10 commandment. You can also read the same thoughts in James 2:8-12. Sorry dear friend seems God's Word disagrees with you.
Nonsense. Please tell me how Matthew 24:20 has been refuted? What a silly website. The person who asks a question puts out a bounty for reputation points and gives the points to the person he/she thinks gave the best answer. Meanwhile if you are new to the website your are unable to vote while the post in the thread with the highest votes did not win this bounty?
My challenge to you is to bring your questions here and let's discuss them. Your website is biased.
As shown through the scriptures elsewhere... Romans 2:28-29[28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. We are in the new covenant now and it is this same JESUS that says that he made the Sabbath for all mankind and he is the Lord of it *Mark 2:27-28 and commands his people to keep it as a Holy day of rest *Exodus 20:8-11 as which he teaches it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day *Matthew 12:1-12.
Your response...
I think you missed the point dear friend. These women were direct disciples of JESUS and JESUS gave them no commands to break God's 4th commandment Sabbath. You think JESUS would have said something before he died? Yep he did he told them he was the Lord of the Sabbath and creator of it Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8.
Your response here...
Your missing the point again. The Apostles are still keeping the Sabbath after the death and resurrection of JESUS. You think Jesus would have said something before he died if God's 4th commandments was abolished right?
Your response here...
Where did I tell you that the gentiles were keeping the Sabbath? If I said no such thing what are you pretending that I did? If the Sabbath was not relevant here and the Gentiles could not hear Paul preach to the Jews why are the Gentiles asking to hear the Word of God next Sabbath and not on Sunday (next day)? Your argument makes no sense.
Your response here...
Your missing the point again in those scriptures. Paul was persuading both Jews and Gentiles on the Sabbath which was still being kept by the Apostles and disciples of JESUS even after the death and resurrection of JESUS. Who was Paul the Apostle of the JEWS or the Gentiles?
Your response
Indeed, JESUS teaches us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. If JESUS is teaching us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath why is he teaching this if we are no longer to keep it? That argument does not make much sense right?
Your response here...
Sure no problem. Go look them up...
The Aramaic translation says in HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH
Most of the other translations use...
HEBREWS 4:9 THERE REMAINS A SABBATH REST TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD (also good)
Which ever translation you want to use whether Greek of Aramaic it still works out the same. "There still remains a Sabbath rest (Sabbatismos is the verbal noun for keeping the Sabbath).
The Greek of Hebrews 4:9 is...
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα απολείπεται σαββατισμός τω λαώ του θεού (ABPi)
The highlighted part of the Greek above is the Greek Word sabbatismos
Let's now look at the Greek Dictionaries, and Lexicons for word meaning and applications so you can see I am not reading into the scripture what the scripture does not say. The root word of sabbatismos is from sabbaton (Translated Sabbath in the Greek).
Let’s look at the meaning of Sabbatismos…
Strongs Concordence
SABBATISMOS: a sabbath rest; Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ; Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Transliteration: sabbatismos; Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos') Short Definition: a Sabbath rest; Main Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Abbot Smiths Greek Lexicon of the New Testament
*†σαββατισμός, -οῦ, ὁ (<σαββατίζω, TO KEEP THE SABBATH, Exo 16:30, al.), A KEEPING SABBATH, A SABBATH REST: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†
BDAG
σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ (σαββατίζω; Plut., Mor. 166a cj.; Just., D. 23, 3) sabbath rest, sabbath observance fig. Hb 4:9 a special period of rest for God’s people modeled after the traditional sabbath (CBarrett, CHDodd Festschr. ’56, 371f [eschat.]).—S. on κατάπαυσις HWeiss, CBQ 58, ’96, 674–89. M-M. TW.
The Anchor Bible Dictionary
This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance or keeping, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not dependent on Heb. 4:9 (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856).
Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament
The translation for "Keeping Sabbath" comes from the Greek word that is used in Hebrews 4:9, σαββατισμός, pronounced sabbatismos, which is a noun form that means Sabbath rest, Sabbath keeping observance. This definition of the Greek word σαββατισμός sabbatismos is confirmed by other historical works: The words 'keeping sabbath' or sabbath rest is translated from the GK noun sabbatismos, [and is] a unique word in the NT. The Greek word, σαββατισμός sabbatismos, is a noun. The verb form of the word is σαββατίζω sabbatizo, which means to keep the Sabbath
There is much more but will stop here for now. The rest of your post is repetition and has already been answered elsewhere. So will stop for now.
Hope this helps.
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This is what you believe, and it is a popular religious philosophy. But Paul teaches differently which is why I responded to your post in the first place.
1 Cor. 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
These Words were not meant for them, but for us, so that we don't follow the same lawlessness that they followed. Just because a huge number of people gather together and call Jesus Lord, Lord, doesn't mean they are walking in the "good works" God has before ordained that we should walk in them, or that Jesus even knows them, as HE tells us..
There were a lot of religious Jews who called God their Lord in these Examples written for our admonition.
Jesus said HE was the Lord of the Sabbath Days, and that it was "made for man". He told His church to wait until Pentecost, a Feast of His that the mainstream preachers of HIS time had polluted.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
This is the Promise of the Father.
Lev. 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, (Last day of Unleavened Bread) from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: (therefore the instruction to "WAIT")
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD. ( men who had denied themselves and followed the Christ of the Bible)
18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.
19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.
20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest.
21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
This was the Shadow of the New Covenant Church, which had rejected the mainstream religious traditions and doctrines of the religious men of their time and followed the Feasts of Christ which these religions had corrupted.
My post posed the question, "Why did Jesus follow the Sabbath of God, but the mainstream religions of His Time didn't? Jesus said they transgressed God's Sabbaths by their own religious traditions. And now we see that Jesus directed HIS People to gather together on Feast of Weeks, which can only be found by counting from the Last day of Unleavened bread, which comes immediately after Passover? An event which takes place prior to God instructing HIS People how to live.
How can you say these Scriptures don't make a Connection between Christ, His People, and His Feasts and Sabbaths"
This is easy.
Iniquity Greek = anomia, or anomos, It means= Illegality, violation of law or wickedness. Transgression of the Law, unrighteousness. Lawlessness, without Law, Lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.
Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
2 Tim. 2: 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one (Jew and Gentile) that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Now we know "many" of the examples written for us in the Law and Prophets claimed the God of Abraham as their God, but didn't "depart from iniquity". This caused God to "cut them off" of the Holy Tree. Paul says to keep this in mind.
Rom. 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Is the Sabbath of God His Law? Did Jesus walk in it? Did Paul? If the answer to these questions are "yes", then why do we have millions of people today, who call Him Lord, Lord, but do not walk "even as HE walked"?
Jesus did say this Commandment was "made for man", and I am a man. So exactly what "voice" is it that convinces men to continue in the iniquity of rejecting HIS Commandment?
I'm not telling anyone how to live, I'm just pointing out through Scriptures why I believe Jesus walked in His Father's Sabbaths, and that HE directed HIS People to do the same, so as to not practice iniquity.
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clefty
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Which Law is put into Israel...circumcised hearts and Christlike "inner Jew" minds?
Notice it is My Laws AND no more "know the Lord" because NOW the Word become INCARNATE all DO KNOW...and His Laws and NOT "My NEW upgraded 2.0 version Laws"
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clefty
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Indeed...a sabbath keeping...sabbatismos IS for His people...a Hebrew-Greek linguistic joining for a Jew-Greek new man...a citizen of Israel...and "what Yah has joined together let no man separate" and NOT fall as Israel in the OT did in unbelief...
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
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clefty
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So hang on...The Jerusalem council met to determine what was expected of gentiles coming INTO the family the trunk and its root...and thus they determined 4 things ALREADY in the OT for those NOT of Jacob to observe...3 of which were to clarified HOW to keep clean meat clean...or do you mean to say making sure swine NOT offered to an idol is ok to eat now? Or dog meat as long as the blood is drained? Or even rat stew as long as it wasn't roadkill? lol
Now notice they made NO MENTION of the other 8 of 10 Laws. Do you mean to say that the early church ALLOWED these gentiles coming in to:
worship another god
make images and worship them
blaspheme His name
dishonor parents
kill
steal
lie
covet
notice I listed only 8 as not committing sexual immorality was included as was the Sabbath to continue...
James concluded these now "FINALLY understood as clean" goyim were to CONTINUE to hear Moses read and taught in every city in every synagogue on EVERY SABBATH Acts 15:21
but seriously...because these other 8 were not mentioned you mean to say they were NOT expected...
Keeping the Sabbath is ALL DAY BTW and made for MAN...please REMEMBER and keep it Holy...
JUST LIKE when He delivered the "living oracles to THIS ekklesia in the wilderness" Acts 7:38 it was ALREADY full of those NOT of Jacob and yet ONE LAW for native and foreigner THE SAME...as specified by the Sabbath commandment itself the ONLY commandment to include these "strangers within thy gates"...the irony...
Matt 28:19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey ALL that I have commanded you.
you know since Sabbath was made for MAN and not just Jews...and it was MADE AND GIVEN TO MAN before the Jews were made...neat eh?
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