Calvinist vs Arminian?

IndiaBravo

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Hi,

I'm trying to understand the philosophical differences between various Protestant denominations. I'm also a fan of The Babylon Bee, and one of the big splits they routinely mention is the one between Calvinists and Arminians. However, they never really explain the main differences.

If I do a web search for "Calvinist and Arminian", I get lots of articles comparing and explaining their differences. However, the explanations use terminology I still don't understand.

For example, one guide explains:

Man's Will
The free will of man versus God's sovereign will is linked to many points in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate.

Calvinism: All men are totally depraved, and this depravity extends to the entire person, including the will. Except for God's irresistible grace, men are entirely incapable of responding to God on their own.

Arminianism: Because prevenient grace is given to all men by the Holy Spirit, and this grace extends to the entire person, all people have free will.

I'm interpreting this to mean that Calvinists don't believe mankind has freewill, and that their salvation has been predetermined by God, whereas Arminians believe mankind have a choice in whether or not they accept God. Is that correct?
 

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Hi,

I'm trying to understand the philosophical differences between various Protestant denominations. I'm also a fan of The Babylon Bee, and one of the big splits they routinely mention is the one between Calvinists and Arminians. However, they never really explain the main differences.

If I do a web search for "Calvinist and Arminian", I get lots of articles comparing and explaining their differences. However, the explanations use terminology I still don't understand.

For example, one guide explains:

Man's Will
The free will of man versus God's sovereign will is linked to many points in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate.

Calvinism: All men are totally depraved, and this depravity extends to the entire person, including the will. Except for God's irresistible grace, men are entirely incapable of responding to God on their own.

Arminianism: Because prevenient grace is given to all men by the Holy Spirit, and this grace extends to the entire person, all people have free will.

I'm interpreting this to mean that Calvinists don't believe mankind has freewill, and that their salvation has been predetermined by God, whereas Arminians believe mankind have a choice in whether or not they accept God. Is that correct?

Pretty much on target.

You need to understand TULIP. Search the web for that.

Here's a site you might enjoy. It presents the question... "Calvinism vs. Arminianism - which view is correct?"
 
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IndiaBravo

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I guess the thing I then don't understand about Calvinism is, if everything's predetermined, then why would anyone join a Calvinist denomination? If God hasn't made you already belong to one, doesn't Calvinist theology suggest you shouldn't bother joining one, since it's not what God wants?
 
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BobRyan

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Hi,

I'm trying to understand the philosophical differences between various Protestant denominations. I'm also a fan of The Babylon Bee, and one of the big splits they routinely mention is the one between Calvinists and Arminians. However, they never really explain the main differences.

If I do a web search for "Calvinist and Arminian", I get lots of articles comparing and explaining their differences. However, the explanations use terminology I still don't understand.

For example, one guide explains:

Man's Will
The free will of man versus God's sovereign will is linked to many points in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate.

Calvinism: All men are totally depraved, and this depravity extends to the entire person, including the will. Except for God's irresistible grace, men are entirely incapable of responding to God on their own.

Arminianism: Because prevenient grace is given to all men by the Holy Spirit, and this grace extends to the entire person, all people have free will.

I'm interpreting this to mean that Calvinists don't believe mankind has freewill, and that their salvation has been predetermined by God, whereas Arminians believe mankind have a choice in whether or not they accept God. Is that correct?

Calvinism:

  • Look up "TULIP" - it is an acronym for what they believe.
  • There are 5 point Calvinists (all of the letters), 4 pointers that leave out the "P" (which stands for "perseverance of the saints") and 3 pointers that include only TLP like Charles Swindoll
  • Be prepared to hear from Calvinists such that Calvinist-A claims Calvinist-B is not a real Calvinist since Calvinist-B does not accept the TULIP the same way as Calvinist-A. (Goes with the territory)
OSAS works well in Calvinism (Once Saved Always Saved) due to the way it limits free will and the way it claims one is born-again.

All Presbyterians are supposed to be Calvinists and a lot of Baptists are Calvinist

Arminianism:
  • Main belief distinctive is "free will" both before one is saved and after one is saved. Usually it is of the form that one has supernaturally enabled free will by God who "Draws ALL" mankind unto Him John 12:32
  • Fully accepts Matthew 18 - "forgiveness revoked"
  • Fully accepts the Romans 10:8-11 form of salvation
  • Fully accepts the "branches removed" warning of Christ in John 15:1-11
  • Fully accepts the Romans 11 warning that is of the form "you stand only by your faith... you should fear for if God did not spare them He may not spare you either"
  • Fully accepts Isaiah 5:4 "What more could I have done than that which I have already done?"
  • Fully accepts Matthew 7 "by their fruits you shall know them" (so also does 3 and 5 Point Calvinism accept this one however)
Some Baptists are Arminian, all Methodists are supposed to be Arminian, the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world (according to Christianity Today) is Arminian, and some Messianic and community church groups are Arminian
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi,

I'm trying to understand the philosophical differences between various Protestant denominations. I'm also a fan of The Babylon Bee, and one of the big splits they routinely mention is the one between Calvinists and Arminians. However, they never really explain the main differences.

If I do a web search for "Calvinist and Arminian", I get lots of articles comparing and explaining their differences. However, the explanations use terminology I still don't understand.

For example, one guide explains:

Man's Will
The free will of man versus God's sovereign will is linked to many points in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate.

Calvinism: All men are totally depraved, and this depravity extends to the entire person, including the will. Except for God's irresistible grace, men are entirely incapable of responding to God on their own.

Arminianism: Because prevenient grace is given to all men by the Holy Spirit, and this grace extends to the entire person, all people have free will.

I'm interpreting this to mean that Calvinists don't believe mankind has freewill, and that their salvation has been predetermined by God, whereas Arminians believe mankind have a choice in whether or not they accept God. Is that correct?
Welcome! To put it in a more simplistic way, do you believe God pre-destined some humans to believe in Him and some not to believe in Him?
Yes answer, Calvinism
No answer Arminian

This is where the debate starts. Defining God's Character.
Be blessed.
 
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com7fy8

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I guess the thing I then don't understand about Calvinism is, if everything's predetermined, then why would anyone join a Calvinist denomination? If God hasn't made you already belong to one, doesn't Calvinist theology suggest you shouldn't bother joining one, since it's not what God wants?
It it were to be true that Calvinists are right, then my opinion is God would have you join with people who understand Him correctly, so that you can help each other live for Jesus.

But, while we are at it, Calvinism does not own the predestination idea. There are people who believe in predestination but they are not official Calvinists.

What matters is not only having a correct idea, but what is the "therefore"? What do we do about our idea? How do we live because of it? In order to find this out, you need to personally get to know people so you can discover how they apply what they claim they believe.

And, for that matter . . . God is concerned about how you yourself will live because of what you believe. If you believe in free will, therefore what? If you believe in predestination, therefore how do you live?

I see that certain people have wrong reasons for why they believe in free will. Ones claim if God has predestined us, they claim this means God is "unfair". But if God alone is good, like Jesus says, then it is impossible for God to be unfair. Plus, ones might also argue it to be unfair for God to have people make their own choice . . . since we see how many people have chosen the wrong way > it can appear how humans left to their own ability have tended to not make good choices.

Also, both sides of an issue can be mistaken. So, I would not assume it is either Calvinism or Arminianism. But please trust God and feed on all of His word, so your attention does not get sidetracked or pigeonholed with some one attention getting item.

And see how each person is living what he or she believes. My opinion now is the main meaning of God's word is not conclusions we may draw, but every scripture can be used by God to help us find out how to love . . . in sharing with Him.

For me personally, I see how free will can have a love application > God does not force and threaten us to do what He wants, but He personally satisfies and guides us in His peace > Colossians 3:15. And we are not to force our way over anyone > 1 Peter 5:3; but win people with your good example. Each person needs to personally be blessed by God and have one's own character for obeying God, not only being a puppet and copy-cat on Sunday.

And predestination can have a love application > God is in control; so I need to personally submit to Him, all the time, and depend on Him to have me love the way He knows He wants and is good for each person. I am not wise to trust and depend on my human will's ability > Proverbs 3:5-6, Luke 9:23.

So, instead of forming ideas with others who are congratulating ourselves together :) in comparison with other idealogical groups . . . how do we compare with Jesus and how God's word says to relate with God and love like Jesus? To me, it seems a lot of doctrines and arguing lead attention away from this.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hi,

I'm trying to understand the philosophical differences between various Protestant denominations. I'm also a fan of The Babylon Bee, and one of the big splits they routinely mention is the one between Calvinists and Arminians. However, they never really explain the main differences.

If I do a web search for "Calvinist and Arminian", I get lots of articles comparing and explaining their differences. However, the explanations use terminology I still don't understand.

For example, one guide explains:

Man's Will
The free will of man versus God's sovereign will is linked to many points in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate.

Calvinism: All men are totally depraved, and this depravity extends to the entire person, including the will. Except for God's irresistible grace, men are entirely incapable of responding to God on their own.

Arminianism: Because prevenient grace is given to all men by the Holy Spirit, and this grace extends to the entire person, all people have free will.

I'm interpreting this to mean that Calvinists don't believe mankind has freewill, and that their salvation has been predetermined by God, whereas Arminians believe mankind have a choice in whether or not they accept God. Is that correct?

Correct.

Classic five point Calvinism holds that human beings do not have the freewill to be righteous or do anything to affect their salvation, and thus salvation can only come by God's grace, through faith, which God gives those whom He predestined to salvation as His elect, those whom God predestined to salvation cannot resist His grace, they cannot choose not to believe, they believe because God wills that they believe, and thus the saved cannot fall away.

This is demonstrated in the traditional dive points of Calvinism (often called TULIP) that was put forward by the Synod of Dordt in the 17th century as a response against Arminianism.

Total Depravity - man is totally sinful, even his will and reason is held in bondage to sin, and therefore can accomplish nothing to affect his own salvation.

Unconditional Election - God chose who would be saved, and predestined them, not based on anything they would do, but unconditionally according to His own sovereign will.

Limited Atonement - Since only those whom God has predestined to salvation can and will be saved, Christ only died for the elect, not for anyone else. Christ's atoning work is limited only to the elect.

Irresistible Grace - The calling of God through the Gospel is irresistible, the elect hear and believe, and they cannot choose otherwise. God's grace and call cannot be resisted by those whom He predestined to be saved. Even as those whom God has not predestined can in no way ever believe it it, and such grace is not for them anyway.

Perseverance of the Saints - Since by God's predestining of the elect and His irresistible grace and call means the elect will believe, and cannot ever not believe, it is impossible for the elect to ever fall away, but will persevere until the end for God has willed it to be so. Therefore anyone who falls away was never a believer in the first place.

All of this is in contrast to the views of Jacob Arminius, and the five articles of Remonstrance (Remonstrant was the original term applied to the Arminians):

1. Conditional Election - God by His foreknowledge knows who will come to Him, and has therefore predestined that those who come to Him shall be saved, election is conditional upon the choices men make in this life to believe.

2. Unlimited Atonement - Christ died for all, at least in potential, salvation is freely available to anyone who would choose to believe in Christ.

3. Total Depravity - Man is, by his own power and unassisted by God's grace to accomplish anything for his own salvation.

4. Prevenient Grace - God has given a measure of common grace to all, thus while man in his fallen condition cannot operate his will to affect his own salvation, there is a common grace which exists for all men that assists them in making a choice to believe in Christ and thus be saved.

5. Conditional Perseverance - Those who have put their faith in Christ shall endure to the end if they continue to place their faith and hope in Jesus Christ, if they fall away and reject the faith, they have become apostate. Such a person who was a believer, but turns away, has become a non-believer.

Just as a quick aside, I'm neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist, but a Lutheran. Sometimes people think Lutheranism is a kind of combination of both Calvinism and Arminianism, but the reality is that both Calvinism and Arminianism represent one major branch of the Protestant tree, the Reformed tradition; while Lutheranism is its own thing, independent of the Reformed tradition. That said, there are definitely things which we agree with Calvinists on, and there are some things we agree with Arminians on; but even in these cases we would point out that what we mean isn't always the same thing that a Calvinist or Arminian means.

As an example of what I mean here, Calvinists have Limited Atonement, Arminians have Unlimited Atonement; Lutherans reject both, and insist on Universal Atonement. Calvinists believe in unconditional election, and Lutherans also believe in an unconditional election--but for the Calvinist this means some have been chosen for salvation and others haven't; for Lutherans this means that God has chosen us in Christ to be saved, and that this will of God to save is for everyone, not just some. Thus election is not an esoteric thing that only exists in God's inscrutable will, but is plainly seen and observed through the visible and public work of God in bringing men to faith through the power of His word in the preaching of the Gospel and in the Sacraments.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Jesse Dornfeld

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Hello!

I speak primarily first and foremost as myself and not as someone who is a Calvinist, but I would probably consider myself and 5 point Calvinist.

Having said that, there is something that must be understood with Calvinism that I think no one has mentioned yet. That is the idea between Monergism and Synergism.
Monergism is that God does all the work and Synergism is that we do the work with God.

Contrary to popular belief, Calvinist do believe in a form of Synergism. So the question is not that humans have no free will under Calvinism, but where it is that we work with God for God's glory.
Many Calvinists believe that Synergism works in our sanctification and our cooperation with the Holy Spirit to turn away from sin and do good works. We have to actively participate in doing good with the Holy Spirit as opposed to the Holy Spirit literally taking control of our bodies.

Now speaking primarily as myself and not Calvinist, Insofar as Soteriology is concerned, I personally believe whatever we do in our Free Will that this works in accordance with God's Will, not outside of it. In this way, anyone who is "called" as a Christian works under their own Free Will secondarily to working under God's Will.

The way I like to illustrate this is in two examples I will give.

First, imagine a king rules a land. As such, the king has all authority as to what is done in his kingdom. He will have advisors and such, but the ultimate authority is his. So an advisor might act in place of the king to do such and such task, but first the advisor must ask themselves, "What would the king do here?" It is in this way that though the advisor is acting out the will of the king first and foremost, he is still exercising his Free Will to do such and such task.

The other example I might give is in the Greek word κύριος (kurios) meaning lord. This word basically means the authority or power to decide. So when we say Jesus is Lord, we are saying, "Jesus has authority to decide". And as we call ourselves Christians, what this word means is being "little Christs", Christ-ians. So in calling Jesus Lord, we are given some authority as well as small "l" lords. That is to say that we have some authority to decide things as well, but our authority comes directly for THE LORD as it talks about in Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.'"

Hope that helps!
 
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