Once saved always saved. False?

Zimmer36 · Oct 7, 2020

Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) · Oct 7, 2020

Salvation is repenting from your sin and putting your faith in Jesus Christ thru the gospel. Do it today and then only after seek God on whether conditional or eternal security is the correct one.

Amittai · Oct 7, 2020

Saving is a thing paradoxical in a time frame. And most important in Jesus' eyes is whether we potentise the gifts of others (paradoxical in a time frame). If you can't meet them pray to God that other Christians' gifts will bear fruit, that He will meet their - and your - needs from His Providence, and for just government (pure and simple) in your / our country / -ies. These are the ways in which we can demonstrate and exercise our endurance. You are always counted worthy enough to be heard by Him. Additionally keep interacting with us here!

Danigt22 · Oct 7, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

MR Christian has a really good video explaining it. It is faith alone indeed.

GDL · Oct 7, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do?

So are many other Christians.

Salvation is a process we enter into by coming to understand who Jesus is, believing who He is & submitting to Him because of who He is - the One with all authority in Heaven and on earth - the Savior of those who truly believe in Him, as He defines & explains belief.

Put it in your head now that your Faith in Him is also your Obedience to Him - and your Obedience to Him is your Faith in Him - and your Love for Him. Ask Him to develop this in you - it's His will & Plan to do so.

We're all weak - we begin this Salvation Process as spiritual infants having been developed to whatever degree in & by the world in its sinful darkness. We grow under His Grace to become spiritual adults as we learn from Him & develop under His perfect parenting. This takes time. It's not easy. But under His Grace it can & does work out.

We're all prone to certain sins. Know that sin is not a small issue and that God will raise & train & discipline you to overcome sin to ever greater degrees over time. Take sin seriously, repent (turn from) it, do not make excuses for it, learn what to do when you do sin (read 1 John chapter 1) and do not let people deceive you into thinking what God says is sin is not sin or is no longer sin. Under God's Grace sin can no longer rule you, but it can deceive you & you can fall into submitting to it.

Yes, you need to do your part to cooperate & endure in this growth process. No, a temporary so-called belief is not Salvation no matter how many tell you it is (and plenty will do just that - and plenty will disagree with them - as do I).

You shouldn't worry about this. But you should always & forever have a true & great respect for who He is and that He intends to raise & develop you to spiritual maturity wherein you will live more & more in His will & by His standards.

Honestly, at this point, the more I learn & discuss & observe, the more I'm convinced that the true Christians are those who are by whatever means oriented to obeying our Father and our Lord. In some this seems to be more inherent. In others less so, but it becomes developed. It makes absolutely no sense for someone to say they believe in the God, Creator, and Authority over all things and then show in word or deed that they do not submit to Him for who He is.

You'll learn from Him from His Word. Ask for help.

Basil the Great · Oct 7, 2020

Take your choice. There are Scripture verses are both sides of the issue. You can make a case either way, despite what some may claim, usually those in favor of OSAS. I personally believe that we run a risk if we assume that OSAS is valid. After all, only God knows who will go to Heaven. No human being can know for certain if they are saved or not.

GDL · Oct 7, 2020

FWIW, Zimmer36, set aside the OSAS stuff for now. It's really a battle and profoundly so on this site. There are more Scriptures involved in this than just the Scriptures OSAS proponents will use to state their case.

Just set your mind to learn & do what He says. He'll work in you to make you both desire to do, and to do what pleases Him. You'll work with Him in the process. It takes time.

There's no reason to get in a squabble about whether or not you can walk away from this. Why would you want to? Why did you come to Him in the first place? You've entered a lifelong process. If no one told you this before, I'm telling you now. There's no better place to be & there's nowhere else to go.

NKJ John 6:67-69 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?" 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

NKJ Acts 4:10-12 "let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 "This is the`stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Truly, where else do you go & why would you ever want to depart from the only place and Person of your Salvation? You'll make mistakes. We all did and do. There's provision to get back on track and endure to the end.

This osas debate is for later, maybe. To some it's just argument for argument sake & a waste of time that can be better redeemed.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also seeMatthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).

Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Hope this list helps;
And may God bless you.

TibiasDad · Oct 7, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

Hi Zimmer, welcome to CF!

There have been some good things shared with you, GDL and Bible Highlighter being two particularly good offerings, and I suspect I will be somewhat redundant, at least in spirit, to what has already been said.

I will echo GDL in saying "why would you ever want to stop believing" if you have correctly understood the gospel message and are sorrowful over your sin? Why would you want to return to the things that you've come to see are grievous to God?

The second thing, in my mind, is that in true experiences, one born again has a dynamic change in behavior that becomes a characteristic identifier of who is actually born of God. One of these has been mentioned before and that is obedience to the commands of our Lord, and one of those commands is to love our fellow man.
John puts it this way, "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him." (1 John 3:14-15) With these in mind, one truly born again necessarily has a new desire to love others and be submissive to the command of God that scripture says are the demarcation of true believers. (Jn 13:35, John 14:15) This again shows that true believers have a real and growing desire to do these things, and such a change of direction, unless deliberate choice and action ensues to halt it, is a self-perpetuating and continuous motion.

Lastly, Bible Highlighter has given you a plethora of scriptures that show that obedience and perseverance are, without question, necessities to reach eternal life. But the question is really a moot point if one continues to believe, for as Peter says in 2 Peter 1:5-8, "For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Doug

5thKingdom · Oct 8, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

Jesus says He gives "His sheep" ETERNAL LIFE

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Can you trust Jesus?

BTW, the Bible PROMISES all manner of false doctrines
will be taught in the end of the church age, and even more
heresy taught in the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1-13] after the "testimony" of the church has been
"finished" [Rev 11:7] and after all the saints have been saved
[Rev 7:1-3] and after the Holy Spirit has been "taken out of
the way" [2Thess 2:6-9] so Satan could be "loosened" for his
"Little Season [Rev 20:3] to RULE over the Last Saints
[Mat 25:1-13 and Dan 7:24-25 and Rev 17:12-17].
So do not be surprised to see heresy today...
expect it.

.

d taylor · Oct 8, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

When a person believes that Jesus is the promised Messiah from the prophecies from the Tanakh and trust in The Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

They have received the free gift of Eternal Life never to lose this free gift because of any actions they will do.

A person can not work their way to eternal life and a person also can not sin their way out of eternal life.

Read the Gospel of John the only book of the Bible whose stated purpose for being written is to tell people how to have life (eternal) John 20:30,31

Obedient salvation's are false, man made inventions.

GDL · Oct 8, 2020

d taylor said:
Obedient salvation's are false, man made inventions.

Speaking about Jesus Christ:

NKJ Heb. 5:6-9 As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek"; 7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

So, Jesus Christ Himself learned obedience to God our Father, but obedience to our Father & our Lord is not something for us to be concerned with - it's just of "man made inventions"!?

And Scripture is wrong regarding "eternal salvation to all who obey Jesus Christ" & we should believe "d taylor" who chimes in with false teaching and does not quote Scripture!?

When one really reads John's Gospel beginning with the first words and continuing throughout, you'll find a magnificent picture of who Jesus Christ is - including the fact that He is God the Son. Anyone who can come away from this learning and tell us that one does not have to bow the knee in Belief in who He is and Obedience to Him for who He is, has a serious problem with their thinking.

Our Text - the Word of God - the Truth is designed to build understanding, not to reduce it to some overly simplistic and undefined concept of faith that tries to convince us that we can turn our back on GOD, reject Him, walk away from Him & still have what He only gives to those who truly believe who He is & realize that because of who He is, the only thing for His creation to do is to willingly and gladly submit to Him in Faithful Obedience forever.

John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not do righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

"Do righteousness" is living Obediently to God in Faith in God per His righteous standards.

If I were you, or anyone for that matter, I'd turn & run from anyone who in any way downplays the importance of living in respectful, faithful obedience to God. When Heb5:7 (above) says Jesus Christ was heard because of His "godly fear" - this is exactly what it means - Jesus Christ lived in faithful obedience to God our Father - He "learned obedience" and the culmination of this was His "having been perfected."

You've just been given an overview of the Biblical Salvation Process we ENDURE in - what we are learning within God's Plan for our Salvation - and where we (THOSE WHO OBEY GOD) are headed.

Faith - Obedience > Perfection - Biblical Salvation.

What is the agenda (unlearned or not) of someone who would say "Obedient salvations are false..."? What remotely makes someone think obedient submission to God is a man made invention? How can anyone think that God is going to let His creation continue in the disobedience / sin that began in Satan and then in Eden? Jesus Christ was sent to destroy sin, not perpetuate it.

As I said before, this stupid debate will now rage. I'll drop out of it. It's pointless nonsense for anyone who truly believes God is God and because He is God our only response is to believe He is God and obey His every word as He raises & trains us to do just that. We cannot believe who He is and continue in disobedience to Him. Actually, we can't truly believe in Him without being obedient to Him. It's not Faith then Obedience, it's Faith-Obedience because this is how God designed it.

Simple.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 8, 2020

5thKingdom said:
Jesus says He gives "His sheep" ETERNAL LIFE

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Can you trust Jesus?

BTW, the Bible PROMISES all manner of false doctrines
will be taught in the end of the church age, and even more
heresy taught in the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1-13] after the "testimony" of the church has been
"finished" [Rev 11:7] and after all the saints have been saved
[Rev 7:1-3] and after the Holy Spirit has been "taken out of
the way" [2Thess 2:6-9] so Satan could be "loosened" for his
"Little Season [Rev 20:3] to RULE over the Last Saints
[Mat 25:1-13 and Dan 7:24-25 and Rev 17:12-17].
So do not be surprised to see heresy today...
expect it.

.

And you have to read the previous verse before it.

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” (John 10:27).

So eternal life is only true conditioned on whether one follows Jesus or not.

FreeGrace2 · Oct 8, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do?

Jesus said those who believe in Him, meaning trusting in His work on the cross by paying for one's sins, will have everlasting life and never perish. John 3:16

Then, in John 10:28 He said those He gives etenal life (believers) shall never perish.

Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away.

Both John 3:16 and 10:28 clearly teach eternal security, also called OSAS.

Those who claim otherwise are the heretics.

That only if u endure to the end u r saved.

Such people fail to understand the context for the verse that says this. "The end" is a reference to the end of the 7 year Tribulation. It has nothing to do with applying to every human being in history or a reference to "the end" of one's life, but that is how such people twist its meaning.

So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it?

Listen to what Martha said to Jesus:
John 11-
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

The red words are what Jesus asked Martha.
The blue words are what she answered His question.

theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc.

Just believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life. It's tha simple.

im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

You lack trust. If you really believe what Jesus said in John 3:16 and 10:28, you shouldn't have any fear.

Since you do, have you really trusted in Him for salvation yet?

You are doubting your security. That's a lack of faith. You've identified yourself as "Christian". So I must assume that you have placed your faith/trust in Christ to save you.

So, why are you now doubting? Maybe because you are listening to the heretics that tell you that you can lose your salvation. They are the ones who don't believe what Jesus said.

GOD Shines Forth! · Oct 8, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
So, why are you now doubting? Maybe because you are listening to the heretics that tell you that you can lose your salvation. They are the ones who don't believe what Jesus said.

I think nine times out of ten this is the issue. The Galatians were "running well" but someone cut in on them. Even those well taught by the apostle Paul were susceptible.

d taylor · Oct 8, 2020

GDL said:
Speaking about Jesus Christ:

NKJ Heb. 5:6-9 As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek"; 7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

So, Jesus Christ Himself learned obedience to God our Father, but obedience to our Father & our Lord is not something for us to be concerned with - it's just of "man made inventions"!?

And Scripture is wrong regarding "eternal salvation to all who obey Jesus Christ" & we should believe "d taylor" who chimes in with false teaching and does not quote Scripture!?

When one really reads John's Gospel beginning with the first words and continuing throughout, you'll find a magnificent picture of who Jesus Christ is - including the fact that He is God the Son. Anyone who can come away from this learning and tell us that one does not have to bow the knee in Belief in who He is and Obedience to Him for who He is, has a serious problem with their thinking.

Our Text - the Word of God - the Truth is designed to build understanding, not to reduce it to some overly simplistic and undefined concept of faith that tries to convince us that we can turn our back on GOD, reject Him, walk away from Him & still have what He only gives to those who truly believe who He is & realize that because of who He is, the only thing for His creation to do is to willingly and gladly submit to Him in Faithful Obedience forever.

John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not do righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

"Do righteousness" is living Obediently to God in Faith in God per His righteous standards.

If I were you, or anyone for that matter, I'd turn & run from anyone who in any way downplays the importance of living in respectful, faithful obedience to God. When Heb5:7 (above) says Jesus Christ was heard because of His "godly fear" - this is exactly what it means - Jesus Christ lived in faithful obedience to God our Father - He "learned obedience" and the culmination of this was His "having been perfected."

You've just been given an overview of the Biblical Salvation Process we ENDURE in - what we are learning within God's Plan for our Salvation - and where we (THOSE WHO OBEY GOD) are headed.

Faith - Obedience > Perfection - Biblical Salvation.

What is the agenda (unlearned or not) of someone who would say "Obedient salvations are false..."? What remotely makes someone think obedient submission to God is a man made invention? How can anyone think that God is going to let His creation continue in the disobedience / sin that began in Satan and then in Eden? Jesus Christ was sent to destroy sin, not perpetuate it.

As I said before, this stupid debate will now rage. I'll drop out of it. It's pointless nonsense for anyone who truly believes God is God and because He is God our only response is to believe He is God and obey His every word as He raises & trains us to do just that. We cannot believe who He is and continue in disobedience to Him. Actually, we can't truly believe in Him without being obedient to Him. It's not Faith then Obedience, it's Faith-Obedience because this is how God designed it.

Simple.

Obviously you do not understand Hebrews and the term salvation.

A_JAY · Oct 8, 2020

GDL said:
Put it in your head now that your Faith in Him is also your Obedience to Him - and your Obedience to Him is your Faith in Him - and your Love for Him. Ask Him to develop this in you - it's His will & Plan to do so.

GDL says it well in a couple of sentences.

Albion · Oct 8, 2020

Basil the Great said:
Take your choice. There are Scripture verses are both sides of the issue. You can make a case either way, despite what some may claim, usually those in favor of OSAS. I personally believe that we run a risk if we assume that OSAS is valid. After all, only God knows who will go to Heaven. No human being can know for certain if they are saved or not.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but not the part you highlighted.

While I've read many people saying essentially the same thing, I don't see where Eternal Security (OSAS) and knowing for certain that you are saved are dependent upon each other.

For that matter, the people who reject OSAS in favor of freewill can be no more certain of their salvation than the OSAS people can be.

FreeGrace2 · Oct 8, 2020

Albion said:
While I've read many people saying essentially the same thing, I don't see where Eternal Security (OSAS) and knowing for certain that you are saved are dependent upon each other.

For that matter, the people who reject OSAS in favor of freewill can be no more certain of their salvation than the OSAS people can be.

Anyone who has placed their full trust alone in Christ alone for their salvation can and should be certain because of what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life: "they shall never perish".

Those who believe that salvation can be lost don't believe what Jesus said.

BrotherJJ · Oct 8, 2020

Zimmer36 said:
Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do? Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away. That only if u endure to the end u r saved. So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it? theres always that what if im weak what if i dont endure what if im doing a certain sin,etc etc. im just really confused about this and really worried about where i stand with God

He that endures to the end shall be saved.

Matt 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

Scripture Study Tips

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^^^

So, ask: Who is writing? Who’s it written to? What are the circumstances? What’s the context before? What's the context after?

Invariably Matt 24:13 is posted, OUT OF CONTEXT.

Matt 24:13 Proper Context. Who is the speaker? JESUS

Context: Who is Jesus speaking to? Verse 2 still under the law Jewish disciples. This is day 3 of passion week. The Holy Spirit has yet to be given, therefore, no Body of Christ/Christian exist.

Context: What is Jesus speaking about? Verse 3 the end of the age. The end of your life? NO!

Context: Verses 4-13 The prophecy here parallels the END TIME seal judgments:

Matt 24: Vs 5 - Rev 6:2 false Christs, Vs 6 - Rev 6:3&4 war, Vs 7 - Rev: 5&6, Famine, Vs 6&7 - Rev 6:7&8 death, Vs 9-13 - Rev 6:6-11 martyers

Matt 24:14 the gospel of the kingdom =100% under Jewish law doctrine. Quote: "and then shall the end come". The end of one's life? NO!

Vs 15 references Daniel & the abomination of desolation

Vs 16 let those where? in Judea! NOT A CHURCH GOER IN THE USA!

Vs 21 there shall be great tribulation. In your life? No! Vs 27 Christ returns. Vs 29 After the tribulation of those days, NOT your life!

Context: Matt 24 Jesus is speaking to "Jews only about Israel's Future" Foretelling the tribulation period to come. BTW the tribulation is referred to as JACOB/ISRAELS TROUBLE. Jeremiah 30:7

When reading Vs 13, he who endures to the end. One must take from scripture via context. Not add to scripture one's own false non-contextual, doctrinal narrative.

Example:
Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Ok, Jesus tells his disciples DON'T go to gentiles. Would we be correct to broad brush this statement Jesus made here & apply it to the Church today? We can't broadly paint the future Body of Christ into Matt 10 or Matt 24.

All scripture was written for us. Not all scripture is written to us.

Romans 15:4 (A) whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning
(NOTE: Not all scripture is written for our doctrine. Example: Are we required to bring a sin sacrifice to the Temple?)

Once saved always saved. False?

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