Any Holy Spirit Revival leading multitudes to Sabbath observance?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
S

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,178
627
65
Michigan
✟327,521.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
The Bible makes very clear how important the Holy Spirit is in the life of the Christian. We have the example of Jesus himself in passages such as:

Matthew 3:15-17
15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
​
Matthew 4:1-3
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”​

Luke 4:13-15
13 When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. 14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.​

We observe the same power of the Holy Spirit being promised to the disciples:

Acts 1:6-8
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
​
And in fact, the whole book of Acts is full of accounts of how the Holy Spirit manifested powerfully through the apostles and disciples, including the Gentiles:

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
​
There are many passages in the New Testament stressing the importance of living a Spirit-filled and Spirit-led life and receiving power through the Spirit for witnessing:

1 Corinthians 2:1-5
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
​
Romans 8:4-14
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
​
Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
​
Ephesians 5:20
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.​
_________________________________________

We can also see examples of the Holy Spirit leading and giving instructions to the apostles and disciples:

Acts 8:29
Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.”​

Acts 8:38-40
38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea. (** teleportation by the Spirit :sunglasses:)​

Acts 10:19-20
While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself.”​

Acts 11:12
The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man’s house.​

Acts 13:2
While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”​

Acts 13:4
So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.​

Acts 15:28
“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:​

Acts 16:6
They passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia;​

Acts 16:7
and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;​

Acts 20:22
And now, behold, bound by the Spirit, I am on my way to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there,
​
__________________________________________________

I hope that by now it should be quite clear how important it is for a Christian to walk guided and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Now, back to the Sabbath. If not observing the Sabbath is as immoral as raping, killing, stealing or fornication, then we should expect the Holy Spirit to quickly lead people to keep the Sabbath. In particular, during a Holy Spirit revival, where the Holy Spirit moves touching many people's hearts and leading them into repentance and salvation (take Acts 2 as an example), one should expect to see a widespread adoption of Sabbath observance by multitudes (just like you would expect to see multitudes abandoning other sins and embracing holiness).

It turns out that there are many recorded cases of revivals throughout history. However, in all of these cases we fail to see a widespread adoption of Sabbath observance (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday). Below you can find multiple examples of revivals illustrating the point:
How come that in so many revivals throughout history we do not see the Holy Spirit leading people toward the widespread observance of the Sabbath (from Friday evening to Saturday evening)?
Click to expand...

You omitted an important scripture from the rock Jesus built His Curch on.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

And again;

Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

This "broad way" that "many" are on, Do you believe the leaders of this way are declaring "Come, follow us on this path that leads to destruction"?

Or are they false teachers, who declare, "Come follow us on the path to eternal life"?

As for all these historical religious events, didn't the Christ already warn His People about them?

Jer. 6: 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Consider the following Word's of Jesus;

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

These men who no longer walked with Jesus, Do you believe they became Atheists? Or did they just create their own religion more suitable to them? What spirit was on them?

These are all important Scriptures to consider when asking why Jesus walked in the Sabbath of God but all these other religious men did not. Jesus Himself may have the answer to your questions regarding the Sabbath.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So iniquity is serious stuff it seems. Who shall we go to, in order to find our what God's Deems is iniquity?

Those walking in the "Broad way" followed by "many"? Or shall we blot out the "other voice" in the garden and follow Peter's instructions?

As Jesus Himself said;

"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by Every Word which proceeds from the Mouth of God"

Food for thought.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: truthisfreedom2019
Upvote 0
eleos1954

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,810
5,656
Utah
✟721,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
TruthSeek3r said:
The Bible makes very clear how important the Holy Spirit is in the life of the Christian. We have the example of Jesus himself in passages such as:

Matthew 3:15-17
15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
​
Matthew 4:1-3
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”​

Luke 4:13-15
13 When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. 14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.​

We observe the same power of the Holy Spirit being promised to the disciples:

Acts 1:6-8
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
​
And in fact, the whole book of Acts is full of accounts of how the Holy Spirit manifested powerfully through the apostles and disciples, including the Gentiles:

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
​
There are many passages in the New Testament stressing the importance of living a Spirit-filled and Spirit-led life and receiving power through the Spirit for witnessing:

1 Corinthians 2:1-5
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
​
Romans 8:4-14
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
​
Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
​
Ephesians 5:20
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.​
_________________________________________

We can also see examples of the Holy Spirit leading and giving instructions to the apostles and disciples:

Acts 8:29
Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.”​

Acts 8:38-40
38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea. (** teleportation by the Spirit :sunglasses:)​

Acts 10:19-20
While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself.”​

Acts 11:12
The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man’s house.​

Acts 13:2
While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”​

Acts 13:4
So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.​

Acts 15:28
“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:​

Acts 16:6
They passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia;​

Acts 16:7
and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;​

Acts 20:22
And now, behold, bound by the Spirit, I am on my way to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there,
​
__________________________________________________

I hope that by now it should be quite clear how important it is for a Christian to walk guided and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Now, back to the Sabbath. If not observing the Sabbath is as immoral as raping, killing, stealing or fornication, then we should expect the Holy Spirit to quickly lead people to keep the Sabbath. In particular, during a Holy Spirit revival, where the Holy Spirit moves touching many people's hearts and leading them into repentance and salvation (take Acts 2 as an example), one should expect to see a widespread adoption of Sabbath observance by multitudes (just like you would expect to see multitudes abandoning other sins and embracing holiness).

It turns out that there are many recorded cases of revivals throughout history. However, in all of these cases we fail to see a widespread adoption of Sabbath observance (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday). Below you can find multiple examples of revivals illustrating the point:
How come that in so many revivals throughout history we do not see the Holy Spirit leading people toward the widespread observance of the Sabbath (from Friday evening to Saturday evening)?
Click to expand...

I believe the Holy Spirit IS reminding people about keeping the Sabbath holy (set apart from other days) that's why there is being so much discussion about it continuously.

Either we follow in the footsteps of Jesus or not.

The devil is always deceivingly distorting the word of God .... ie .... to Eve ...

Did God really say ...

Genesis 3

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

Did God really say .... remember the Sabbath and keep it holy (set apart from all other days) ....

Same ole tactics being used by satan ... cast doubt on the Word of God.

Jesus is our example to follow ... He kept the 7th day Sabbath, declared He is Lord over it .... even in His death He rested in the grave.
 
  • Agree
  • Like
  • Winner
Reactions: BobRyan, SabbathBlessings, truthisfreedom2019 and 1 other person
Upvote 0
D

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟552,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
imge said:
God has Blessed the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Here is some information maybe you are not familiar with.

The SDA is one of the fastest growing denominations with over 20 million members. Adventists’ Back-to-Basics Faith is Fastest Growing U.S. Church – Mar 11 | Adventist Today It also has one of the best healthcare systems in the nation (Adventist Health). The second largest school system in the world Seventh-day Adventist Schools | K12 Academics Loma Linda the largest congregation of SDA is one of 5 in the world, the only one in the US, to live the longest These Americans live seven to eleven years longer. What's their secret?

The problem that most Christians seem to have an issue with is over the 4th commandment, keeping the Sabbath because it interferes with their worldly lifestyle. You can't serve two masters. You are either with God or against Him there are no other choices. God saves us through grace but asks us to keep His commandments.

Revelations 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city
Click to expand...
I don’t follow Ellen White or her religion of Seventh Day Adventism - she was a Masonic false-prophet.
 
  • Useful
  • Agree
Reactions: Danthemailman and truthisfreedom2019
Upvote 0
SabbathBlessings

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,126
4,255
USA
✟480,159.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Dkh587 said:
I don’t follow Ellen White or her religion of Seventh Day Adventism - she was a Masonic false-prophet.
Click to expand...
You don't have to believe in the SDA church, God gave us all free will. I also don't think that's your call to say Ellen White was a false prophet. She never called herself a prophet, only a messenger. Steps to Christ by Ellen White has brought more people to Christ, you can tell she loved God with all her heart. While she may of helped form the SDA church the church follows the Holy scripture for our teachings.
 
Upvote 0
LoveGodsWord

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Dkh587 said:
I don’t follow Ellen White or her religion of Seventh Day Adventism - she was a Masonic false-prophet.
Click to expand...
No one follows Ellen White that I know. It is not her religion and no she was not a Masonic false prophet. I think you will find you have been fed false information and that we have many essential core beliefs in common in regards to the scriptures. So what is it you do not believe?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
T

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
LoveGodsWord said:
I think it amazing these continuation of anti-sabbath threads, as soon as one is started and gets shot down with scripture it's all abandon ship and run off to a new one to see how we go from another angle of attack.
Click to expand...

Actually I'll be back to your post #19 and similar ones as soon as a I have the time. I'm studying a PhD and have other stuff to do, so addressing each one of your super long posts will probably take me a bunch of hours which at the moment I can't afford (especially since, unlike you, I don't have a battery of past posts to copy and paste from -- unless you always remember all the verses and type all your posts from scratch, hats off to your amazing typing skills if that's the case). In other words, be patient. Furthermore, the reason for the different threads is precisely because they address the problem from different angles. In particular, this thread is the one that interests me the most because it is the most "scientific" or "empirical" if you will. I actually tried to discuss this topic in another thread but the point was completely disregarded, so I had no choice but to start this one to make it the main topic.

LoveGodsWord said:
Anyhow, there is no denying the scriptures and no running away from them. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that knowingly break the commandments of God *Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Romans 3:4; Matthew 15:3-9.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

LoveGodsWord said:
Getting back to your new OP simply it is the scriptures that teach (not me) that the many will be called but only the few will be chosen *Matthew 24:14, wide is the gate the leads to destruction and the many go in thereat but narrow is the way that leads to life and few that be that find it *Matthew 7:13-14
Click to expand...

No problem with those verses, but none of them mentions the Sabbath.

LoveGodsWord said:
and again the many will say to JESUS in that day Lord Lord... but I will say to them depart from me you who sin (break God's commandments) I never knew you *Matthew 7:21-23.
Click to expand...

Not sure which Bible version you are quoting here. I checked the NIV and it says:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’​

And KJV says:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

The text never says "break God's commandments", but even if I grant you that interpretation, that still doesn't prove that "not working from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday" is among them. That's just nowhere in Matthew 7:21-23.

LoveGodsWord said:
God's saints (God's people) according to the scriptures are described as a remnant that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of JESUS *Revelation 14:12.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But again, this raises the question: what are the commandments that the text is talking about? And before you answer "the 10 commandments" (which obviously is what your are implicitly trying to say), let me remind you that there are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments: Does the expression "Commandments of God" in Revelation 14:12 refer to the ten commandments on stone tablets given to Moses?.

But before you respond with a 300 lines long answer, let me remind you that discussing this is not this thread's main topic, so I kindly ask you not to hijack the thread by starting a doctrinal debate that would be off-topic here.

LoveGodsWord said:
Your looking in all the wrong places to find the truth of Gods' Word.
Click to expand...

Since here you are just stating a claim without providing logical arguments to back it up, this is just a unsubstantiated claim, so I won't even bother to address this.

_______________________________________________________________

Now, the essence of your position, if I understand what you are trying to say correctly, is that people who fail to keep the Sabbath are walking the wide path to Hell, and those who do keep the Sabbath are walking the narrow path to Heaven (correct me if I'm wrong). That's why you completely disregarded the 12 revivals I enumerated in the OP, because, according to my understanding of what you said, they are all waking the wide path that leads to Hell. If that's an accurate description of your position, then I think you have a lot to explain.

First of all, let's make sure that we agree in a few points:

1) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts people of sin? (Yes/no?)

John 16:7-11
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.​

2) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads people to repentance? (Yes/no?)

Acts 14:41
14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 “‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

[...]

33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’ 36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.​

3) Do you agree with me that God does not want anyone to perish, but rather that everyone repents and gets saved? (Yes, no?)

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.​

4) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one that changes people's hearts? (Yes/no?)

Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.​

5) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads the Christian to live a holy life? (Yes/no?)

Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.​

6) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to be witnesses of Jesus Christ? (Yes/no?)

Acts 1:6-8
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

1 Corinthians 2:1-5
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.​

I will assume you have answered yes to all the 6 questions above. Now, by your own admission, breaking the Sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) is a terrible sin that is sending people to Hell (since you cited Matthew 7:13-14 about the wide path vs narrow path). So, 1) given the merciful and life-changing qualities of the Holy Spirit and 2) given how terrible breaking the Sabbath is (which by your own admission is sending people to Hell), a logical conclusion from these 2 points is that you would predict that the Holy Spirit would quickly convict people of this terrible sin, leading multitudes to repentance and to keep the Sabbath. Because, think about it, if the Holy Spirit doesn't convict them about it and people continue breaking the Sabbath each week, they will wind up in Hell. So, if the Holy Spirit is merciful and wants sincere seekers to get saved, He will for sure convict them of that terrible sin and lead them to keep the Sabbath. Right?

PARADOXICALLY, however, we don't see that happening in many revivals. I already presented to you 12 revivals in the OP that illustrate the point.

Take the Argentine Revival as an example (since that's the one I know more about, as I already read two books on the matter, concretely this one and this one --- btw, I invite you to read these books, or at least check out the summaries and the reviews on Amazon). In the Argentine Revival we find accounts of:
  • People being delivered from drug addictions, alcohol addictions and substance addictions in general.
  • Criminals converting.
  • Prostitutes converting.
  • Marriages being restored.
  • People getting baptized in the Holy Spirit.
  • People receiving spiritual gifts.
  • People getting on fire for the Lord.
  • Testimonies of miraculous healings.
  • Testimonies of people getting delivered from demons.
  • Former witchcraft practitioners converting to Christ.
  • Testimonies of supernatural protection.
  • Testimonies of spiritual warfare.
  • People praying all night long seeking the presence of God.
  • Supernatural experiences with angels.
  • People crowding football stadiums just to hear the Gospel being preached (check out this video as an example).
  • Also, check out this worship service from the Argentine Revival.
  • Etc.
Again, if you don't believe me, I invite you to read the two books I mentioned before, and to research the Argentine Revival on your own. In fact, the whole Brownsville Revival (1995) was a spin-off of the Argentine Revival. Steve Hill, the main evangelist behind the revival at Pensacola, spent 7 years in Argentina as a missionary, working with Carlos Annacondia. You can watch Steve Hill testifying about his experiences during the Argentine Revival in an interview with Sid Roth:
.

Also, you can watch Steve Hill's testimony about his supernatural conversion from a drug addict to an evangelist and a few remarkable supernatural experiences during the Browsnville Revival here:
.

And again, in the Brownsville Revival we see similar stuff happening:
  • Millions of people visiting the revival, getting convicted of their sins, repenting and converting.
  • Marriages restored.
  • People getting on fire for the Lord.
  • People quitting drugs, alcohol, sex, fornication, etc.
  • People getting baptized in the Holy Spirit, receiving spiritual gifts, etc.
  • Feel free to check out a few testimonies here:
In short, in all these revivals we see people repenting of all kinds of sins, lives getting transformed, people on fire for Jesus, etc. The only thing we never see is people keeping the Sabbath. No one is getting convicted to keep the Sabbath. How come? Isn't the Holy Spirit merciful? How come that the Holy Spirit convicted people of all kinds of sins, but somehow forgot about the Sabbath? In these revivals we see people quitting drugs, quitting witchcraft, getting miraculously healed, getting delivered from demons, quitting prostitution, quitting anger, hatred, forgiving others, getting baptized in the Holy Spirit, people spending hours in prayer interceding for others, I mean, we see everything ... the only thing we never see is people getting convicted to keep the Sabbath. Strange, don't you think? Because if they don't keep the Sabbath, they will go to Hell, right?

So, what is the explanation?

Also, probably of interest: How do seventh day Sabbatarians explain the lack of Sabbath observing following Spirit led revivals?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
T

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Dkh587 said:
The Holy Spirit has been leading revivals for thousands of years as He has been pleading with God’s people to keep his Sabbath holy.
Click to expand...

Would you mind sharing reported cases of revivals where the widespread observance of the Sabbath was an outcome?

Dkh587 said:
If someone is claiming to have a revival, yet there is no leading to the obedience of keeping the Sabbath holy, well then, I question that revival.

how is it a revival if there is no leading to repentance and the obedience of God’s commandments? The Holy Spirit does not “revive” someone to disobedience.

the Prophets cried out, and still cry out for repentance and obedience to God’s commandments, including the Sabbath.

I don’t want whatever “spirit” is leading these so-called “revivals” that do not revive people to go back to God’s way of living.
Click to expand...

To avoid repeating myself, I invite you to read post #26 in which I provide a detailed response to @LoveGodsWord and touch the topic of revivals where the widespread observance of the Sabbath was not an outcome.
 
Upvote 0
LoveGodsWord

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
Actually I'll be back to your post #19 and similar ones as soon as a I have the time. I'm studying a PhD and have other stuff to do, so addressing each one of your super long posts will probably take me a bunch of hours which at the moment I can't afford (especially since, unlike you, I don't have a battery of past posts to copy and paste from -- unless you always remember all the verses and type all your posts from scratch, hats off to your amazing typing skills if that's the case). In other words, be patient. Furthermore, the reason for the different threads is precisely because they address the problem from different angles. In particular, this thread is the one that interests me the most because it is the most "scientific" or "empirical" if you will. I actually tried to discuss this topic in another thread but the point was completely disregarded, so I had no choice but to start this one to make it the main topic.



Agreed.



No problem with those verses, but none of them mentions the Sabbath.



Not sure which Bible version you are quoting here. I checked the NIV and it says:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’​

And KJV says:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

The text never says "break God's commandments", but even if I grant you that interpretation, that still doesn't prove that "not working from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday" is among them. That's just nowhere in Matthew 7:21-23.



Agreed. But again, this raises the question: what are the commandments that the text is talking about? And before you answer "the 10 commandments" (which obviously is what your are implicitly trying to say), let me remind you that there are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments: Does the expression "Commandments of God" in Revelation 14:12 refer to the ten commandments on stone tablets given to Moses?.

But before you respond with a 300 lines long answer, let me remind you that discussing this is not this thread's main topic, so I kindly ask you not to hijack the thread by starting a doctrinal debate that would be off-topic here.



Since here you are just stating a claim without providing logical arguments to back it up, this is just a unsubstantiated claim, so I won't even bother to address this.

_______________________________________________________________

Now, the essence of your position, if I understand what you are trying to say correctly, is that people who fail to keep the Sabbath are walking the wide path to Hell, and those who do keep the Sabbath are walking the narrow path to Heaven (correct me if I'm wrong). That's why you completely disregarded the 12 revivals I enumerated in the OP, because, according to my understanding of what you said, they are all waking the wide path that leads to Hell. If that's an accurate description of your position, then I think you have a lot to explain.

First of all, let's make sure that we agree in a few points:

1) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts people of sin? (Yes/no?)

John 16:7-11
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.​

2) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads people to repentance? (Yes/no?)

Acts 14:41
14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 “‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

[...]

33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’ 36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.​

3) Do you agree with me that God does not want anyone to perish, but rather that everyone repents and gets saved? (Yes, no?)

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.​

4) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one that changes people's hearts? (Yes/no?)

Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.​

5) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads the Christian to live a holy life? (Yes/no?)

Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.​

6) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to be witnesses of Jesus Christ? (Yes/no?)

Acts 1:6-8
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

1 Corinthians 2:1-5
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.​

I will assume you have answered yes to all the 6 questions above. Now, by your own admission, breaking the Sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) is a terrible sin that is sending people to Hell (since you cited Matthew 7:13-14 about the wide path vs narrow path). So, 1) given the merciful and life-changing qualities of the Holy Spirit and 2) given how terrible breaking the Sabbath is (which by your own admission is sending people to Hell), a logical conclusion from these 2 points is that you would predict that the Holy Spirit would quickly convict people of this terrible sin, leading multitudes to repentance and to keep the Sabbath. Because, think about it, if the Holy Spirit doesn't convict them about it and people continue breaking the Sabbath each week, they will wind up in Hell. So, if the Holy Spirit is merciful and wants sincere seekers to get saved, He will for sure convict them of that terrible sin and lead them to keep the Sabbath. Right?

PARADOXICALLY, however, we don't see that happening in many revivals. I already presented to you 12 revivals in the OP that illustrate the point.

Take the Argentine Revival as an example (since that's the one I know more about, as I already read two books on the matter, concretely this one and this one --- btw, I invite you to read these books, or at least check out the summaries and the reviews on Amazon). In the Argentine Revival we find accounts of:
  • People being delivered from drug addictions, alcohol addictions and substance addictions in general.
  • Criminals converting.
  • Prostitutes converting.
  • Marriages being restored.
  • People getting baptized in the Holy Spirit.
  • People receiving spiritual gifts.
  • People getting on fire for the Lord.
  • Testimonies of miraculous healings.
  • Testimonies of people getting delivered from demons.
  • Former witchcraft practitioners converting to Christ.
  • Testimonies of supernatural protection.
  • Testimonies of spiritual warfare.
  • People praying all night long seeking the presence of God.
  • Supernatural experiences with angels.
  • People crowding football stadiums just to hear the Gospel being preached (check out this video as an example).
  • Also, check out this worship service from the Argentine Revival.
  • Etc.
Again, if you don't believe me, I invite you to read the two books I mentioned before, and to research the Argentine Revival on your own. In fact, the whole Brownsville Revival (1995) was a spin-off of the Argentine Revival. Steve Hill, the main evangelist behind the revival at Pensacola, spent 7 years in Argentina as a missionary, working with Carlos Annacondia. You can watch Steve Hill testifying about his experiences during the Argentine Revival in an interview with Sid Roth:
.

Also, you can watch Steve Hill's testimony about his supernatural conversion from a drug addict to an evangelist and a few remarkable supernatural experiences during the Browsnville Revival here:
.

And again, in the Brownsville Revival we see similar stuff happening:
  • Millions of people visiting the revival, getting convicted of their sins, repenting and converting.
  • Marriages restored.
  • People getting on fire for the Lord.
  • People quitting drugs, alcohol, sex, fornication, etc.
  • People getting baptized in the Holy Spirit, receiving spiritual gifts, etc.
  • Feel free to check out a few testimonies here:
In short, in all these revivals we see people repenting of all kinds of sins, lives getting transformed, people on fire for Jesus, etc. The only thing we never see is people keeping the Sabbath. No one is getting convicted to keep the Sabbath. How come? Isn't the Holy Spirit merciful? How come that the Holy Spirit convicted people of all kinds of sins, but somehow forgot about the Sabbath? In these revivals we see people quitting drugs, quitting witchcraft, getting miraculously healed, getting delivered from demons, quitting prostitution, quitting anger, hatred, forgiving others, getting baptized in the Holy Spirit, people spending hours in prayer interceding for others, I mean, we see everything ... the only thing we never see is people getting convicted to keep the Sabbath. Strange, don't you think? Because if they don't keep the Sabbath, they will go to Hell, right?

So, what is the explanation?

Also, probably of interest: How do seventh day Sabbatarians explain the lack of Sabbath observing following Spirit led revivals?
Click to expand...

I see, so your response to my posts and the scriptures provided is to spam the word of website that does not address the content of my posts and the scriptures being discussed? I have heard it all before and the same thing seems to always happen. Once the scriptures and context are added back to the claims that are made those who disagree with the scriptures always abandon ship and disappear. Happy to talk scripture with you. Let me know when your ready. Until then we will have to agree to disagree. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. You have yet to provide a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken as been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Does this not worry you? It should. God's Word according to the scriptures are a blessing if we believe and follow it or a curse if we reject it once given a knowledge of the truth of His Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31. God's Word becomes our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures *Matthew 12:47-48. As posted earlier it is the many that are lost and the few that are chosen according to God's Word. It is the few that are chosen and the remnant that are God's people that keep all of God's commandments according to the scriptures. Your looking for the truth of God's Word in all the wrong places. You will not find it in the word of website and signs and wonders. The Egyptian magicians could also make snakes and who gave them their power? May God bless you as you seek him through his Word. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
T

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
@guevaraj:
First of all, you presented Millerism as an alleged Spirit-led revival promoting Sabbath-keeping. However, I explained to you why it clearly wasn't:
  • William Miller was evidently a false prophet by definition, since he made a prophesy about Jesus returning to Earth by 1844, which didn't happen (see the Great Disappointment).
  • Sabbath-keeping was not even a widespread practice, in fact it was followed by a minority of Millerites and "was one of the schismatic issues debated at the Albany Conferences" (see Millerism > Doctrine).
  • Seventh-day Sabbath-keeping only received a real boost when Thomas Preble published a tract that was widely read by Miller's followers. However, 2 years later Thomas Preble completely changed his mind and "repudiated the Sabbath and later wrote some articles against the Seventh-Day Sabbath in The World's Crisis and a book, entitled First-Day Sabbath". (see T. M. Preble).
So William Miller was a false prophet by definition, Sabbath-keeping was a controversial topic among Millerites and only followed by a minority, and the guy who gave a boost to the doctrine changed his mind and repudiated it 2 years later ... seriously, do you really call this a Spirit-led Sabbath-keeping revival?

guevaraj said:
Brother, you seem to think that having the Holy Spirit forces you to do what you don't want to do?
Click to expand...

He doesn't "force" you in the sense of overriding your free will, but He can clearly change your heart, your motivations, lead you and empower you, in fact, that's the whole point of the Holy Spirit:

Acts 1:6-8
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

Romans 8:13-14
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18-20
18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

guevaraj said:
God does not force you. God expects you to "love the truth"!
Click to expand...

I agree, but the change of heart conducing to that is responsibility of the Holy Spirit.

guevaraj said:
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NIV)​
Click to expand...
​
This passage is talking about the "the man of lawlessness", usually equated with the Antichrist (source: Man of sin - Wikipedia). But if you keep reading 2 Thessalonians 2 you will see who is the one to protect us from his lies:

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

See? The Holy Spirit is the one who empowers, sanctifies, changes the heart, guides, leads, gives spiritual gifts, convicts of sin, etc.

If someone is not keeping the Sabbath and by doing so is constricting the Holy Spirit, you should expect the Holy Spirit to convict the person of sin and lead them to repentance and Sabbath keeping. How come we don't see that happening in so many revivals?

Probably of interest: How do seventh day Sabbatarians explain the lack of Sabbath observing following Spirit led revivals?
 
Upvote 0
T

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
imge said:
God has Blessed the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Click to expand...

Not sure how you can prove that statement but anyways, let's read on ...

imge said:
Here is some information maybe you are not familiar with.

The SDA is one of the fastest growing denominations with over 20 million members. Adventists’ Back-to-Basics Faith is Fastest Growing U.S. Church – Mar 11 | Adventist Today
Click to expand...

This argument is terrible for multiple reasons:
  • The very site you provided as your source has lots of contrary and skeptical comments showing how unconvincing it is.
  • By the same token, Pentecostalism has been around less than SDAs and has reached more membership. Pentecostalism's main sparking event was the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, and since then it has reached over 279 million members worldwide (source: Pentecostalism - Wikipedia).
  • Similarly, SDAs are not too far away from Mormons (about 17 million members - source) and Jehovah's Witnesses (about 9 million members - source).
imge said:
It also has one of the best healthcare systems in the nation (Adventist Health).
Click to expand...

Any sources to back up this claim?

imge said:
The second largest school system in the world Seventh-day Adventist Schools | K12 Academics
Click to expand...

Ok, but by the same token one should conclude that "God has blessed" the Catholics even more.

imge said:
Loma Linda the largest congregation of SDA is one of 5 in the world, the only one in the US, to live the longest These Americans live seven to eleven years longer. What's their secret?
Click to expand...

Again, this argument is also terrible, the other 4 blue zones are not Sabbath-keeping communities (source: 5 Places Where People Live the Longest and Healthiest Lives), so the whole argument falls apart.

imge said:
The problem that most Christians seem to have an issue with is over the 4th commandment, keeping the Sabbath because it interferes with their worldly lifestyle.
Click to expand...
Living a worldly lifestyle is a problem for pretty much everything. If you live a worldly lifestyle, you cannot set aside 40 days for fasting and praying, for example (like Jesus did). You cannot pray all night long if you live worldly lifestyle, you cannot wake up at 3:00 AM to pray if you live a worldly lifestyle. You cannot do intercessory prayer or engage in spiritual warfare if you live a worldly lifestyle. Living a worldly lifestyle is a problem in and of itself, it has nothing to do with the Sabbath. Whether Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath, however, is a completely different issue.

imge said:
You can't serve two masters. You are either with God or against Him there are no other choices. God saves us through grace but asks us to keep His commandments.

Revelations 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city
Click to expand...

Agreed. But again, this raises the question: what are the commandments that the text is talking about? And before you answer "the 10 commandments" (which obviously is what your are implicitly trying to say), let me remind you that there are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments: Does the expression "Commandments of God" in Revelation 14:12 refer to the ten commandments on stone tablets given to Moses?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
LoveGodsWord

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
Furthermore, the reason for the different threads is precisely because they address the problem from different angles.
Click to expand...
Yet everyone of your objections and threads have been addressed with a detailed scripture response proving that the claims put forward are not biblical once the context is added back and the detail examined. Does this not worry you? At the very least it should give you something to think about and pray about. As what we are discussing is an issue that will keep many out of God's kingdom if they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it in order to continue in a life of known unrepentant sin once they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word according to the scriptures *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31. At the end of the day if what you are promoting is correct, I will see you in Gods kingdom so it dose not matter what each of us believe. If what you are saying is wrong and the scriptures shared with you from God's Word is correct, then I will not see you. Now, where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? - Yep there is none. Something to pray about dear friend don't you think? My prayer of course is that I will not only see you in God's kingdom but everyone here.
LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Getting back to your new OP simply it is the scriptures that teach (not me) that the many will be called but only the few will be chosen *Matthew 24:14, wide is the gate the leads to destruction and the many go in thereat but narrow is the way that leads to life and few that be that find it *Matthew 7:13-14
Click to expand...
Your response here...
TruthSeek3r said:
No problem with those verses, but none of them mentions the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
Why do these verses have to mention the Sabbath? They were never mean't to address or mention the Sabbath. This was a part response to your OP here in regards to the "Holy Spirit leading a revival to leading multitudes to observe the Sabbath." It has never been about the Holy Spirit leading a revival to keep the Sabbath. This is simply a strawman argument that has no basis in the truth of God's Word. The revival is always about leading people to Christ and to love God with all of the heart through faith in the risen Saviour of the World (JESUS) and because we are saved by God's grace doing and following what God's Word asks us to do *John 14:15. I could respond to the fact that over 20,000,000 are currently active and new members and followers of JESUS through His Word and part of God's people who are a Sabbath keeping Church that is the 5th largest world-wide denomination but that is not the point. The point posted earlier is that God's people have always only been a remnant and always will be according to the scriptures.
TruthSeek3r said:
Not sure which Bible version you are quoting here. I checked the NIV and it says:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’​

And KJV says:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

The text never says "break God's commandments", but even if I grant you that interpretation, that still doesn't prove that "not working from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday" is among them. That's just nowhere in Matthew 7:21-23.
Click to expand...

Actually no the scripture actually says "lawlessness G458" which means in the Greek, breaking the law or sin. The Greek word used here is G458 ἀνομία; anomia and means to transgress the law or violate the law or to practice sin. The scriptures also define sin as the transgression of God's law in 1 JOHN 3:4.

In Matthew 7:23 this Greek Word is combined with G2038 ἐργάζομαι; ergazomai which means "to do" or "doing" or to "practice" (present tense); to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc.: - commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

So those who JESUS says to depart from him are those who are practicing sin which is defined in the scriptures are breaking God's law *1 JOHN 3:4 which is the verb and the present tense indicative.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong
G458 ἀνομία; anomia From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

THE LEXHAM BIBLE DICTIONARY
G458 ἀνομία anŏmia SIN Human activity that is contrary to God’s will.

CONCISE DICTIONARY OF THE WORDS IN THE GREEK TESTAMENT AND HEBREW BIBLE G458. ἀνομία anŏmia, an-om-ee´-ah; from 459; illegality, i.e. violation of law or (gen.) wickedness:—iniquity, × transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

1 JOHN 3:4

BDAG A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT AND OTHER EARLY CHRISTIAN LITERATURE 3rd Ed.
G458 ἀνομία, ας, ἡ (Eur., Hdt., Pre-Socr. et al.; pap, LXX, pseudepigr., Philo; Jos., Bell. 1, 493, Ant. 15, 348; Ar. 11, 7; Just., D. 14, 1; 18, 2; 24, 3; Ath., R. 71, 6; Mel., P. 68, 486; Orig., C. Cels. 6, 44, 31; Did., Gen. The product of a lawless disposition, a lawless deed Ro 6:19b. λυτρώσασθαι ἀπὸ πάσης ἀ. (Ps 129:8) redeem fr. all lawlessness, i.e. l. deeds Tit 2:14. ἐργάζεσθαι ἀ. (oft. LXX) Mt 7:23; Hm 10, 3, 2; ἐργάτης ἀ. 2 Cl 4:5; ἀ. ποιεῖν (Hos 6:9; Is 5:7 al.; TestDan 3:2; TestGad 2:5 v.l.; cp. πράττειν ἀ. Ar. 11, 7) Mt 13:41; 1J 3:4; 1 Cl 16:10 (Is 53:9); more specif. ἐν στόματι commit sin with the mouth B 10:8; λαλεῖν ἀ. κατά τινός 1 Cl 15:5 (Ps 34:19); ἁρπάζειν ἐν ἀ. seize lawlessly 10:4. Of Salome woe is me for my sin and unbelief! GJs 20:1 (not pap). Pl. lawless deeds, trangressions (POxy 1121, 20; Herm. Wr. 1, 23; oft. LXX; Just., D. 18, 2) Ro 4:7 (Ps 31:1); Hb 8:12 v.l.; 10:17; 1 Cl 16:5, 9 (Is 53:8); 18:5, 9 (Ps 50:7, 11); 50:6 (Ps 31:1); 60:1; B 5:2 (Is 53:5); Hv 2, 2, 2; 3, 6, 4; Hs 5, 5, 3. (In ms. tradition ἀ. is oft. interchanged w. synonyms; so Hb 1:9 [ἀδικία]; 2 Th 2:3 [ἁμαρτία]; 1 Cl 35:5 as v.l. for πονηρία.)—AcPl BMM recto 26 restored fr. POxy 1602, 27 [ἀν]ομίας (for this ἐπιθυμίας AcPl Ha 8, 20), cp. AcPlCor 2:11.—Dodd 76–81. DELG s.v. νέμω. M-M. TW.

New Living Translation
But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

English Standard Version
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Berean Study Bible
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Berean Literal Bible
And then I will declare unto them, 'I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness.'

New American Standard Bible
"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

New King James Version
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

King James Bible
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Christian Standard Bible
Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers! '

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'

NET Bible
Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!'

New Heart English Bible
And then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'

A Faithful Version
And then I will confess to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who work lawlessness. '

New American Standard 1977
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

King James 2000 Bible
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

American King James Version
And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

American Standard Version
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Darby Bible Translation
and then will I avow unto them, I never knew you. Depart from me, workers of lawlessness.

Young's Literal Translation
and then I will acknowledge to them, that -- I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.

So you are incorrect dear friend Matthew 7:23 is talking about knowingly breaking God's law and continuing to do so. Hope the above is helpful.
LoveGodsWord said: ↑ God's saints (God's people) according to the scriptures are described as a remnant that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of JESUS *Revelation 14:12.
Click to expand...
Your response
TruthSeek3r said:
Agreed. But again, this raises the question: what are the commandments that the text is talking about? And before you answer "the 10 commandments" (which obviously is what your are implicitly trying to say), let me remind you that there are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments: Does the expression "Commandments of God" in Revelation 14:12 refer to the ten commandments on stone tablets given to Moses?. But before you respond with a 300 lines long answer, let me remind you that discussing this is not this thread's main topic, so I kindly ask you not to hijack the thread by starting a doctrinal debate that would be off-topic here
Click to expand...
Well if you agree here that Gods people are only a remnant how does your agreement with the scriptures provided support your OP as you have just disagreed with your own premise. It is quite easy to answer the rest of your post here as there is only one law in God's Word that gives us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS in the new covenant and that is God's Law (10 commandments) which was spoken by God alone to His people, which was the work of God alone and written with the finger of God alone on two tables of stone *Exodus 32:16; Exodus 20:1-17. Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant to God's people (scripture support here linked). According to Gods' Word (not mine) in the new covenant the purpose of God's law is the same as it always has been and that is to given is the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and righteousness when obeyed *Psalms 119:172. According to God's Word in the new covenant if we knowingly break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; James 4:17. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 7:7. Those who practice sin according to the new covenant scriptures, just like it says in Matthew 7:23 will not enter the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. Something to pray about don't you think?
TruthSeek3r said:
Now, the essence of your position, if I understand what you are trying to say correctly, is that people who fail to keep the Sabbath are walking the wide path to Hell, and those who do keep the Sabbath are walking the narrow path to Heaven (correct me if I'm wrong). That's why you completely disregarded the 12 revivals I enumerated in the OP, because, according to my understanding of what you said, they are all waking the wide path that leads to Hell. If that's an accurate description of your position, then I think you have a lot to explain.
Click to expand...
You have been corrected. You are wrong. If you do not know or are unsure of what one believes your best to ask. None of what you have said is true. What I believe is that if we have been born again in the Spirit and been given a new heart to love God we will keep his commandments. This is what the scriptures teach and what the new covenant is about. God's Sabbath is only one of God's 10 commandments where love is expressed in our duty of love to God *Hebres 8:10-12 (from Jeremaih 31:31-36). Follow these scriptures through *John 14:15; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:7; 1 John 5:4; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 2:3-4. God does not hold anyone accountable for sin untill he has given them a knowledge of the truth of his Word. Once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and we reject it in order to continue to practice sin then we are held accountable for sin as it is written in Hebrews 10:26-31.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
LoveGodsWord

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
First of all, let's make sure that we agree in a few points: 1) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts people of sin? (Yes/no?)
Click to expand...
Of course yes! Keep in mind though God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through the Word not outside of it as we believe and follow Gods Word...
JOHN 6:63 It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE.
JOHN 17:17 Sanctify them through the truth, thy Word is truth.
TruthSeek3r said:
2) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads people to repentance? (Yes/no?
Click to expand...
Of course yes! Keep in mind though God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through the Word not outside of it as we believe and follow Gods' Word... (see previous section John 6:63; John 17:17)
TruthSeek3r said:
3) Do you agree with me that God does not want anyone to perish, but rather that everyone repents and gets saved? (Yes, no?)
Click to expand...
Of course yes! Keep in mind though God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through the Word not outside of it as we believe and follow God's Word... (see previous section John 6:63; John 17:17)
TruthSeek3r said:
4) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one that changes people's hearts? (Yes/no?)
Click to expand...
Of course yes! Keep in mind though God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through the Word not outside of it as we believe and follow Gods' Word... (see previous section John 6:63; John 17:17)
TruthSeek3r said:
5) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads the Christian to live a holy life? (Yes/no?)
Click to expand...
Yeps as we believe and follow God's Word. *John 3:16-19
TruthSeek3r said:
6) Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to be witnesses of Jesus Christ? (Yes/no?)
Click to expand...
Yeps as we believe and follow God's Word. *John 3:16-19
TruthSeek3r said:
I will assume you have answered yes to all the 6 questions above. Now, by your own admission, breaking the Sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) is a terrible sin that is sending people to Hell (since you cited Matthew 7:13-14 about the wide path vs narrow path). So, 1) given the merciful and life-changing qualities of the Holy Spirit and 2) given how terrible breaking the Sabbath is (which by your own admission is sending people to Hell), a logical conclusion from these 2 points is that you would predict that the Holy Spirit would quickly convict people of this terrible sin, leading multitudes to repentance and to keep the Sabbath. Because, think about it, if the Holy Spirit doesn't convict them about it and people continue breaking the Sabbath each week, they will wind up in Hell. So, if the Holy Spirit is merciful and wants sincere seekers to get saved, He will for sure convict them of that terrible sin and lead them to keep the Sabbath. Right?
Click to expand...
No dear friend, as I have said and believe no such thing. As posted earlier what I believe is that if we need to be born again in the Spirit *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9 and receive a new heart *Ezekiel 36:25:27 to love God, we will keep his commandments. This is what the scriptures teach and what the new covenant is about *Hebrews 8:10-12. God's Sabbath is only one of God's 10 commandments where love is expressed as our duty of love to God Matthew 22:36-40 (from Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Follow these scriptures through *John 14:15; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:7; 1 John 5:4; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 2:3-4. God does not hold anyone accountable for sin untill he has given them a knowledge of the truth of his Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. Once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and we reject it by hardening our hearts to hearing his Word *Hebrews 3:8; Hebrews 3:15 in order to continue to practice sin we are held accountable for sin *James 4:17 as it is written in Hebrews 10:26-31. The bible does not teach everone will be saved like the faithful Bareans *Acts of the Apostles 17:11. God's Word teaches that the many will heap themselves together teachers having itching ears *2 Timothy 4:3-4 and will be lost *Matthew 7:21-23. The many, close their eyes and ears to hearing the truth of God's Word and will reject it and harden their hearts to the Spirits calling as spoken by Isaiah, Jesus and Paul *Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:15-16 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. The scriptures teach JESUS is standing at the foor of the heart knocking and if any man hear my Voice (the Word), and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me *Revelation 3:20. The question we must all ask ourselves is are we opening the door of our hearts to JESUS when he is calling us through his Word? Can we hear his knocking? Or will we harden our hearts to his calling (the Word).

Time for a prayerful search of the scriptures don't you think dear friend?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
guevaraj

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,065
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟542,517.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
TruthSeek3r said:
First of all, you presented Millerism as an alleged Spirit-led revival promoting Sabbath-keeping. However, I explained to you why it clearly wasn't ... seriously, do you really call this a Spirit-led Sabbath-keeping revival?
Click to expand...
Brother, I have biblical evidence that Millerism was a revival because it fits a Biblical model of a revival based on hearing “the words of the book” of God, words that impact the listener to renew their commitment to follow the word of God.

Josiah was eight years old when he became king. He ruled in Jerusalem for 31 years … Josiah did what was right in the eyes of the Lord. He lived the way King David had lived. He didn’t turn away from it to the right or the left … The king heard the words of the Book of the Law. When he did, he tore his royal robes … “Your heart was tender. You made yourself humble in the eyes of the Lord. You heard what I spoke against this place and its people. I said they would be under a curse. I told them they would be destroyed. You tore your royal robes and wept in front of me. And I have heard you,” announces the Lord. “You will join the members of your family who have already died. You will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the trouble I am going to bring on this place” ... He got rid of everything else the Lord hates that was in Judah and Jerusalem. He did it to carry out what the law required. That law was written in the book that Hilkiah the priest had found in the Lord’s temple. There was no king like Josiah either before him or after him. None of them turned to the Lord as he did. He obeyed the Lord with all his heart and all his soul. He obeyed him with all his strength. He did everything the Law of Moses required. (2 Kings 22:1-2, 11, 19-20, 23:24-25 NIV)​

That earlier commitment to follow the Lord is what happened to Millerites when they “heard the words of the book” of Daniel studied by William Miller and found this passage, which marked a date within their lifetime in 1844.

He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated." (Daniel 8:14 NIV)​

Unfortunately for the movement they did not understand what “the sanctuary will be reconsecrated” meant and they assumed it was the coming of Jesus when it meant the beginning of the judgment in heaven that takes place before the coming of Jesus corresponding to what is revealed in the previous chapter.

As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. (Daniel 7:9-10 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0
T

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
LoveGodsWord said:
I see, so your response to my posts is to spam word of website in response to the Words of God?
Click to expand...

I provided empirical evidence clearly showing that we don't see Sabbath-keeping as a widespread outcome of most revivals throughout history, which clearly contradicts your hypothesis that breaking the Sabbath is immoral. If breaking the Sabbath were in fact a direct ticket to Hell and as immoral as killing, raping or fornicating, then by all means you should expect the Holy Spirit to be quickly convicting people of such a terrible sin and leading them to keep the Sabbath, but we fail to see that happening in pretty much all revivals. In lots of revivals you see people abandoning all types of sins, but Sabbath keeping? nowhere to be seen.

I even illustrated the point providing more details about two particular revivals (that were in fact connected to each other): the Argentine Revival and the Brownsville Revival (read post #26 again if you missed it). These two revivals are astonishing by their magnitude and the testimonies you can come across in each one. But what about Sabbath-keeping in these two revivals? Uhmmm ... nothing much really.

Stop denying the evidence. Your hypothesis about the Sabbath makes predictions, and when tested against empirical evidence it fails the test.

LoveGodsWord said:
I have heard it all before and the same thing seems to always happen. Once the scriptures and context are added back to the claims that are made those who disagree with the scriptures always abandon ship and disappear.
Click to expand...

I already explained to you in post #26 that I will eventually post detailed answers to your 300+ lines long posts, but you will need to wait patiently for that since studying a PhD can sometimes take up almost all of my precious free time.

LoveGodsWord said:
Happy to talk scripture with you. Let me know when your ready.
Click to expand...
Sure, the system automatically sends you notifications when someone flags you or replies to one of your posts, so you shouldn't worry about that.

LoveGodsWord said:
Until then we will have to agree to disagree. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.
Click to expand...

I agree, but specifying what those commandments are is the controversial point in dispute. There are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we can find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments.

LoveGodsWord said:
You have yet to provide a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken as been abolished [...]
Click to expand...

I don't want to get too much off-topic (since this thread is mainly concerned with explaining the absence of Sabbath observing post Spirit-led revivals), but in an attempt to quickly respond to this:

The Bible is pretty clear in stating that the commandment to keep the Sabbath was exclusively for the Israelites, as indicated by Exodus 31:12-17:

12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. 14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”​

So I'm not saying that the commandment to keep the Sabbath has been abolished, but rather that its literal observance is a convenant sign between God and the Israelites. And guess what, the Gentiles are not Israelites.

However, in Hebrews 4 we are explained that there is a Sabbath-rest for the people of God, which is today, not the seventh day:

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.​

I encourage you to watch this short clip from Zac Poonen on the matter:

Zac Poonen - Do You Still Have to Keep the Sabbath Day? | New 2015

LoveGodsWord said:
[...] and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
Click to expand...

I never claimed this either. I never said we have to keep the Sunday.

LoveGodsWord said:
Does this not worry you? It should.
Click to expand...
What do you mean with "this"? What should I be worried about? I have answered each of your points up to here, and I don't see anything to be worried about.

LoveGodsWord said:
God's Word according to the scriptures are a blessing if we believe and follow it or a curse if we reject it once given a knowledge of the truth of His Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31.
Click to expand...

I agree with those passages, but again, they don't say anything about the Sabbath.

LoveGodsWord said:
God's Word becomes our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures *Matthew 12:47-48.
Click to expand...

47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”​

Wrong verses?

LoveGodsWord said:
As posted earlier it is the many that are lost and the few that are chosen according to God's Word.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

LoveGodsWord said:
It is the few that are chosen and the remnant that are God's people that keep all of God's commandments according to the scriptures.
Click to expand...

Yes, but again, we are back to the dilemma of what those commandments are. I already explained this a few paragraphs above, but will copy-paste it again for efficiency:

"I agree, but specifying what those commandments are is the controversial point in dispute. There are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we can find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments."​

LoveGodsWord said:
Your looking for the truth of God's Word in all the wrong places. You will not find it in the word of website and signs and wonders.
Click to expand...

That's a fallacious ad hominem attack though. You can find the Bible online, should we conclude we can't trust the Bible?

Also, your aversion to signs and wonders is completely contrary to Jesus' own position on the matter and the Bible in general. When John the Baptist was feeling skeptical about the authenticity of Jesus, look at what Jesus said to John's disciples in order to convince him:

Matthew 11:2-6
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?” 4 Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 6 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

And look at what the apostle Paul says:

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

And what Jesus promised regarding his disciples:

Mark 16:15-18
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Acts 1:7-8
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

LoveGodsWord said:
The Egyptian magicians could also make snakes and who gave them their power?
Click to expand...

Conversely, Jesus performed many miracles and the Pharisees claimed that everything was from the devil. It's a matter of discernment my friend.

LoveGodsWord said:
May God bless you as you seek him through his Word
Click to expand...

Thanks.

LoveGodsWord said:
Ignoring it does not make it disappear.
Click to expand...

Nor misinterpreting it makes it say what it doesn't.
 
Last edited:
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0
LoveGodsWord

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
I provided empirical evidence clearly showing that we don't see Sabbath-keeping as a widespread outcome of most revivals throughout history, which clearly contradicts your hypothesis that breaking the Sabbath is immoral. If breaking the Sabbath were in fact a direct ticket to Hell and as immoral as killing, raping or fornicating, then by all means you should expect the Holy Spirit to be quickly convicting people of such a terrible sin and leading them to keep the Sabbath, but we fail to see that happening in pretty much all revivals. In lots of revivals you see people abandoning all types of sins, but Sabbath keeping? nowhere to be seen. I even illustrated the point providing more details about two particular revivals (that were in fact connected to each other): the Argentine Revival and the Brownsville Revival (read post #26 again if you missed it). These two revivals are astonishing by their magnitude and the testimonies you can come across in each one. But what about Sabbath-keeping in these two revivals? Uhmmm ... nothing much really.
Click to expand...
You are making me wonder if you are reading the scriptures in the posts that have been provided to you as you have not addressed the content of these posts and scriptures that disagree with you. Sorry dear friend but you did not provide any empirical evidence that remotely shows that Sabbath keeping is not a requirement for God's people in the new covenant. The empirical evidence that has already been provided to you is God's Word and we can also add to God's Word historical records. For example all of God's people from Genesis to Revelation, from JESUS and the Apostles in the new covenant to after their death to the early disciples and Christians in the 1st century to this very present day today, Gods people have always kept God's 4th commandment Sabbath unbroken according to the scriptures. So please do not pretend that you have provided empirical evidence when you have not provided any. As posted earlier according to the scriptures God's people are not the majority they are the minority that believe and follow God's Word.
TruthSeek3r said:
Stop denying the evidence. Your hypothesis about the Sabbath makes predictions, and when tested against empirical evidence it fails the test.
Click to expand...
You have not provided any evidence. You have only provided strawman arguments that are not support by the scriptures. What evidence have you provided that God's Sabbath is not a requirement for God's people in the new covenant? - Nothing. I have provided no Hypothesis. You have only been provided real empirical evidence showing that God's people all through time have always kept God's 4th commandment as a Holy day. This has already been proven in the biblical records through the scriptures and can also be shown through the historical records giving you two independent witnesses proving God's people have always kept God's 4th commandment unbroken to this very present day. I believe all you have done in your posts if people are following teachings that are not biblical is to provide empirical evidence of the prophecies written in 2 Timothy 4:3-4. The empirical evidence your not considering which is leading you away from the truth are the scriptures and the historical records both of which disagree with you. God's Spirit as posted earlier is the Spirit of truth *John 14:26 and works through the Word of God not outside of it *John 6:63. If the Spirit that is guiding someone is leading them away from God and his Word to break the commandments of God it is not God's Spirit according to the scriptures *1 John 2:3-4.
TruthSeek3r said:
I already explained to you in post #26 that I will eventually post detailed answers to your 300+ lines long posts, but you will need to wait patiently for that since studying a PhD can sometimes take up almost all of my precious free time.
Click to expand...
Great cannot wait, but I have heard that one before. You have a lot of catching up to do as there are a lot of posts and scriptures that disagree with you.
LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Until then we will have to agree to disagree. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.
Click to expand...
Your response here....
TruthSeek3r said:
I agree, but specifying what those commandments are is the controversial point in dispute. There are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we can find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments.
Click to expand...
Well this one is an easy one. You may not have realized it but my post above where you are quoting from when I posted "we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God." Is actually referring to Matthew 15:3-9 which is one of the scriptures posted earlier. The context is to God's 10 commandments and the teachings and traditions of the JEWS trying to make of none effect God's 5th commandment of the 10 commandment. Jesus states here that if we follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Perhaps you can go and read it. They are God's Words not mine. The application of the Greek to commandment or law (nomos or entole) is determined by the context to which it is used or applied. In this case the application is to the 10 commandments.
TruthSeek3r said:
I don't want to get too much off-topic (since this thread is mainly concerned with explaining the absence of Sabbath observing post Spirit-led revivals), but in an attempt to quickly respond to this:
The Bible is pretty clear in stating that the commandment to keep the Sabbath was exclusively for the Israelites, as indicated by Exodus 31:12-17:

12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. 14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”​
So I'm not saying that the commandment to keep the Sabbath has been abolished, but rather that its literal observance is a convenant sign between God and the Israelites. And guess what, the Gentiles are not Israelites.

However, in Hebrews 4 we are explained that there is a Sabbath-rest for the people of God, which is today, not the seventh day:

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.​
I encourage you to watch this short clip from Zac Poonen on the matter:
Click to expand...
No thank you. I am not interested to go to your website as you have not provided anything to demonstrate your teachings are biblical. I read and study the scriptures for myself asking God to be my guide and teacher claiming his promises in John 14:26; John 16:13; John 8:31-32; 1 John 2:27 which is a part of Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:11 to all those who believe and follow his Word. I am not interested in following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. This is a false teaching that is not biblical according to the scriptures. Your trying to make an non biblical argument here that the 10 commandments are only for ISRAEL. Yet it is God's Word (not mine) in the new covenant that says that God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word * Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13 as there is now no more Jewish believer or Gentiles believer as we are all one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29 and Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. According to the scriptures if you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is to ISRAEL *Hebrews 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Matthew 15:3-9; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
TruthSeek3r said:
What do you mean with "this"? What should I be worried about? I have answered each of your points up to here, and I don't see anything to be worried about.
Click to expand...
No you haven't. I suggest you go back and re-read what has been written to you.
LoveGodsWord said: ↑ God's Word according to the scriptures are a blessing if we believe and follow it or a curse if we reject it once given a knowledge of the truth of His Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31;Hebrews 10:26-31.
Click to expand...
Your response here..
TruthSeek3r said:
I agree with those passages, but again, they don't say anything about the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
According to God's Word not mine sin is defined in the scriptures as transgression or the breaking of God's law *1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. The scriptures in Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-31 were quoted to show that in times of ignorance when we do not know any better Gods winks at but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of Gods Word and we reject it in order to continue in known unrepentant sin God hold us accountable to sin (breaking anyone of his commandments). The context of Hebrews 10:26-39 is rejecting God's Word when he gives us a knowledge of the truth in order to continue in sin (breaking any one of God's commandments)
LoveGodsWord said: ↑ God's Word becomes our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures *Matthew 12:47-48.
Click to expand...
Your response...
TruthSeek3r said:
47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Wrong verses?
Click to expand...
Arr yes thanks, I was typing on the fly. Sorry it was a typo it should be John 12:47-48 not Matthew
TruthSeek3r said:
That's a fallacious ad hominem attack though. You can find the Bible online, should we conclude we can't trust the Bible?
Also, your aversion to signs and wonders is completely contrary to Jesus' own position on the matter and the Bible in general. When John the Baptist was feeling skeptical about the authenticity of Jesus, look at what Jesus said to John's disciples in order to convince him:
Click to expand...
Nonsense. All your links were not to an online bible. They were links to the teachings and traditions of men that are teaching to break the commandments of God. These teachings are not biblical and simply a fulfillment of 2 Timothy 4:2-4.
TruthSeek3r said:
Matthew 11:2-6
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?” 4 Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 6 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

And look at what the apostle Paul says:

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

And what Jesus promised regarding his disciples:

Mark 16:15-18
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Acts 1:7-8
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
Click to expand...

Conversely it is also written in the last days prior to the second coming...

Matthew 24:24 [24], For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The magicians in Egypt also were able to turn their staffs into snakes. Now how will you determine the real from the unreal? - Yep we are to try the Spirits with the Word of God to see if there is any truth in them *1 John 4:1.

Then we read...

1 John 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I am sorry dear friend but I know who I believe and follow. For me only Gods Word according to the scriptures is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9.

Thanks for sharing your view but as you can see from the scriptures, your view is not mine, so we will have to agree to disagree.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: SabbathBlessings
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
SabbathBlessings

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,126
4,255
USA
✟480,159.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
Not sure how you can prove that statement but anyways, let's read on ...



This argument is terrible for multiple reasons:
  • The very site you provided as your source has lots of contrary and skeptical comments showing how unconvincing it is.
  • By the same token, Pentecostalism has been around less than SDAs and has reached more membership. Pentecostalism's main sparking event was the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, and since then it has reached over 279 million members worldwide (source: Pentecostalism - Wikipedia).
  • Similarly, SDAs are not too far away from Mormons (about 17 million members - source) and Jehovah's Witnesses (about 9 million members - source).




Agreed. But again, this raises the question: what are the commandments that the text is talking about? And before you answer "the 10 commandments" (which obviously is what your are implicitly trying to say), let me remind you that there are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant we find new commandments, such as water baptism, the great commission, and Jesus' New Commandment. See this related question for more non-Decalogue commandments: Does the expression "Commandments of God" in Revelation 14:12 refer to the ten commandments on stone tablets given to Moses?
Click to expand...

I see you have a distain for the SDA church, your prerogative. I only gave a brief snippet of the Church because of the statement there is no revival. The church has been Blessed and having 20 million members who all believe in the Sabbath is wonderful. Do we wish there was more, absolutely, but we know the path is narrow and its hard to change the tradition of man when Sunday has falsely been kept as a day of worship as tradition, instead of the day God blessed and asked us to keep. The SDA church is not what is important, what is important is what is written in the Bible.

To answer your last question
The commandments were written with the finger of God:
Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

These commandments are different than the laws spoken to Moses that Moses wrote in a book. The distinction is clearly made in the 10 commandments that God refers to His commandments as My commandments as shown in the Lord's 2nd commandment

Exodus 20:4-6 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Also note, who does God show mercy to:

6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Similar to many passages in the Bible including the ones in Revelations

Revelations 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14-15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.


Here is a good example of Moses law
1 Corinthians 9:9
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about?

There is nothing in the 10 commandments about muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.

I hope these scriptures help. God bless.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: guevaraj
Upvote 0
BobRyan

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟912,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
Agreed. But this raises the question: what are those commandments?
Click to expand...


They would have to "include" the ones in James 2 where it is said that "to break one is to break them all"

They would have to "include" the unit of Ten where "the 5th commandment is the first commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit -- Eph 6:1-2

They would have to "include" the ones known to Jeremiah and his readers in Jer 31:31-33 statement about the NEW covenant and the Law of God written on the heart

They would have to "include" the one mentioned in Isaiah 66:23 where for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

They would have to include the ones mentioned by Christ in Matthew 19 where when He say "Keep the Commandments" and is specifically asked "Which ones" -- He gives a list

(A list that does not include "do not take God's name in vain" --- but we get the idea)

TruthSeek3r said:
And before you answer "the 10 commandments".. let me remind you that there are 613 commandments in the Old Covenant
Click to expand...

And there are 1050 commandment in the New Testament. ... "What is the limit" set for God?
1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International.

 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: SabbathBlessings and guevaraj
Upvote 0
BobRyan

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟912,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
TruthSeek3r said:
I think by now it should be quite clear how important it is for a Christian to walk guided and empowered by the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

We can also see that scripture is the direct work of the Holy Spirit

2 Peter 1
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.


Notice that when quoting the OT - it is in the form "The Holy Spirit says"
Heb 3:
7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today if you hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,

And of course that Holy Spirit tells us this in 1 Tim 3:16
2 Tim 3: 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, (NKJV)

The saints are described this way by the Holy Spirit in Rev 14
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So then I would expect to see God raising up prophets and giving them the message to keep Sabbath as the Bible says. In fact - getting that message sent out world-wide.


Angels claim fellowship with us in that regard

Rev 19: 10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

1 Cor 14: Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

TruthSeek3r said:
Now, back to the Sabbath. If not observing the Sabbath is as immoral as raping, killing, stealing or fornication,...
Click to expand...

If "taking God's name in vain" is "as immoral as"...(raping,killing,stealing...)

Then we should expect the Holy Spirit to quickly lead people into keeping the TEN Commandments where "To break one is to break them all" James 2

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

TruthSeek3r said:
then we should expect the Holy Spirit to quickly lead people into Sabbath observance. In particular, during a
Click to expand...
TruthSeek3r said:
Holy Spirit revival, where the Holy Spirit moves touching many people's hearts and leading them into repentance and salvation (take Acts 2 as an example), one should expect to see a widespread adoption of Sabbath observance
Click to expand...

Acts 2 is a case of the feast of Pentecost attended by zillions of Sabbath-keeping Jews.

Details matter in this case.

On a certain Sabbath - Newly converted gentiles in Acts 13 -- asking for more gospel preaching to be presented "Next Sabbath"

Acts 13

42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God.

44 The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. 46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

So in Acts 2 - we have that evangelism revival - going to Sabbath-keeping Jews.

In Acts 13 - we have Sabbath keeping gentiles/proselytes hearing and accepting the Gospel and asking for more Gospel on "the next Sabbath".



TruthSeek3r said:
Lastly, it looks like you completely ignored the OP's question, so I will restate it to help you remember it:

How come that in so many revivals throughout history we do not see the Holy Spirit leading people toward the widespread observance of the Sabbath (from Friday evening to Saturday evening)?​
Click to expand...

You chose to include the work of the Holy Spirit in your thread content. I am simply showing how Sabbath observance is indeed part of the vast Holy Spirit lead evangelistic movement / revival movement in Acts 2 and in outreach evangelism to gentiles in Acts 13 and 17 and 18:4 ... how that is "off topic" or not addressing the point -- is a bit of a mystery.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: SabbathBlessings
Upvote 0
T

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Studyman said:
You omitted an important scripture from the rock Jesus built His Curch on.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Click to expand...

Agreed. No problem with this scripture. Thanks for sharing.

Studyman said:
And again;

Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Click to expand...

No problem with this scripture either. Thanks for sharing.

Studyman said:
This "broad way" that "many" are on, Do you believe the leaders of this way are declaring "Come, follow us on this path that leads to destruction"?

Or are they false teachers, who declare, "Come follow us on the path to eternal life"?
Click to expand...
I would incline for the latter.

Studyman said:
As for all these historical religious events, didn't the Christ already warn His People about them?

Jer. 6: 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
Click to expand...

You would need to prove that though. You would need to prove in a case-by-case basis that each of the OP's revivals is a concrete example of people saying "We will not walk therein", which would be a pretty difficult task to do in my opinion, since by context Jeremiah 6 is talking about Jerusalem under siege, not modern revivals.

Studyman said:
Consider the following Word's of Jesus;

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Click to expand...
No problem with this scripture, although it would've been helpful if you had provided the reason for sentences in bold/red.

Studyman said:
These men who no longer walked with Jesus, Do you believe they became Atheists? Or did they just create their own religion more suitable to them?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I don't know if there is any way to know either. Answering this would be sheer speculation.

Studyman said:
What spirit was on them?
Click to expand...
Since they rejected Jesus, not the Holy Spirit for sure.

Studyman said:
These are all important Scriptures to consider when asking why Jesus walked in the Sabbath of God but all these other religious men did not.
Click to expand...

I agree that all the scriptures you shared above are important, but none of them mentions the Sabbath, so I'm not sure how you are making the connection. Also, whom do you mean by "all these other religious men"?

Studyman said:
Jesus Himself may have the answer to your questions regarding the Sabbath.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So iniquity is serious stuff it seems.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Therefore, an important question to answer: what is iniquity?

Studyman said:
Who shall we go to, in order to find our what God's Deems is iniquity?

Those walking in the "Broad way" followed by "many"? Or shall we blot out the "other voice" in the garden and follow Peter's instructions?

As Jesus Himself said;

"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by Every Word which proceeds from the Mouth of God"
Click to expand...
Between people walking the "Broad way" and the word of God, the word of God for sure.

Studyman said:
Food for thought.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Thanks for sharing.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
T

TruthSeek3r

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2020
1,593
509
Capital
✟128,643.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
eleos1954 said:
I believe the Holy Spirit IS reminding people about keeping the Sabbath holy (set apart from other days)
Click to expand...
Surely that's what you believe. No one is questioning that. Is it true though?

eleos1954 said:
that's why there is being so much discussion about it continuously.
Click to expand...
This argument is fallacious and can be applied either way in a discussion about a controversial topic.

For example, you can use the same argument to fallaciously conclude the opposite: that there is much discussion about the topic because the Holy Spirit is reminding people that they no longer have to keep the Sabbath.

Or think about other controversial topics, e.g., cessationism vs continualism. I could say "there is much discussion nowadays about cessationism vs continualism, therefore this means that the Holy Spirit is reminding people that the gifts of the Spirit are still for today".

In short: this argument is an example of a non-sequitur fallacy.

eleos1954 said:
Either we follow in the footsteps of Jesus or not.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

eleos1954 said:
The devil is always deceivingly distorting the word of God .... ie .... to Eve ...

Did God really say ...

Genesis 3

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
Click to expand...
Sure. No problem with the verse.

eleos1954 said:
Did God really say .... remember the Sabbath and keep it holy (set apart from all other days) ....
Click to expand...

Yes, but it was given as a sign of the old covenant for Israel:

1) Exodus 31:12-17 (NIV)

12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. 14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”​

From this passage I understand that the commandment to keep a seventh day Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the Israelites. God established a covenant between Him and the Israelites, and the Sabbath is a sign of that covenant.

2) Hebrews 8:6-13 (NIV)

6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.​

From this passage I understand that, due to Israel's disobedience, the old covenant has become obsolete and has been replaced by a new covenant with Jesus as its mediator.

3) Hebrews 4:1-11 (NIV)

Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.​

From this passage I understand that the Israelites, due to their disobedience, were not able to enter God's rest. However, those who believe (Christians) can enter that Sabbath-rest, no longer each seventh day, but today (a sort of "present moment" rest).

In short, from these 3 passages I conclude that:
  1. The mandate to keep a seventh day Sabbath was given to the Israelites as a sign of the old covenant.
  2. The old covenant is obsolete and has been replaced with a new covenant mediated by Jesus.
  3. Christians in the new covenant can enter a Sabbath-rest in the present moment ("today").
  4. Therefore, the commandment to keep a literal physical rest every seventh day is obsolete.

eleos1954 said:
Same ole tactics being used by satan ... cast doubt on the Word of God.
Click to expand...
Sure, but being aware of the fact doesn't help in deciding which position in the controversy is right.

eleos1954 said:
Jesus is our example to follow ... He kept the 7th day Sabbath, declared He is Lord over it .... even in His death He rested in the grave.
Click to expand...

I agree, but you have to be aware that:

1) Jesus was under the old covenant, so of course he had to obey it (which he did perfectly).

2) The argument "If Jesus did it, we have to do it" can also be applied to many other things. For example:
  • Circumcision (Jesus was literally, physically circumcised): Should we get literally, physically circumcised too?
  • Rosh Chodesh (New Moons): Jesus obeyed the whole Law, so he definitely observed Rosh Chodesh. Do you keep Rosh Chodesh each month?
  • Jesus healed the sick: do you heal the sick?
  • Jesus cast out demons: do you cast out demons?
  • Jesus fasted for 40 days and came back in the power of the Spirit: have you fasted for 40 days? Did you come back after that fast in the power of the Spirit?
  • Jesus raised the dead: do you raise the dead?
  • Jesus performed lots of miracles: do you perform miracles?
  • Jesus walked on water: do you walk on water?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Christfollower7
Obey the Sabbath!
Replies
36
Views
723
Christian Philosophy & Ethics
Bob S
Bob S
Kokavkrystallos
The Crucifixion Not Friday
Replies
52
Views
934
General Theology
cfposter
C
reddogs
How Easter was used to replace the Sabbath
Replies
44
Views
809
Sabbath and The Law
Bob S
Bob S
tonychanyt
Jesus ate the Paschal lamb before he was crucified
Replies
8
Views
223
Bibliology & Hermeneutics
AFrazier
AFrazier
Christsfreeservant
The Heir of All Things
Replies
1
Views
148
Daily Devotionals
keepitsimple144
K
Top Bottom
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Jump to latest Follow Reply