White Christians to blame for fires in West

ZNP · Oct 6, 2020

Oregon is burning while most white Christians deny climate science – Baptist News Global

Sorry about the provocative title, hard to encapsulate what she says in a brief way.

White Christians and climate change
Many Christians, especially white Christians, have embraced denial of climate science. Just over half of white mainline Protestants agree that climate change is a crisis or major problem. Only 44% of white evangelicals say the same. Nearly a quarter say it’s not a problem at all.

Despite the overwhelming scientific consensus on the role of human activity in climate change, only about 40% of white mainline Protestants, 45% of white Catholics, and 28% of white evangelicals accept this fact.

Not surprisingly, more than 70% of Democrats accept that human activity causes climate change, while only 22% of Republicans do. Scholars suggest that politics more than religion may drive these beliefs, especially in such a partisan context as we presently have.

Her numbers are very confusing to me, as are her sources. When I click on the links it seems the polls do not say what she interprets them as saying. For example, the question is to list the most important issues to you in order and Climate change comes in around 5th. For someone who has to pay for college and is going broke or who doesn't have health insurance you can easily understand why those two would rank higher.

Another poll she quoted said 81% of Americans favored stronger regulation aimed at Climate change and only 14% opposed.

Yet somehow she concludes from this that the problem is that "most white Christians" have turned away from this issue. She lives and works in Oregon, identifies as a Baptist, and is white (based on her picture).

Aldebaran · Oct 6, 2020

ZNP said:
Oregon is burning while most white Christians deny climate science – Baptist News Global

Sorry about the provocative title, hard to encapsulate what she says in a brief way.

White Christians and climate change
Many Christians, especially white Christians, have embraced denial of climate science. Just over half of white mainline Protestants agree that climate change is a crisis or major problem. Only 44% of white evangelicals say the same. Nearly a quarter say it’s not a problem at all.

Despite the overwhelming scientific consensus on the role of human activity in climate change, only about 40% of white mainline Protestants, 45% of white Catholics, and 28% of white evangelicals accept this fact.

Not surprisingly, more than 70% of Democrats accept that human activity causes climate change, while only 22% of Republicans do. Scholars suggest that politics more than religion may drive these beliefs, especially in such a partisan context as we presently have.

Her numbers are very confusing to me, as are her sources. When I click on the links it seems the polls do not say what she interprets them as saying. For example, the question is to list the most important issues to you in order and Climate change comes in around 5th. For someone who has to pay for college and is going broke or who doesn't have health insurance you can easily understand why those two would rank higher.

Another poll she quoted said 81% of Americans favored stronger regulation aimed at Climate change and only 14% opposed.

Yet somehow she concludes from this that the problem is that "most white Christians" have turned away from this issue. She lives and works in Oregon, identifies as a Baptist, and is white (based on her picture).

She comes from the side of identity politics:

"COVID-19 has made health disparities across race, class and gender glaringly visible, and climate change will only exacerbate those disparities if we do not address the systems and practices that contribute to inequality, injustice and climate change. The disturbing link between white evangelical support for Trump and disregard for climate change that disproportionately affects poor people of color around the world should probably not be all that surprising. After all, as religious and Africana studies professor Anthea Butler points out, “Modern evangelicals’ support for this president cannot be separated from the history of evangelicals’ participation in and support for racist structures in America.”

I sure wouldn't want to be listening to any of her sermons when I desire to be closer to God.

Albion · Oct 6, 2020

ZNP said:
Sorry about the provocative title, hard to encapsulate what she says in a brief way.

White Christians and climate change
Many Christians, especially white Christians, have embraced denial of climate science. Just over half of white mainline Protestants agree that climate change is a crisis or major problem. Only 44% of white evangelicals say the same. Nearly a quarter say it’s not a problem at all.

Despite the overwhelming scientific consensus on the role of human activity in climate change, only about 40% of white mainline Protestants, 45% of white Catholics, and 28% of white evangelicals accept this fact.

Not surprisingly, more than 70% of Democrats accept that human activity causes climate change, while only 22% of Republicans do. Scholars suggest that politics more than religion may drive these beliefs, especially in such a partisan context as we presently have.

I have to agree with your thinking. The case she makes is so imprecise that it almost amounts to identifying a problem...and then locating someone or other to pin it on.

-57 · Oct 6, 2020

I bet you we could put together a good list of...climate change...causes. Here's two.

Sun spots
Earth's wobble...

Junia · Oct 6, 2020

ZNP said:
Oregon is burning while most white Christians deny climate science – Baptist News Global

Sorry about the provocative title, hard to encapsulate what she says in a brief way.

White Christians and climate change
Many Christians, especially white Christians, have embraced denial of climate science. Just over half of white mainline Protestants agree that climate change is a crisis or major problem. Only 44% of white evangelicals say the same. Nearly a quarter say it’s not a problem at all.

Despite the overwhelming scientific consensus on the role of human activity in climate change, only about 40% of white mainline Protestants, 45% of white Catholics, and 28% of white evangelicals accept this fact.

Not surprisingly, more than 70% of Democrats accept that human activity causes climate change, while only 22% of Republicans do. Scholars suggest that politics more than religion may drive these beliefs, especially in such a partisan context as we presently have.

Her numbers are very confusing to me, as are her sources. When I click on the links it seems the polls do not say what she interprets them as saying. For example, the question is to list the most important issues to you in order and Climate change comes in around 5th. For someone who has to pay for college and is going broke or who doesn't have health insurance you can easily understand why those two would rank higher.

Another poll she quoted said 81% of Americans favored stronger regulation aimed at Climate change and only 14% opposed.

Yet somehow she concludes from this that the problem is that "most white Christians" have turned away from this issue. She lives and works in Oregon, identifies as a Baptist, and is white (based on her picture).

I
skin colour and race have nothing to do with climate change.

Tone · Oct 6, 2020

Here's a quote from my pick of the day. You can listen to the song through it:

Tone said:
Everybody's talkin' something very shockin' just to
Keep on blockin' what they're feelin' inside
But listen to me brother, you just keep on walkin' 'cause
You and me and sister ain't got nothin' to hide
Scatman, fat man, black and white and brown man
Tell me 'bout the colour of your soul

An older song that encapsulates how I feel about all this color talk.

What's the color of your soul?

ZNP · Oct 6, 2020

-57 said:
I bet you we could put together a good list of...climate change...causes. Here's two.

Sun spots
Earth's wobble...

Look, you have to blame someone with money who can then pay for whatever it is you want. Pointless to blame deadbeats like the Sun and Earth who will never pay up.

ZNP · Oct 6, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
I
skin colour and race have nothing to do with climate change.

Her article is like taking a baseball bat to a beehive.

Junia · Oct 6, 2020

ZNP said:
Her article is like taking a baseball bat to a beehive.

I
it is divisive

people are just people. Most of us are mixed heritage of you go back far enough anyway

Junia · Oct 6, 2020

I remember reading somewhere thAt many ?Americans have about 1/32 native American DNA, so I am guessing many so called whites would be considered mixed race

Halbhh · Oct 6, 2020

-57 said:
I bet you we could put together a good list of...climate change...causes. Here's two.

Sun spots
Earth's wobble...

Here is a helpful graph! -- here's the actual radiance from the Sun and the Earth's global average temperature during that same time period, on the same graph:
(note that the Sun's radiance on this graph varies proportionately to it's overall average by about 7 parts out of 10,000) Generally the sun spot effects on radiance will not matter much compared to other more powerful factors that must be happening over time we can see:

Is the Sun causing global warming? – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

ZNP · Oct 6, 2020

Halbhh said:
Here is a helpful graph! -- here's the actual radiance from the Sun and the Earth's global average temperature during that same time period, on the same graph:
(note that the Sun's radiance on this graph varies proportionately to it's overall average by about 7 parts out of 10,000) Generally the sun spot effects on radiance will not matter much compared to other more powerful factors that must be happening over time we can see:

Is the Sun causing global warming? – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

By 1940 the disconnect was apparent, and by 1960 that probably was the last chance society had to actually change the direction in a meaningful way. But it would take another 40-50 years to deal with the doubt sown by the oil companies before you could get political will to do anything. Now in 2020 we have much more immediate issues to deal with than to worry about taking action that will have little or no effect for 50 years.

Unless someone can suggest an action that 80% or more of the world will all agree to take that will actually help reduce the trend and not merely slow it down, then it is trivial and certainly will not cause any improvement for decades.

This is what I find so despicable about this kind of blame game. Does she actually point to some event that had "white christians" not opposed we would have avoided this? No, of course not. The common retort is that it wouldn't be as bad today, even if it hadn't have solved anything. But they have no evidence at all of that. Every attempt at reducing deforestation in the Amazon only causes the acceleration of that deforestation.

Suppose we had enacted everything the most liberal, left wing American wanted. Everything! No doubt our economy would have taken a hit, especially in California and Seattle. Maybe as a result the economies of those states would have been suffering bigger deficits affecting their ability to fight the fires. "But at least the climate change would be less." Really? The US represents 5% of the world's population. If we hurt our economy Mexico or China will step in and make up the shortfall using dirtier technology. There is no guarantee that enacting change in the US will have a positive impact on the rest of the world, it is certainly reasonable to think it would have the opposite impact.

DaveISBA · Oct 7, 2020

Halbhh said:
Here is a helpful graph! -- here's the actual radiance from the Sun and the Earth's global average temperature during that same time period, on the same graph:
(note that the Sun's radiance on this graph varies proportionately to it's overall average by about 7 parts out of 10,000) Generally the sun spot effects on radiance will not matter much compared to other more powerful factors that must be happening over time we can see:

Is the Sun causing global warming? – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

There seems to be validity to the belief the sun is the cause of global warming because Mars is warming similarly to earth!
From NASA: “In particular, the slight increase in surface air temperature is similar to climate variations seen on Earth, even though the processes involved are significantly different,”
NASA - A Gloomy Mars Warms Up

Junia · Oct 7, 2020

ZNP said:
By 1940 the disconnect was apparent, and by 1960 that probably was the last chance society had to actually change the direction in a meaningful way. But it would take another 40-50 years to deal with the doubt sown by the oil companies before you could get political will to do anything. Now in 2020 we have much more immediate issues to deal with than to worry about taking action that will have little or no effect for 50 years.

Unless someone can suggest an action that 80% or more of the world will all agree to take that will actually help reduce the trend and not merely slow it down, then it is trivial and certainly will not cause any improvement for decades.

This is what I find so despicable about this kind of blame game. Does she actually point to some event that had "white christians" not opposed we would have avoided this? No, of course not. The common retort is that it wouldn't be as bad today, even if it hadn't have solved anything. But they have no evidence at all of that. Every attempt at reducing deforestation in the Amazon only causes the acceleration of that deforestation.

Suppose we had enacted everything the most liberal, left wing American wanted. Everything! No doubt our economy would have taken a hit, especially in California and Seattle. Maybe as a result the economies of those states would have been suffering bigger deficits affecting their ability to fight the fires. "But at least the climate change would be less." Really? The US represents 5% of the world's population. If we hurt our economy Mexico or China will step in and make up the shortfall using dirtier technology. There is no guarantee that enacting change in the US will have a positive impact on the rest of the world, it is certainly reasonable to think it would have the opposite impact.

I

This is the problem. The US is being blamed when really they have much greener systems than many other nations.

Albion · Oct 7, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
I remember reading somewhere thAt many ?Americans have about 1/32 native American DNA, so I am guessing many so called whites would be considered mixed race

Senator Elizabeth Warren thanks you.

Halbhh · Oct 7, 2020

To Everyone --

DaveISBA said:
...
From NASA: “In particular, the slight increase in surface air temperature is similar to climate variations seen on Earth, even though the processes involved are significantly different,”
NASA - A Gloomy Mars Warms Up

Interesting! It shows a key effect also happening here on Earth. The report reads:
"...It appears a slight change in the planet’s [Mars] surface luster has caused its temperature to rise.
... The results of this research show that an increase in darkened surface areas may account for a one degree Fahrenheit rise in the surface air temperature of the planet...."

Surface reflectivity is called "albedo", and when a surface darkens (like from carbon black, etc., darker materials arriving onto the surface), it then absorbs more solar radiation. (the albedo (reflectivity) goes down, and the surface heats more in sunlight, as the surface absorbs more of the sunlight energy than before)

This changes affect temperature significantly.

This same process is very important here on Earth to our temperature.

Here's what's been happening lately! --

1) Infrared radiation is the invisible heat radiation you feel when you hold your hand near a warm surface off to the side.
When we have more CO2 and methane in the atmosphere they are powerful to trap more heat on Earth because they both reflect infrared radiation back downward towards Earth surface. They both allow regular (most) sunlight to pass through from above, down onto Earth, but then reflect the infrared the Earth radiates as it heats up back downward. (when there were less of these infrared reflecting gasses in the air, more heat could radiate out into space especially during nighttime in any area). This larger amount of CO2 and methane we have in recent decades causes nights to stay warmer than they would have in the past.

Warmer nights = help to cause higher average temperatures on Earth than in the past.

2) As Earth has warmed, more ice and snow have melted than in the past.

3) Also, because of the extra warmth, snow melted away sooner in the year and peat and vegetation became drier sooner and available to burn (sooner in the year, and then longer also) -- so more fires have happened, and for longer in the year, a big increase, including more in the far north such as in Siberia and northern North America

4) These fires produce carbon black which floats through the air and settles down to earth and that changes the albedo of the surface they land on, such as ice and snow -- darkening the surface. The ice and snow with carbon soot on them will melt even faster in sunlight, due to absorbing more solar radiation (reflecting less, absorbing more).

5) As more ice and snow at higher elevations and also further North melt from these causes, that also reduces albedo, surface reflectivity in the higher elevations and further North -- because bare ground or water are both much darker than snow or ice.

So, bigger areas of oceans become ice free than in the past, and larger areas of tundra become snow free, and then being darker, they absorb more sunlight than in the past when they used to be covered with ice and snow.

Therefore warming accelerates.

There are several feedback loops actually. Not just these 2.

ZNP · Oct 7, 2020

Halbhh said:
To Everyone --

Surface reflectivity is called "albedo", and when a surface darkens (like from carbon black, etc., darker materials arriving onto the surface), it then absorbs more solar radiation. (the albedo (reflectivity) goes down, and the surface heats more in sunlight, as the surface absorbs more of the sunlight energy than before)

So then white christians are not to blame, they reflect more sunlight back to space.

Albion · Oct 7, 2020

ZNP said:
So then white christians are not to blame, they reflect more sunlight back to space.

...and thereby are invaluable in the fight against Global Warming?

Halbhh · Oct 7, 2020

ZNP said:
So then white christians are not to blame, they reflect more sunlight back to space.

Junia · Oct 7, 2020

Albion said:
Senator Elizabeth Warren thanks you.[/QUOTE

Albion said:

Senator Elizabeth Warren thanks you.

Click to expand...

Lol

Seriously though, the fact that we are mostly all mixed race in terms of DNA means this whole colour division thing is stupid...

We are just a bunch of mongrels. The USA is like the UK, a nation of immigrants. Racism is stupid because none of us are pedigree

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