Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

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helmut

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Israel was grafted out of the olive tree
Yes.

and the old covenant was cancelled.
No. He is superseded by a new covenant, but the old covenant is not cancelled. Unless a Jew comes to Christ, he is under the law. When Jesus returns, the old and new covenant will unite, and all Israel will be saved.
 
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helmut

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helmut

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there are many annual sabbaths of the old testament that are not related to God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandment
Who says so? Is there any scriptural evidence that the 4th commandment does not refer to all the Sabbaths mentioned in the Pentateuch?

Is there any verse in the Bible that says the weekly Sabbath is higher than the annual sabbaths?

And is there any scriptural evidence (not just the opinion of men) that the sabbaths Col 2:16 do not include the weekly sabbath?
 
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helmut

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So why do you refer to a "sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets" when the text does not mention a seventh day?
The KJV (and maybe other versions) mention a Sabbath here. in Hebrew, there is not the wort "shabbat", but rather another word, derived from shabbat.

So it is a matter of (better or lesser) translation.
 
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helmut

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If you read my remark you should know I said nothing about the 10 commandments. The sabbath of the 4th commandment is a day that predates Moses by quite a bit.
But it was made known only to the Israelites on mount Sinai. God's rest was complete after creation (Heb 4:3-4 the commandment on mount Sinai was only a shadow for the sabbatismos yet to come, Heb 4:9.

"For we which have believed do enter into rest"
 
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helmut

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This is what the Bible says:

1 John 2:14 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
The crucial question is: Is this about the commandments of Mose, or about the commandments of Jesus?
 
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helmut

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3) The other nine commandments are not “just for Jews.” God wrote “Ten Commandments” on stone, not just nine (See Deut. 4:12, 13; Ex. 20). Does “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply only to Jews?
According to Jews, there are only 9 Commandments, because the first word is "I am JHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage".

Unless you can say "I was brought out from Egypt by Mose and brought into the promised land by Joshua", these are not commandments for you.

I was brought out from a life without God by Jesus. The commandments I should keep are the commandments of Jesus.

5) The Sabbath commandment is for the “stranger” too. The fourth commandment itself says the “stranger” is to rest on the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10. “Strangers” are non-Jews, or Gentiles. Thus the Sabbath applies to them too. Read also Isaiah 56:6.
Why is it not included in the list of commandments Gentile Christians should obey (Acts 15)? Did the Holy Spirit, who participated in making this list (Acts 15:28) forget to mention it, or was he unable to lead the Apostles the right way?

10) Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles).
The letter to the Hebrews has even less Semitisms (unless we count the Semitisms in OT quotes, which the author did not dare to obliterate) than Luke, so this letter may also be written by a Gentile Christian.

Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, “On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side.” Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11). Both Luke and Paul knew it.
You did not quote why they went there:
Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath day we went forth without the gate by a river side, where we supposed there was a place of prayer; and we sat down, and spake unto the women that were come together.

They did not go there to obey the Sabbath command, they went were there was a Jewish service. Inside the town, a Roman Colony, there was no synagogue, maybe because the local authorities did not allow to build a house for "Jewish superstition" (see the accusation against Paul later in the chapter!), and when they went there, they discovered there was not even one man there, let alone 10 that were needed for a regular service. It was just a prayer meeting for the Jewish women and their "god-fearing" followers.

Had there been a synagogue, Paul would have went in there and preached, as he did in other cities (for the Gospel is for Jews in the first place, only as a by-effect also for non-Jews). Given the situation in Philippi, Paul just "talked" to the women at the prayer point.

So this verse does not show that Luke kept the Sabbath. Any other evidence for that?
 
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helmut

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And the ten commands are no longer the commands of God, in fact Paul makes it crystal clear that the law is meant only for sinners and the ungodly, and thus only applies today, to the unsaved, to show them what sin. Is, and not to born again believers, who have died to the law.
The commands now are the two love commands, that don’t require keeping any days, which is why the apostles chose to assemble together on the Lords day, in honor of the day Jesus rose from the dead.
What Paul says there was nothing new, even in the Pentateuch it is said the the function of the law was persuading and condemning Israel.

When blessings and curses were to be spoken from two hills unto Israel, the curses came from the very hill the stones with the law written (not engraved, lest one mixes them with the tablets of Sinai) on them. And Deut 31:24-29 makes it crystal clear that the law has no power of salvation, but just makes obvious the sin. In the statements you mention, Paul just explaines what the law itself teaches.
 
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helmut

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We know now by reading deeper and not by not surface reading the scriptures and by adding the context back that Colossians 2:16-17 is not even talking about God's 4th commandmen
"Deeper" is sometimes a camouflage for "discussing the obvious away".

You should not start with such deeper knowledge (in it is deeper), but show how Scripture tells this. Just saying "this is not about the 4th commandment" is not enough, you have to prove it (which you haven't done yet).

Repetition of unproven statements is propaganda, teaching is proving the things yet unproven.
 
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RickReads

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But it was made known only to the Israelites on mount Sinai.

There is debate about that. I`m inclined to believe the Sabbath has been known from the time of Adam.
I don`t think it was a secret.
 
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helmut

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Hi SANTOSO, yes no problem. I believe Hebrews 4:11 is a continuation of the contexts of Hebrews 4:1-9. The "THAT REST" is the same as the "MY REST" that those who did not believe the gospel could not enter into. The "MY REST" is "GOD'S REST" and this is already identified in the Hebrews 4:1-5 as the "seventh day Sabbath" of creation where God rested from his work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 and blessed the "seventh day" of the week and made it a "Holy day" of rest for mankind *Mark 2:27.
In the OT background, the rest is primarily the land of Canaan. Yet Hebrew states that this is only outwardly, the real meaning is spiritual - and so he can introduce the Psalm word about another rest.

In analogy, we should expect the real meaning of sabbatismos in Heb 4:11 a spiritual one, not the outwardly "keeping the Sabbath".
 
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helmut

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There is debate about that. I`m inclined to believe the Sabbath has been known from the time of Adam.
I don`t think it was a secret.
There was a post that showed Scriptural evidence that the Sabbath commandment was revealed on mount Sinai.

I looked into my Bible program and found the passage: Neh 9,13-14.

AFAIR, the posting also explained the "remember" in Ex 20:8 refers to the first introduction of the Sabbath in Ex 16:22-30.

Do you have any clue (from Scripture, or from archeology or so) that the Sabbath was known before Mose?

If not: Do you believe Scripture that says the Sabbath was made known on Sinai, or do you want to speculate against Scripture?
 
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helmut

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James and Paul said same thing about works but they expressed it differently. The English translation is easily misunderstood to appear to be two different positions.
What scripture are you referring to? I'd like to take a look at it.
You did not ask me, but I want to give an answer:

Paul speaks about whether works can save, and he strongly says no. read Romans 4 or Galatians for that.

But Paul also says that the faith is producing good works in love, e.g. Gal 5:6.

James insists that a faith without woks is empty (James 2). I add an example: If you go to a prayer meeting for rain (in a time of drought) and you do not carry anything to protect you from rain, your faith that God will hear and answer prayer is empty.

James has another example: Abraham laying his son on the altar as an sacrifice, thus showing his faith. We can see in Heb 11:19 that Abraham believed in resurrection - this conclusion draws the author of Hebrews from the fact he was ready to sacrifice the heir who would make him to a great people (according to the promise of God).
 
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helmut

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Colossians 16:17
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

What is the context Paul is referring to? Food, drink, festivals? Are these anywhere in the 10 commandments?
No, Paul has no fixation on the 10 (or 9, if we follow the Jewish custom, which has 10 words, one introduction and 9 commandments), he is with the full law. Just as Jesus, who never said which o0f the nine commandments are the highest, but rather said the other commandments in the Torah are the highest - so these commandments are higher than the 9 commandments from the Decalogue (or 10, if you divide them, as we Christians usually do).

He says "sabbaths? plural not THE sabbath from the 4th commandment.
Yes, not only the sabbath of the 4th commandment, but rather every sabbath including the sabbath of the 4th commandment. There no hint there or in any other place that the Decalogue is exceptional to such statements.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Paul speaks about whether works can save, and he strongly says no. read Romans 4 or Galatians for that.

I always find it best if you bring the scripture to the post and point out the part of it that you are referring. It's just that all too often people dont see the same thing in scripture... actually that is an understatement. :)
 
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eleos1954

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Does it have a signifivance that "very good" is said before God created Rest on the seventh day, but not after?

The significance is this ...

The Seventh Day
(Exodus 16:22–30; Hebrews 4:1–11)

1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2And by the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on that day He rested from all His work.

3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified (made it holy - set it apart from all other days) it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.

Hebrews 4

The Sabbath Rest
(Genesis 2:1–3; Exodus 16:22–30)

1Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it. 2For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.3Now we who have believed enter that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said:

“So I swore on oath in My anger,
They shall never enter My rest.’ ”

And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world. 4For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this manner: “And on the seventh day God rested from all His works.” (referring to Genesis)

5And again, as He says in the passage above: “They shall never enter My rest.6Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience*, 7 God again designated a certain day as “Today, when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God (not just Jews). 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His (referring to Genesis 7th day). 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest (that rest 7th day He created), so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

*Not entering His rest (7th day Sabbath) was/is considered disobedience.

The context of the passage is the 7th day He created in Genesis (the day of rest He created for all of mankind).

Mark 2:27

Berean Study Bible
Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Why is it not included in the list of commandments Gentile Christians should obey (Acts 15)? Did the Holy Spirit, who participated in making this list (Acts 15:28) forget to mention it, or was he unable to lead the Apostles the right way?

How about the Torah? The list in ACTS is the minimum a Ger Toshav should keep, they are the Noahide Laws. They would learn Torah as they went...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Who taught you that Rom 11:25ff makes us into Jews? No, Israel (the part that did not receive Christ) is blind by now, but when the time comes, the cover will be removed from their eyes, they will see and come to the Lord, and whole Israel will be saved. That has nothing to do with us Gentiles.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved.

Nothing in the use of "part" in these sentences implies we are this part. You are utterly wrong.

We Gentiles enter salvation, but as a separate people(in James terminology in Acts 15). Jews will have to cope with the question whether the Law, which is not undone by Jesus, has to be kept by them, we Gentiles are not bound to this law, and to burden us with that is no healthy teaching (Gal 2:14-18). We are not part of all Israel which is shown in Rev 7:1-8, we are the multitude out of all tribes, peoples, languages (Rev 7,10ff), and we will (together with all Israel) be his peoples (there is a plural in the Greek in Rev 21:3!).

What you say is close to replacement theology, which deprives the Jews from their inheritance.We have to see the differences between Jews, Non-Jews ("Greeks" in 1.Co 10:32) and the Church.

Hmmm Nope! God's ISRAEL according to the scriptures under the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word. There is no more hope for Israel as a nation anymore. Only Jews as individuals who believe and follow God's Word can be saved. Gentile believers are now also grafted into Gods ISRAEL in the new covenant, which is Jesus Christ, the "seed of Abraham". "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29) This is why Jesus said "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." (John 15:5).

There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise...

EPHESIANS 2:11-14 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

[12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

Probably enough scripture provided here for now.

If you need more scripture you can find more here...

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked

Sorry dear friend, it seems God's Word (not mine) disagrees with you.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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