There is only One Gospel

Guojing

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I opened a thread about the two gospel issue on another forum awhile ago. I got attacked and piled on by several members of that site. :sigh: hurt my feelings for sure and all the criticism obscured the truth I was attempting to present. But I did realize something. You can`t effectively dispute the reality that there is just one everlasting gospel (Revelation 14:6). No denial and I wouldn`t want to, Paul and the 12 apostles all preach Jesus and Him crucified. The Jewish, Torah observant church was extinguished and Paul`s gospel prevailed.
Much can be learned by studying what the Bible means when it says Circumcision and Uncircumsion. But it`s not worth causing people to falsely believe one is heritic for saying two gospels. It isn`t necessary to believe that there were two gospels.
I`ll never die on that hill again :doh:

The key is simply to understand that the word gospel means good news

Once you realized that, then there is no good reason to believe that God has only one good news revealed to mankind for the whole of time.
 
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RickReads

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The key is simply to understand that the word gospel means good news

Once you realized that, then there is no good reason to believe that God has only one good news revealed to mankind for the whole of time.

Yet, that is exactly what we end up with, "I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people." I`ve never said otherwise which is why I was sort of blindsided when I was attacked for saying two gospels.

I`ve never been a dispensationalist per se but I found circumcision, uncircumcision gospels to be useful, biblical terms in understanding how the New Testament unfolds. You add a little history into the mix and it becomes very clear what was going on at the time.
 
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Guojing

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Good news in either case, BUT two completely different AUDIENCES. Therefore two different gospels. That's the difference. Jesus was not the Messiah to the gentiles. Jewish Christians retain a measure of Jewishness. Gentiles never had ANY measure of Jewishness to retain.

God told David the good news that a descendant from him will be ruling from his throne in 2 samuel 7.

God told Israel the good news, after about 400 years of complete silence, that this descendant from David is finally here in the flesh, to usher them into that promised kingdom of heaven on earth, in Luke 1

Finally after Israel the nation rejected the messiah for the final time by stoning Stephen, God announced to the whole world the good news thru the apostle Paul that, all of us, gentiles or Jews can be saved thru believing in Jesus death burial and resurrection (Romans 11:11, 1 cor 15:1-4)
 
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Saint Steven

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The key is simply to understand that the word gospel means good news

Once you realized that, then there is no good reason to believe that God has only one good news revealed to mankind for the whole of time.
Exactly.
The good news is in direct relationship to the one receiving it.
That the Jewish Messiah has come is not the good news to gentiles. It's just news. That the Jewish Messiah has come to save gentiles too, is good news to the gentiles. (and probably bad news to some Jews, who want NOTHING to do with gentiles)
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Exactly.
The good news is in direct relationship to the one receiving it.
That the Jewish Messiah has come is not the good news to gentiles. It's just news. That the Jewish Messiah has come to save gentiles too, is good news to the gentiles. (and probably bad news to some Jews, who want NOTHING to do with gentiles)
not according to Paul in Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15-
 
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RickReads

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Good news in either case, BUT two completely different AUDIENCES. Therefore two different gospels. That's the difference. Jesus was not the Messiah to the gentiles. Jewish Christians retain a measure of Jewishness. Gentiles never had ANY measure of Jewishness to retain.

I don`t usually look at languages apart from English. It`s too much work for me but I made an exception because I`m interested in this conversation. I went ahead and researched Galations 2:7-8 in the Greek. It is true that the word Gospel appears once but it is called an objective genitive applicable to Gentiles and Jews. It`s like saying gospel the Gentiles, gospel the Jews. In Greek it isn`t necessary for the word "gospel" to be there twice. Galatians 2:8 in Greek affirms Peter as being empowered in his apostleship to the circumcised. Throwing the Greek out there doesn`t discredit the King James translation. This is just a one time excursion into studying Greek for me because I don`t find it fun.

In your case it`s a slippery slope to say "Jesus was not the Messiah to the gentiles". I know what Jesus said of course and he had a reason for saying it that I would enjoy discussing later on. For now,

"And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

"And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth."

"And in his name shall the Gentiles trust."

In the case of "Jewish Christians", Paul`s churches had both Jews and Gentiles in them. The Jews who believed had an option and some chose to live with same freedom given to Gentiles. Most remained Torah observant, Paul himself was Torah observant but it was voluntary not required. For this reason trying to make a hard division between the two is a losing argument.

You end up in pointless debate with brethren who feel threatened by the term "two gospel" and who believe everybody threw out Moses after the Resurrection of Jesus.
 
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RickReads

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not according to Paul in Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15-

I knew he was gonna get it for saying that :doh:

Matthew 15
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
 
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Saint Steven

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not according to Paul in Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15-
Explain if you care to. (rather than just throw out two chapter references)

Especially when we have seen clearly that there was a specific ministry to the circumcised and a specific ministry to the uncircumcised. Why did God want to separate the two ministries if there was no difference in the message? Why was Peter not sent to EVERYONE? Why was Paul SET APART to minister to gentiles? Set apart from WHAT?

Saint Steven said:
Exactly.
The good news is in direct relationship to the one receiving it.
That the Jewish Messiah has come is not the good news to gentiles. It's just news. That the Jewish Messiah has come to save gentiles too, is good news to the gentiles. (and probably bad news to some Jews, who want NOTHING to do with gentiles)
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Explain if you care to. (rather than just throw out two chapter references)

Especially when we have seen clearly that there was a specific ministry to the circumcised and a specific ministry to the uncircumcised. Why did God want to separate the two ministries if there was no difference in the message? Why was Peter not sent to EVERYONE? Why was Paul SET APART to minister to gentiles? Set apart from WHAT?

Saint Steven said:
Exactly.
The good news is in direct relationship to the one receiving it.
That the Jewish Messiah has come is not the good news to gentiles. It's just news. That the Jewish Messiah has come to save gentiles too, is good news to the gentiles. (and probably bad news to some Jews, who want NOTHING to do with gentiles)
I'm heading out to go fishing with my son and brother, I'll check in later when I get home.
 
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Saint Steven

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I don`t usually look at languages apart from English. It`s too much work for me but I made an exception because I`m interested in this conversation. I went ahead and researched Galations 2:7-8 in the Greek. It is true that the word Gospel appears once but it is called an objective genitive applicable to Gentiles and Jews. It`s like saying gospel the Gentiles, gospel the Jews. In Greek it isn`t necessary for the word "gospel" to be there twice. Galatians 2:8 in Greek affirms Peter as being empowered in his apostleship to the circumcised. Throwing the Greek out there doesn`t discredit the King James translation. This is just a one time excursion into studying Greek for me because I don`t find it fun.

In your case it`s a slippery slope to say "Jesus was not the Messiah to the gentiles". I know what Jesus said of course and he had a reason for saying it that I would enjoy discussing later on. For now,

"And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

"And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth."

"And in his name shall the Gentiles trust."

In the case of "Jewish Christians", Paul`s churches had both Jews and Gentiles in them. The Jews who believed had an option and some chose to live with same freedom given to Gentiles. Most remained Torah observant, Paul himself was Torah observant but it was voluntary not required. For this reason trying to make a hard division between the two is a losing argument.

You end up in pointless debate with brethren who feel threatened by the term "two gospel" and who believe everybody threw out Moses after the Resurrection of Jesus.
I'm not saying that the gentiles didn't seek Jesus. I'm saying that Messiah was promised to Israel. No such promise for gentiles. Jesus as Messiah only makes sense from a Jewish perspective. Therefore a different gospel message. One that suits the audience, whether circumcised or uncircumcised.

In fact, didn't the Apostle criticize the Galatians for receiving the circumcised version of the gospel, when they were uncircumcised? (a different gospel) Follow the word "accursed" KJV. (under a curse)

Galatians 1:8 NIV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Galatians 3:10 NIV
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
 
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RickReads

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Explain if you care to. (rather than just throw out two chapter references)

Especially when we have seen clearly that there was a specific ministry to the circumcised and a specific ministry to the uncircumcised. Why did God want to separate the two ministries if there was no difference in the message? Why was Peter not sent to EVERYONE? Why was Paul SET APART to minister to gentiles? Set apart from WHAT?

Saint Steven said:
Exactly.
The good news is in direct relationship to the one receiving it.
That the Jewish Messiah has come is not the good news to gentiles. It's just news. That the Jewish Messiah has come to save gentiles too, is good news to the gentiles. (and probably bad news to some Jews, who want NOTHING to do with gentiles)

This post covers a lot of ground so I will have to just scratch the surface. I hope you don`t mind me addressing his question but I just love this stuff. I don`t get to share it very often because I don`t like to be misunderstood.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

Jesus operated on this "to the Jew first" principle Paul explains here. Likewise, Paul went to the Jew first. Additionally, the book of Acts records Paul subordinating himself to the authority of the Apostles and the Jerusalem church. In spite of the Galatians clash they all worked together and Jerusalem church was boss.

Old Testament prophecy predicts the salvation of the world by the rise of Israel ruled by Messiah. Jesus came and had Israel converted that is exactly what would have happened.

The short story is that Israel blew it and God implemented His secret plan to defeat Satan which called for a path of salvation that does not include sojourning with Israel. So for many years you have two groups. Paul wasn`t really set apart because he operated under the authority of the Jerusalem council.
And the Apostles are shown to have visited Pauls churches, they surely shared their witness when they did.There are many scriptures that I should post here but it would overwhelm what I am saying.

For the moment this have to do,

1 Corinthians 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified
the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 3
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
 
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Saint Steven

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Paul wasn`t really set apart because he operated under the authority of the Jerusalem council.
This is what I was referring to. It was a separate ministry.

Acts 13:2
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
 
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Saint Steven

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This post covers a lot of ground so I will have to just scratch the surface. I hope you don`t mind me addressing his question but I just love this stuff. I don`t get to share it very often because I don`t like to be misunderstood.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

Jesus operated on this "to the Jew first" principle Paul explains here. Likewise, Paul went to the Jew first. Additionally, the book of Acts records Paul subordinating himself to the authority of the Apostles and the Jerusalem church. In spite of the Galatians clash they all worked together and Jerusalem church was boss.

Old Testament prophecy predicts the salvation of the world by the rise of Israel ruled by Messiah. Jesus came and had Israel converted that is exactly what would have happened.

The short story is that Israel blew it and God implemented His secret plan to defeat Satan which called for a path of salvation that does not include sojourning with Israel. So for many years you have two groups. Paul wasn`t really set apart because he operated under the authority of the Jerusalem council.
And the Apostles are shown to have visited Pauls churches, they surely shared their witness when they did.There are many scriptures that I should post here but it would overwhelm what I am saying.

For the moment this have to do,

1 Corinthians 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified
the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 3
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Thanks. I agree for the most part.

Interesting that all the Epistles were written to gentile churches, with the exception of Hebrews and James. Did I miss any? (see below)

And the content of those two books indicates a difference in audience. All can benefit, but each one speaks differently. (different gospel - audience appropriate)

James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.
 
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RickReads

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This is what I was referring to. It was a separate ministry.

Acts 13:2
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

Yes, and this is an aspect I haven`t commented on. Jesus and the 12 were sent to Israel so your contention is correct so long as it is properly understood. The Apostles absolutely ministered to the Gentiles but the office was given to Paul because the words of Christ speaking the words of the Father (sent only to Israel) made it inappropiate to give the office to the 12.

Paul held the office as bishop of the Gentiles but yet was subordinate to the Jerusalem council as seen in the book of Acts. They operated as a unified group.
 
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Thanks. I agree for the most part.

Interesting that all the Epistles were written to gentile churches, with the exception of Hebrews and James. Did I miss any? (see below)

And the content of those two books indicates a difference in audience. All can benefit, but each one speaks differently. (different gospel - audience appropriate)

James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

There is some debate on who Peter and Jude are addressing. Pauls epistles were surely read in the Jewish churches.

I`m taking a break but I`ll be back in a bit to comment on the Galatians issue and the Apostle James

Here`s a question for you and it`s a grenade. What is the difference between the two gospels? Not audience, just suppose I had both gospels right in front of me to read. What is the difference :scratch:
 
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I'm not saying that the gentiles didn't seek Jesus. I'm saying that Messiah was promised to Israel. No such promise for gentiles. Jesus as Messiah only makes sense from a Jewish perspective. Therefore a different gospel message. One that suits the audience, whether circumcised or uncircumcised.

In fact, didn't the Apostle criticize the Galatians for receiving the circumcised version of the gospel, when they were uncircumcised? (a different gospel) Follow the word "accursed" KJV. (under a curse)

Galatians 1:8 NIV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Galatians 3:10 NIV
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

There were two issues going on in the book of Galatians. False brethren (Galatians 2:4) convinced the Galatians they had to get circumcised (Galatians 5:2-3). It put the Galatians into a position of Jesus plus circumcision to be saved instead of salvation through Jesus. Jesus plus anything else to be saved is the Galatian error. It wasn`t a case of hearing the wrong gospel, it was a case of works for salvation.
Literal circumcision not "circumcised version of the gospel"

James and Peter are mentioned in the epistle and Paul had a dispute with Peter. But that occured at Antioch, Galatians 2:11. The apostles had nothing to do with the Galatians problem contrary to what some believe.
 
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I'm heading out to go fishing with my son and brother, I'll check in later when I get home.

I picked on Steve enough, this ones for you.

Who is James talking about below?

James 2:12 "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."
 
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I knew he was gonna get it for saying that :doh:

Matthew 15
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Luke 17:
24
For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other
under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.
25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Matthew 23:
34
Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill
and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,
35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous
Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Here is where the one gospel begins:
Isaiah 40:
1
Comfort, yes, comfort My people!
Says your God.
2 Speak comfort to Jerusalem, and cry out to her,
That her warfare is ended,
That her iniquity is pardoned;
For she has received from the Lord’s hand
Double for all her sins.

Jerusalem has received double for all her sins. 2 temples, 2 judgments.
Now the comforter has come.

3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight in the desert
A highway for our God.

Mark 1:
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
2 As it is written in the Prophets:
Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.


And Paul speaks to the gentiles Romans 11:13-32.
13
For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also
may obtain mercy.


Has the gentile church missed this? That Israel obtains mercy at their hand.
 
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Saint Steven

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Yes, and this is an aspect I haven`t commented on. Jesus and the 12 were sent to Israel so your contention is correct so long as it is properly understood. The Apostles absolutely ministered to the Gentiles but the office was given to Paul because the words of Christ speaking the words of the Father (sent only to Israel) made it inappropiate to give the office to the 12.

Paul held the office as bishop of the Gentiles but yet was subordinate to the Jerusalem council as seen in the book of Acts. They operated as a unified group.
Interesting that the ministry to the gentiles started with Peter at the house of Cornelius. And Peter was a major spokesperson in Acts chapter 15. (the Jerusalem Council)
 
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Interesting that the ministry to the gentiles started with Peter at the house of Cornelius. And Peter was a major spokesperson in Acts chapter 15. (the Jerusalem Council)

Peter held the keys Jesus gave him, he didn`t operate as a dictator but he had an authority that the others didn`t so the gentile salvation was revealed to him and through him first.

The 12 apostles were on a mission to convert Israel, then the rest of the world. They did what they supposed to do. Paul had Jewish enemies working against him but it wasn`t any of the 12.
 
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