Conversion therapy

FutureAndAHope said:

In all my years in church, I have never heard of anything like conversion therapy, in my opinion it is just another way to strengthen the ungodly practice of homosexuality, and weaken the church. The people who espouse it think it happens but in reality there are few, if any, ministries that do anything similar.

Click to expand...

conversion therapy can also be refereed to as reparairative therapy and in the Christian community it is generally referred to as ex-gay ministries

Quartermaine said:

being gay is not the same thing as being transsexual

homosexuality doesn't alter gender or gender identity

Click to expand...

I understand your view. However, where I work, there was a young lady who was "homosexual". She started a relationship with another homosexual female at our workplace.

Then, she had a sex change and considers herself a man. So, what does that do to the female homosexual that she is with? She is now with a man.. when she prefers women.

The possibilities are endless when you are on this slippery slope of corruption of the "Male and female, made He them".. combined with "He saw that it was good".


Whatever is done.. the number one thing should be love and accepting them as a human being who deserves kindness.

mindlight said:

Ardens current NZ government advocates abortion till birth!. So whatever they are saying on anything would probably prompt me to support the opposite point of view.

There is a difference between biological confusion and psychosomatic confusion over gender identity and / or sexuality. Short of rare occasional miracles biological changes are the remit of medicine. The church can help a person deal with their own reality in a righteous way and should do I think eg. encouraging celibacy.

If someone is trying to "pray away the gay" in themselves then that is their choice and maybe the church can help them with that or not but a simple ban on that help seems wrong.

Click to expand...

at the core of the issues is that those engaging in conversion therapy generally rely on junk science and blatant lies about homosexuality to push individuals, or more commonly push the parents into forcing a child to endure this "therapy".

Second to maintain an individual in so called "therapy" self hatred has to be pushed onto the individual. Self-acceptance has to be discouraged as such elf acceptance would prompt any individual to leave such therapies.

In the past 20 years the focus on conversion therapy has shifted from adults to children. those engaging in such therapies target children as young as age three because they are unable to refuse treatment themselves. the emotional and often physical abuse a child trapped in such treatment has to endure is quite horrific.

After all a great many people will help them come out the other way so it seems to lack integrity to prohibit gay - to hetro movement also. To say that a hetro - to gay shift is not damaging ignores the mental health issues, broken marriages and families that are often left in the wake of such shifts

Click to expand...

no one shifts orientation, people are what they are. Sadly some are subjected to years of abuse to the point they try to suppress who they are and pretend to be heterosexual. This level of deception is difficult if not impossible to maintain and eventually self awareness and self acceptance takes over. The damage you refer to stems form the attempt to force someone to be something they aren't

dqhall said:

The LGBT people have lobbied against anyone trying to convert them to heterosexuality or teaching that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. On the other hand they want to be allowed to teach and promote their LGBT ways and hold events. That is not fair as homosexuals are more likely to suffer mental illness, depression and suicide. They should not teach homosexuality while restricting those who teach heterosexuality.

Click to expand...

LGBT individuals are more likely to suffer from depression and suicidal but not because they are homosexual. Rather these things are a direct result of hate, discrimination and abuse that occurs over a lifetime.

Carl Emerson said:

We are at election time and the Govt has announced intention to ban 'Converson Therapy' for those who wish to transition back to biological gender. (Forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am no expert.)

What I would like to know is if this therapy is Christian based. (I suspect not)

I would also like to know if such a ban might prohibit legitimate ministries in the church from assisting such a transition.

We in NewZealand have a Govt. trying to lead the world in 'progressive legislation'

Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

Any form of brain washing is not the "will of the Father". Only the Holy Spirit can change a person through regeneration. Be blessed.

Carl Emerson said:

We are at election time and the Govt has announced intention to ban 'Converson Therapy' for those who wish to transition back to biological gender. (Forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am no expert.)

What I would like to know is if this therapy is Christian based. (I suspect not)

I would also like to know if such a ban might prohibit legitimate ministries in the church from assisting such a transition.

We in NewZealand have a Govt. trying to lead the world in 'progressive legislation'

Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

There is no question that homosexuals and people who believe they are transgender can come to faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins and 'transition" into a life glorifying God and living in accordance with his statutes.

These conversion therapy's have some successes and some failures. Government really shouldn't be involved. AA has some successes and some failures, I can't imagine government regulating AA out of business and yet that's what they attempt to do with therapy directed at homosexuals.

Carl Emerson said:

We are at election time and the Govt has announced intention to ban 'Converson Therapy' for those who wish to transition back to biological gender. (Forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am no expert.)

What I would like to know is if this therapy is Christian based. (I suspect not)

I would also like to know if such a ban might prohibit legitimate ministries in the church from assisting such a transition.

We in NewZealand have a Govt. trying to lead the world in 'progressive legislation'

Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

The same people who shriek hysterically for peoples' rights to transition need to be just as vocal and fair for those who wish to detransition or otherwise get help in overcoming whatever struggle they may have with gender identity or sexuality.

"Conversion therapy" can be based in religion (not just Christian, btw) but it can also be completely secular in nature.

These conversion therapies have some successes and some failures. Government really shouldn't I can't imagine government regulating AA out of business and yet that's what they attempt to do with therapy directed at homosexuals.

Click to expand...

Agree. Those deciding who may not be allowed to change are practicing their own form of coercion.

I completely support a ban on conversion therapy. It's been proven ineffective and harmful.

Redwingfan9 said:

There is no question that homosexuals and people who believe they are transgender can come to faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins and 'transition" into a life glorifying God and living in accordance with his statutes.

These conversion therapy's have some successes and some failures. Government really shouldn't be involved. AA has some successes and some failures, I can't imagine government regulating AA out of business and yet that's what they attempt to do with therapy directed at homosexuals.

Click to expand...

successes? no. the best that is achieved is temporary suppression at even that is at a horrible cost to teh well being of the person

Carl Emerson said:

OK my OP asked however, if the proposed legislation will ban churches from assisting those who want to return to their birth gender. I have Christian friends who are deeply greived and regret assisting their daughter to change sex - if all parties agree to reverse the journey, will the church under the new law be banned from assisting ?

Click to expand...

The church can assist by prayer and deliverance. I don't know legally how churches stand on this though in any country. I am not really familiar with how The churches in New Zealand operate in this kind of area?

It's a disservice, and very thoughtless (perhaps unintentionally so) to claim that a person who has successfully gone through conversion or restorative therapy, is merely "suppressed". Their experience and identity is not invalidated because you don't personally agree with it.

There are many examples out there.

I think the church should have a role in helping those who want to detransition back to their birth gender.

They could do this by prayer ministry, inner healing ministry such as organisations like Wholeness Through Christ or Sozo, where the minister prays and asks the Holy Spirit what is needed to help the person back to wholeness or they could try reading about gender dysphoria, what causes it, and how best to help.

It is important though If the church gets involved in anything related to complex mental illness they know about the illness and how or why it develops. Glib or pat answers from those with a tiny bit of knowledge such as "just repent" or "pray harder" won't be of much help, so best for the church to research thoroughly the diseases of the mind and then they may know how best to come alongside the individual.


I don't know much about how.gender dysphoria is treated but a! basing the above answer on my own experiences of mental health inn the churche s.

hope someone with more experience of gender issues can help.

I read Boy Erased (wish I could remember the authour) about a young man who went on a Christian conversion therapy course. It all seemed to be about salvation and being forgiven through self effort rather than coming to Jesus as they are and getting set free, which is the true Gospel. The church was very strict about all sorts of other things and this poor young man seemed to be treated as though it he just tried hard enough to repent and fix himself, he would be free

Quartermaine said:

LGBT individuals are more likely to suffer from depression and suicidal but not because they are homosexual. Rather these things are a direct result of hate, discrimination and abuse that occurs over a lifetime.

Click to expand...

the hate and discrimination starts after they come out as gay though. children aren't gay so I wonder where the root cause lies?

Quartermaine said:

successes? no. the best that is achieved is temporary suppression at even that is at a horrible cost to teh well being of the person

Click to expand...

There are any number of people who have claimed to be cured. I dare say they would disagree that it's been at a high cost to their well being. In fact, from a Christian standpoint eliminating this or any other sin is a great thing for our spiritual well-being.

Carl Emerson said:

I don't think the answer is in understanding the complexities of mental health.

I conclude that much of this discussion takes place because the church is currently quite disempowered. So the reason why authorities want to close down the church's activity in this area is because effective ministry is rare, and in some cases harm is being done.

The LGBT community seizes on this sad fact and lobbies Govt. to close down both the good and the bad.

Believers, the ball is in our court - would that the hem of His garment again manifest among us.

I have some thoughts about how we can see this restored but that may be better on another thread.

Click to expand...

I do think maybe the govt doesn't liken it because it tends to b a Christian based therapy. Not always but usually.

Few non Christian gays have issues accepting their orientation in this day and age. Only in Christianity, maybe Mormonism and SDA, and Islam and the more extreme orthodox Judaism is being gay s to seen as wrong. Secular society has few issues with it.

so although I don't like conversion therapy from what I have heard of it it see me a case of the govt attacking religion. Or Not weren't for that is why would be happy they want to ban it

Quartermaine said:

LGBT individuals are more likely to suffer from depression and suicidal but not because they are homosexual. Rather these things are a direct result of hate, discrimination and abuse that occurs over a lifetime.

Click to expand...

I am not sure of that. I may be celibate and not marry. I may not do homosexuality.

Judas betrayed Jesus by assisting the Sanhedrin in his arrest. Even though Judas was in with the in crowd, he lost all desire to live.