Are we sons or waiting to be sons?

zoidar said:

Is that, we are spiritually redemed as we confess Christ as Lord, for the final redemption of our bodies in the end of time?

Could it be said the same way, we are spiritually adopted into God's family as we come to faith (The Holy Spirit as the certificate of our inheritance - Eph 1:14), for the final adoption of our whole being in the end of time?

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The scripture says the Holy Spirit is our seal.

The seal is also described as being of a promise.

We also described as bought and paid for (a price) by the blood of the lamb.

So the redemption is like picking up all that was purchased on a set day.

It's all very specific, but I think the parable being used here is related to economic transactions. Passages such as the following passage give me that impression:

Jer 32:44 Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.

zoidar said:

Romans 8:23
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Galatians 4:4-6
God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

This is really confusing! Are we sons or waiting to become sons?

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It’s both. We enter the family as we turn to God and are justified. We remain in the family as we work out our salvation with He who works in us. As we demonstrate our new family lineage, doing our Father’s will, we make our calling and election sure, and the traits of our new family, justice/righteousness (primarily love) grows. OR we can return to and carry on our old family’s traditions, that of preferring our own wills to God’s as one teaching I’m familiar with teaches that Adam did by his act of disobedience. Obedience, born of love, is a hallmark of a child of God. Basil of Caesarea, a 4th century bishop, sheds light on this familial relationship:

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.“

And Paul also instructs his family members:

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.“ Rom 8:12-13

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

That ye may be the sons of God...

45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Matt 5:44-45

zoidar said:

Romans 8:23
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Galatians 4:4-6
God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

This is really confusing! Are we sons or waiting to become sons?

Click to expand...

The children of God are made manifest and approved by the fruit of the Spirit in them,
and in those whom they have impacted by the Anointing on their ministry.
2 Corinthians 10:18. For not he who commends himself is approved,
but whom the Lord commends.
Luke 6:44. For every tree is known by its own fruit.

zoidar said:

Romans 8:23
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Galatians 4:4-6
God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

This is really confusing! Are we sons or waiting to become sons?

Click to expand...

Depends on whose measuring; but there is a process involved in coming to who you have always been known of God to be, though there is no end to the increase of this truth; either the son of man is the son of God, or he is not ... it is a picture painted in countless ways throughout the scriptures, which was (according to Jesus) something a master in Isreal should have known as a beginning, or as foundational.

zoidar said:

Are we sons or waiting to become sons?

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An unregenerate person is waiting to become a son.

A regenerate person is an adopted son.

My life verse:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I've met a lot of people who like to pretend those last five words aren't there.

zoidar said:

Is that, we are spiritually redemed as we confess Christ as Lord, for the final redemption of our bodies in the end of time?

Could it be said the same way, we are spiritually adopted into God's family as we come to faith (The Holy Spirit as the certificate of our inheritance - Eph 1:14), for the final adoption of our whole being in the end of time?

Click to expand...

The part where you are saying "spiritually redeemed" does not use that verbiage in the text. I think some of the confusion surrounding this issue is very emotional preaching and impactful preaching that misses this nuance.

We are sealed when we receive the Holy Spirit.

We are redeemed when He returns to collect us.

It is also possible the contextual meaning of Redeemed in the bible, is different than the contemporary definition intuitively grasped through word usage.

zoidar said:

God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

This is really confusing! Are we sons or waiting to become sons?

Click to expand...

The verse says ARE SONS present tense - and there’s this:

Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you HAVE RECEIVED the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we ARE children of God,

Now we are spiritually sons of God.

When we receive our new immortal bodies, we will also physically be Sons. IMO.

zoidar said:

Romans 8:23
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

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If you take the entire chapter as a whole, you will have your answer. Verse 16 says, "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children." What we are eagerly awaiting for in verse 23 is the "redemption of our body." There is still something to look forward to as Christians. We are children of God and adopted. However, flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. Therefore, God has put "His Spirit in our hearts as a pledge of what is to come (2 Corinthians 1:22)."

Galatians 4:4-6
God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

Click to expand...

This is really confusing! Are we sons or waiting to become sons?

Click to expand...

Again, we see in this passage that the Holy Spirit has been sent forth into our hearts. That is another way of saying that we have been born again. Adoption in this sense is proof of our status as sons of God or children of God. An adopted child can never be put away. Therefore, we are sons through salvation, but we also have not fully experienced all that entails because we are not yet at home with the Lord.