Is the Day of the Lord exactly 1000 years as Premils claim?

Timtofly · Oct 3, 2020

RickReads said:
This is a description of the White Throne Judgement. Won`t occur until after the thousand+ years.

It is not. But that is the amil position. They deny any resurrection as the first. They refuse to claim people were raised from the dead and judged at the Cross, and are still alive today, because they cannot die twice. Everything about Revelation 20 is more symbolic than the parables in the Gospels, which they claim are all literal, or at least pick and choose which ones are literal to refute Revelation 20 which they claim is not literal.

These parables in the Gospels about the judgements happen at the Second Coming. The 6th seal is the Second Coming. The earth is consumed in fire at the end of the Day of the Lord, the Lord's Day, Peter is writing about.

The claim is that the Lord's Day started at the First Coming and ends at the Second Coming. An indefinite period of time, that has stretched into 1990 years. They deny it starts at the Second Coming and ends at the GWT.

RickReads · Oct 3, 2020

Timtofly said:
How many are left after every single parable? You cannot use just one. God's math does not work that way.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Scriptures like this one have to be accounted for. The days shortened to preserve some of the life on this earth. No need to do that if the world is immediately dissolved.

RickReads · Oct 3, 2020

Timtofly said:
It is not. But that is the amil position. They deny any resurrection as the first. They refuse to claim people were raised from the dead and judged at the Cross, and are still alive today, because they cannot die twice. Everything about Revelation 20 is more symbolic than the parables in the Gospels, which they claim are all literal, or at least pick and choose which ones are literal to refute Revelation 20 which they claim is not literal.

These parables in the Gospels about the judgements happen at the Second Coming. The 6th seal is the Second Coming. The earth is consumed in fire at the end of the Day of the Lord, the Lord's Day, Peter is writing about.

The claim is that the Lord's Day started at the First Coming and ends at the Second Coming. An indefinite period of time, that has stretched into 1990 years. They deny it starts at the Second Coming and ends at the GWT.

Hey you, I`m hardcore premil. just ask sovereigngrace he`ll tell you :doh:

Seriously I think maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The people who are not taken by the first resurrection are condemned. At the white throne they will recieve the penalty which is why the works are looked at.

sovereigngrace · Oct 3, 2020

Timtofly said:
It is not. But that is the amil position. They deny any resurrection as the first. They refuse to claim people were raised from the dead and judged at the Cross, and are still alive today, because they cannot die twice. Everything about Revelation 20 is more symbolic than the parables in the Gospels, which they claim are all literal, or at least pick and choose which ones are literal to refute Revelation 20 which they claim is not literal.

These parables in the Gospels about the judgements happen at the Second Coming. The 6th seal is the Second Coming. The earth is consumed in fire at the end of the Day of the Lord, the Lord's Day, Peter is writing about.

The claim is that the Lord's Day started at the First Coming and ends at the Second Coming. An indefinite period of time, that has stretched into 1990 years. They deny it starts at the Second Coming and ends at the GWT.

You are always hurling false accusations at Amils. That is probably because you cannot address the real facts of what they hold to. Do you reject the fact that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5)?

BABerean2 · Oct 3, 2020

Timtofly said:
How many are left after every single parable? You cannot use just one. God's math does not work that way.

What does Jesus know about it. He is only the Son of God, who will be doing the judging.

Apparently, you believe you know more than Jesus.
Please do not let Him ruin your man-made doctrine.

.

BABerean2 · Oct 3, 2020

RickReads said:
Why would his opinion about anything matter?

Maybe because there would be no modern State of Israel without his family.

Have you ever heard of the Balfour Declaration?

.

Timtofly · Oct 3, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
You are always hurling false accusations at Amils. That is probably because you cannot address the real facts of what they hold to. Do you reject the fact that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5)?

No, but you are avoiding the point Revelation 20 is the first resurrection after the Second Coming. It is not the first resurrection after the First Coming.

Do you not see the differences?

Timtofly · Oct 3, 2020

RickReads said:
Hey you, I`m hardcore premil. just ask sovereigngrace he`ll tell you Seriously I think maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The people who are not taken by the first resurrection are condemned. At the white throne they will recieve the penalty which is why the works are looked at.

I think all here misunderstand the Second Coming. The tribulation is not going to turn out like any of the teachings of the church over the last 1990 years. Theology is just guess work, no matter how many believers add their total belief "power" to a certain teaching.

RickReads · Oct 3, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Maybe because there would be no modern State of Israel without his family.

Have you ever heard of the Balfour Declaration?

.

It seems like unbelief to say that without Rothschild there wouldn`t be an Israel. He`s not their God and it`s not a valid reason to belief to toss out a bunch of God`s prophecies.

Let me show you how that pile of scripture you use can be wrong.

Romans 4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

If the only thing I accept is these two veses then I see works creating sin debt and a life of no works as the path to righteousness.

The only way I can correctly understand this passage is to reconcile them with other Bible verses on works.

Your view has the same problem. It clashes with a lot of scriptures, some of which I have already put up and you have to create alterneate explainations for a large group of Bible predictions.

RickReads · Oct 3, 2020

Timtofly said:
I think all here misunderstand the Second Coming. The tribulation is not going to turn out like any of the teachings of the church over the last 1990 years. Theology is just guess work, no matter how many believers add their total belief "power" to a certain teaching.

Unusual comment for a Baptist. How do you see the tribulation turning out?

Timtofly · Oct 3, 2020

BABerean2 said:
What does Jesus know about it. He is only the Son of God, who will be doing the judging.
Apparently, you believe you know more than Jesus.
Please do not let Him ruin your man-made doctrine.

I have been judged, so no worries here.

If you can sink or swim with your man made doctrine, how am I any different than you?

I was just pointing out you seem to hinge your doctrine and math on just one parable, else you would have included more in your question. Is the same batch of sheep and goats, the same wheat and tares? Are the sheep put in the barn as wheat. Are the goats burned up as tares? What is the barn? Who are the wicked stewards, the foolish virgins? Why use just one parable if some will still be alive after the vials to live at the battle of Armageddon. Do you think some humans are still hiding out in the mountains who are neither goats or sheep?

Timtofly · Oct 3, 2020

RickReads said:
Unusual comment for a Baptist. How do you see the tribulation turning out?

Day by day.

The Trumpets and Thunders are a continuation of the ministry of the Lamb in full view of God on the throne. This is the 6th seal. The 6th seal is also the completion and glorification of the church as presented to God. Then after the 144K are sealed the 7th seal is opened and the physical harvest is carried out by the 144K and the Lamb.

RickReads · Oct 3, 2020

Timtofly said:
Day by day.

The Trumpets and Thunders are a continuation of the ministry of the Lamb in full view of God on the throne. This is the 6th seal. The 6th seal is also the completion and glorification of the church as presented to God. Then after the 144K are sealed the 7th seal is opened and the physical harvest is carried out by the 144K and the Lamb.

So you believe the great tribulation happened in the past and we are already in the day of the Lord ?

sovereigngrace · Oct 3, 2020

RickReads said:
It seems like unbelief to say that without Rothschild there wouldn`t be an Israel. He`s not their God and it`s not a valid reason to belief to toss out a bunch of God`s prophecies.

Let me show you how that pile of scripture you use can be wrong.

Romans 4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

If the only thing I accept is these two veses then I see works creating sin debt and a life of no works as the path to righteousness.

The only way I can correctly understand this passage is to reconcile them with other Bible verses on works.

Your view has the same problem. It clashes with a lot of scriptures, some of which I have already put up and you have to create alterneate explainations for a large group of Bible predictions.

What we are looking at today is apostate Israel who have come back to a small sliver of Palestine in utter rebellion against God. The Church is true Israel today. The Bible clearly and repeatedly shows that we (the Church of Jesus Christ throughout the world) are the true Jews, the true circumcision (Romans 2:25-29; Philippians 3:3 and Colossians 2:11) and the true Israel (Romans 11:17; 11:24-25 and Ephesians 2:10-19) and the true children of Abraham (Romans 4:11; 4:13-15; 4:16-18; 9:6-8; Galatians 3:7-9; 3:12-14; 3:16 and 3:26-29) today. We have been grafted in! Scripture makes clear that upon salvation we become citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem (true Jerusalem), which is also called Mount Zion (or God’s Sion). We see this in Matthew 21:42-46; John 3:3; Romans 9:33; 11:26; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:4-6; Philippians 3:20; Hebrews 12:22 and 1 Peter 2:5-10. These unambiguous, explicit and repeated Scriptures make that abundantly clear.

RickReads · Oct 3, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
What we are looking at today is apostate Israel who have come back to a small sliver of Palestine in utter rebellion against God. The Church is true Israel today. The Bible clearly and repeatedly shows that we (the Church of Jesus Christ throughout the world) are the true Jews, the true circumcision (Romans 2:25-29; Philippians 3:3 and Colossians 2:11) and the true Israel (Romans 11:17; 11:24-25 and Ephesians 2:10-19) and the true children of Abraham (Romans 4:11; 4:13-15; 4:16-18; 9:6-8; Galatians 3:7-9; 3:12-14; 3:16 and 3:26-29) today. We have been grafted in! Scripture makes clear that upon salvation we become citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem (true Jerusalem), which is also called Mount Zion (or God’s Sion). We see this in Matthew 21:42-46; John 3:3; Romans 9:33; 11:26; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:4-6; Philippians 3:20; Hebrews 12:22 and 1 Peter 2:5-10. These unambiguous, explicit and repeated Scriptures make that abundantly clear.

Romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

sovereigngrace · Oct 3, 2020

RickReads said:
Romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Paul uses the image of “the olive tree” in Romans 11 to show that Gentiles have become part of true Israel. His olive tree analogy is deliberate. He takes this imagery from the prophets who likened Israel to an olive tree in Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10 and 14:6-7.

No one could surely dispute we are looking at an Israeli tree here. Paul carefully describes the Jews who have been cut off as “natural branches” and being of “their own olive tree.” This shows us that this is an Israeli tree that held Israeli citizens. If the “natural branches” represent natural Israelis, and faith in Christ is the criterion for partaking in “the olive tree,” we can only be looking at the faithful genetic seed of Abraham who embraced Christ. This is the elect remnant of Israel. It was this holy remnant that remained attached to the Israeli olive tree that the Gentiles who believed now join in this new covenant era. This fulfils various Old Testament predictions that through Abraham’s seed all the families of the earth would be blessed (Genesis 12:1-3, 17:3-8, 17:15-16, 18:18 and 22:16-18).

Dispensationalist John McArthur even acknowledges: “And so the new life which enables us Gentiles to produce fruit unto God is the covenant stock of Israel that we’ve been grafted into” (Is God finished with Israel? Part 2).

This olive tree, which currently consists of both believing Jews and Gentiles, is therefore the continuation of spiritual Israel, only operating now under the broader new covenant arrangement. Consequently, it contains the full number of new covenant believers regardless of race or natural DNA. This metaphor describes the incorporation of Gentile believers into a decidedly Hebraic tree. But this is no natural tree. We are clearly looking here at a spiritual tree, because partaking in its blessing and sustenance comes through the exercise of “faith.” After all, if it were simply natural there would be absolutely no reason to cut out natural Israelites simply on the grounds of their race. The reason for Christ-rejecting Israel’s banishment from the tree’s blessings was “unbelief.” The reason for Gentile acceptance was because “they” stood “by faith.”

If God had two distinct chosen peoples, then He would not have integrated the believing Gentiles into a believing Jewish tree. The phrase “wert graffed in” is taken from the lone Greek word egkentrizo meaning ‘to ingraft’. It comes up 6 times in the New Testament – all between Romans 11:17-24.

We should not miss: this is a conditional wording of Paul’s comments. The writer here qualifies this important statement by saying “if.” This begs the question: “if” what? He then goes on to explain: “if they do not continue in unbelief.” Now, this is not a unique promise! It is a conditional promise that lies before every single nation throughout the world since the cross. Israel is not prohibited from being integrated into the global body of Christ. They can be grafted into the good olive tree. The Gospel can once again be heard throughout the breath of the much-diminished country, but they must bow the knee to Jesus Christ in repentance when God speaks. No one can say with any credence that God is finished with Israel.

BABerean2 · Oct 4, 2020

Timtofly said:
Is the same batch of sheep and goats, the same wheat and tares? Are the sheep put in the barn as wheat. Are the goats burned up as tares? What is the barn?

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

.

BABerean2 · Oct 4, 2020

RickReads said:
It seems like unbelief to say that without Rothschild there wouldn`t be an Israel. He`s not their God and it`s not a valid reason to belief to toss out a bunch of God`s prophecies.

Let me show you how that pile of scripture you use can be wrong.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Counterfeit Israel:

.

RickReads · Oct 4, 2020

BABerean2 said:
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Counterfeit Israel:

.

After listening to some of that I can see why you are trying to use Rothschild to defend your view with. No Christian group I ever heard of looks at the third temple the way this preacher is saying Christians do.

The third temple is interesting to prophecy buffs because building it is necessary for prophecy to be fulfilled. It`s a precursor for the anti-christ and for the return of Jesus.Unless you want to believe the man of sin will dwell in your body you need to understand that Paul is talking about the temple in Jerusalem in this passage.

2 Thessalonians 2
King James Version

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

BABerean2 · Oct 4, 2020

RickReads said:
After listening to some of that I can see why you are trying to use Rothschild to defend your view with. No Christian group I ever heard of looks at the third temple the way this preacher is saying Christians do.

The third temple is interesting to prophecy buffs because building it is necessary for prophecy to be fulfilled. It`s a precursor for the anti-christ and for the return of Jesus.Unless you want to believe the man of sin will dwell in your body you need to understand that Paul is talking about the temple in Jerusalem in this passage.

2 Thessalonians 2
King James Version

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The third temple is found below.
I have seen and handled some of the stones.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The man of sin will be found in the Church.

You are ignoring Revelation 2:9, and Revelation 3:9.

.

Is the Day of the Lord exactly 1000 years as Premils claim?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Similar threads