President Donald Trump tweets he and first lady Melania Trump test positive for Covid-19

DaveISBA

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Jamsie

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Yeah, I don't understand that either.
tulc(just assumes the CF mods will take the appropriate actions as needed)

One is quite capable of not wishing the president harm, or death, while at the same time acknowledging how he downplayed the virus and mocked mask wearing... along with much disinformation. It is simply a matter of living with the consequences of our assertions, actions, and behavior...
 
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Bobber

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Doctors operate in sterile environments, which is what masks are useful in. Shall we wear masks forever lest any disease is passed between people? If a 99.6% survival rate virus causes this much panic it's hard to imagine justifying ever taking a mask off.
Exactly. So is society really willing to sign on to a world like this....FOREVER? I'm guessing a lot of people are going to start wishing they were born in a different generation a generation when people felt free.
 
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Redwingfan9

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Growth has gone down a lot since mask orders have been implemented:

View attachment 285608
In this graph, the higher the line, the slower the growth (the graph shows the number of days it takes for COVID-19 cases to double; blue is calculated based on daily growth, and green is actual: How many days ago did we have 1/2 the cases?)

As we can see, once the mask orders came in to effect around April, growth went down. In mid-June, they started repoening things too quickly and relaxing mask requirements. People learned their lesson, and re-implemented strict mask requirements mid-July.

Point being, by putting on a mask, we have this thing under control. Let’s look at a couple other graphs. As we well know, Republican governors have been more reluctant to implement mask requirements than Democrat governors:

View attachment 285609
Here’s how all states with Republican governors are doing in terms of COVD-19 growth. It looks pretty good, but let’s compare it to how the Democrats, who have been more strict about those pesky masks, have done:

View attachment 285610
COVID-19 growth has been a lot slower in Democrat-controlled states.
Despite mask orders in Michigan cases have more than doubled. Numbers are up in NY, NJ and PA in recent weeks, all despite mask demands from Democrat governors. My suspicion is that this is due to people moving back indoors due to colder weather. The masks do nothing but convince people they're safe while making government look like they're doing something when in reality they're doing absolutely nothing.
 
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jisaiah6113

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Eventually the repetition of it becomes the base, and then other baseless theories start referencing it for their base. Pretty soon we have extradimensional lizard people in control of NASA and Nazi's in hidden bases under Antarctica, when it's really the other way around.

I wonder about wacky conspiracy theories that liberals promote, such as Joy Reid on MSNBC just alleging that the President faked his COVID diagnosis.
 
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jisaiah6113

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I have found that there is very few places where the left don't have free reign... while the views that are more "right leaning" are stifled, ridiculed, censored, canceled or plain out deleted.

I honestly believe, under the right conditions, within a year you won't be able to say ANYTHING on the Internet that doesn't align with Left Wing Echo Chamber. It will be classified as "hate speech" and "conspiracy theories". It will be gaslighting to such an extreme.
 
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tulc

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If you're not gloating why would you make such an observation...are you a doctor? (snip)
...I wasn't aware my observation of something required my being a doctor. Does that mean your saying I was gloating require you be a mind reader? :scratch:
tulc(is honestly curious about that last question) :wave:
 
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tulc

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Tulc.. why are you making so many threads on this? This is not a good thing. We need to be praying.. I would have thought that would be your first thought.
Is there some reason I can't do both?
tulc(finds his praying helps more if he knows what to pray for) :wave:
 
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samiam

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Despite mask orders in Michigan cases have more than doubled.

Let’s look at just Michigan’s numbers:

Michigan-2020-10-02.png

Growth has been very consistently small; so it does not take that many new cases of COVID-19 for cases to double. Needless to say, I’m not worried about Michigan’s numbers, since doubling time is hovering around 100 days (i.e. at the current growth rate, we may very well have a vaccine before cases double).

What I am worried about is what’s going in in neighboring Wisconsin:

Wisconsin-2020-10-02.png

Here, we see Wisconsin has considerable growth again; doubling time is down to 35 days, which means, unless things change, Wisconsin will have a lot of new cases to deal with before a vaccine is available. The spike appears to be college students not taking precautions: Wisconsin COVID-19 Cases Rise As September Spike Hits College Towns
 
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Redwingfan9

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Let’s look at just Michigan’s numbers:

View attachment 285635
Growth has been very consistently small; so it does not take that many new cases of COVID-19 for cases to double. Needless to say, I’m not worried about Michigan’s numbers, since doubling time is hovering around 100 days (i.e. at the current growth rate, we may very well have a vaccine before cases double).

What I am worried about is what’s going in in neighboring Wisconsin:

View attachment 285636
Here, we see Wisconsin has considerable growth again; doubling time is down to 35 days, which means, unless things change, Wisconsin will have a lot of new cases to deal with before a vaccine is available. The spike appears to be college students not taking precautions: Wisconsin COVID-19 Cases Rise As September Spike Hits College Towns
I live in Michigan, spare me your graphs. When Queen Whitmer finally started opening things up in June we were at 200-300 new cases per day. She claimed it was "dangerous" to open up when we were at 500 cases in mid May. By August we were routinely in the 500's and these days 1000 new cases a day happens 3-4 days a week. All of this despite her unconstitutional mask orders that came into effect in July. The masks just don't work.
 
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samiam

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spare me your graphs

“don’t confuse me with facts” is not a way to have a productive evidence-based conversation.

Here’s another graph showing that Michigan is not a hot spot of COVID-19 growth, based on new cases per 100,000 people: Covid in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

When looking at a deadly virus, science matters. Facts matter; to discard facts and science about a pandemic can have very serious consequences (just ask Trump [1]).

But, if you insist on believing on what you believe, forget about facts, I don’t think you would be convinced if someone from the dead told you the virus is under relative control in Michigan because people are wearing masks. (Luke 16:31 comes to mind here)

[1] Trump, of course, is in my prayers. But he is a very telling example of what happens when someone decides to not usually wear a mask.
 
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tulc

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And you need to make a thread in a political forum to be able to ascertain that?
Nah, I post those so other people will also have information on things to pray about.
tulc(thinks others can use information as well)
 
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Redwingfan9

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“don’t confuse me with facts” is not a way to have a productive evidence-based conversation.

Here’s another graph showing that Michigan is not a hot spot of COVID-19 growth, based on new cases per 100,000 people: Covid in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

When looking at a deadly virus, science matters. Facts matter; to discard facts and science about a pandemic can have very serious consequences (just ask Trump [1]).

But, if you insist on believing on what you believe, forget about facts, I don’t think you would be convinced if someone from the dead told you the virus is under relative control in Michigan because people are wearing masks. (Luke 16:31 comes to mind here)

[1] Trump, of course, is in my prayers. But he is a very telling example of what happens when someone decides to not usually wear a mask.
Your graphs are fake news. I couldn't care less what self-proclaimed experts claim about Michigan. They can call it a hot spot or not, it doesn't matter to me. The fact is that since Queen Whitmer's unconstitutional mask mandate daily new positives have doubled here.
 
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samiam

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Your graphs are fake news.

Once you start calling facts “Fake news”, you can not know or argue anything. How do you know that those reports of the daily new positives are doubling are not fake news being created by the “deep state”?

This is where I will remind people that QAnon conspiracy theories are not allowed on Christian Forums. While we have not crossed that line in the sand yet, dismissing facts as “fake news” is taking us there.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that we can pretend anything is true once we don’t need pesky evidence to support our assertions: Perhaps total new cases have gone down since people started wearing masks in Michigan, but a completely invisible conspiracy went underway to create completely fake numbers about COVID-19 growth. There’s no evidence of this conspiracy existing, of course, since anyone in on the conspiracy is able to perfectly keep a secret, so I can’t give you any way to test whether or not the conspiracy is true.

For people who care about facts and do not dismiss objective truth as “fake news”: What’s going on is that while total new cases in MI is going up, growth has consistently been very low in Michigan, so while increased cases is a source of concern, calculated doubling time is still very high. NYTimes rates Michigan as a state where “new cases are lower but going up”. The most likely reason for the increased MI growth we’re seeing now is the same as what we’re seeing in neighboring Wisconsin and nationwide: College students going to parties without masks.
 
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Redwingfan9

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Once you start calling facts “Fake news”, you can not know or argue anything. How do you know that those reports of the daily new positives are doubling are not fake news being created by the “deep state”?

This is where I will remind people that QAnon conspiracy theories are not allowed on Christian Forums. While we have not crossed that line in the sand yet, dismissing facts as “fake news” is taking us there.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that we can pretend anything is true once we don’t need pesky evidence to support our assertions: Perhaps total new cases have gone down since people started wearing masks in Michigan, but a completely invisible conspiracy went underway to create completely fake numbers about COVID-19 growth. There’s no evidence of this conspiracy existing, of course, since anyone in on the conspiracy is able to perfectly keep a secret, so I can’t give you any way to test whether or not the conspiracy is true.

For people who care about facts and do not dismiss objective truth as “fake news”: What’s going on is that while total new cases in MI is going up, growth has consistently been very low in Michigan, so while increased cases is a source of concern, calculated doubling time is still very high. NYTimes rates Michigan as a state where “new cases are lower but going up”. The most likely reason for the increased MI growth we’re seeing now is the same as what we’re seeing in neighboring Wisconsin and nationwide: College students going to parties without masks.
You can manipulate graphs to visually misrepresent information. Raw data is raw data though, in that regard new positives have doubled in Michigan since Queen Whitmer's unconstitutional mask order.

I don't buy the whole deep state line when it comes to Coronavirus. I do buy that the self-proclaimed experts have no idea what they're talking about and have essentially made things up as we've gone along. For example, how they define a 'hot spot' is completely arbitrary. Their claim that 5% positive tests are bad news for a region is also arbitrary.

The fact is that this is a 99.6% survival virus that doctors have a fair idea how to treat. Those who die are almost universally over 70 with 2.6 preexisting conditions. Even for those over 70, 96% survive. It's time to have a serious discussion about ending restrictions on our lives but that can't happen when the media is making big money peddling irrational fear while withholding facts about the real survival rate.
 
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klutedavid

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Exactly. So is society really willing to sign on to a world like this....FOREVER? I'm guessing a lot of people are going to start wishing they were born in a different generation a generation when people felt free.
Which generation in history were people free?
 
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NoNameNothing

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You say you're praying for them and then you gloat? There will be many people like you gloating and even wishing for his death unfortunately but liberals don't start jumping up for joy yet! This may be something that ties Biden's hands! It would been seen in a bad light if Biden pursues an attitude of gloating and or attacks on the President while he and his wife battles this!
There are those who have been, by any means necessary, trying to destroy this President! There was an unsuccessful attempt to poison him recently! Wouldn't be surprised if this was a biological attack!
Just imagine though the sentiment and support for him after he and his wife's full recovery! Hey I'm 74 and Licked it so there is hope for all!

What an Evil Planet we all live on... People not just gloating, I saw somewhere on the Internet the"tweets" concerning this.
 
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samiam

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Raw data is raw data

I have some good news for you. The raw data for Michigan’s COVID-19 cases can be downloaded by anyone to look at and process: nytimes/covid-19-data

If you think the media is manipulating this raw data, I welcome you to look at this data and explain how exactly the graphs I presented are inaccurate, or how the New York Time’s assessment of the same data is inaccurate.

Until then, I stand by the numbers: Michigan is having a spike of new cases which may be of concern which appear to be caused by colleges opening again and students not being careful, but, since they do have mask orders, their COVID-19 growth has been very small and under control (as best as we can do to stop the spread of an airborne virus without a vaccine).

It’s easy to complain of “media manipulation” without presenting any evidence supporting this assertion. It’s a little harder to look at the real numbers and explain exactly how there is media manipulation.
 
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